08' RK - Clutch Slipping - or worse?

[Tacocaster]

Bit long-winded here but you should be aware of the backstory.

We all have "a friend" who reports unusual symptoms but this one....geeze, I just dunno...

Yesterday in my mirror near the end of a long, hot-day ride I noticed my buddy was lagging on long up-hills so when stopped I posed the question. "Yes!" he said, "And" - are you ready for this? - "if I roll-on the throttle, the rpm increases the but bike continues slowing and my "6" indicator goes out". "You're what...!?!?"
"Yeah, and if I don't roll-on the throttle the "6" indicator stays on." Double "What!?!" 
"Clutch is too hot to look at it today, see you tomorrow."

So, after over-night thought with no solutions in my tiny-little cranium for that, today I focussed on thinking his clutch is simply mis-adjusted and slipping but found the lever-play is adjusted correctly (1/8" play at the housing) and the push rod adjustor is backed-out 1/2 turn from lightly seated after releasing the in-line cable adjustor. So, we pull the basket thinking the fibre plates are gummed-up or worn but found all is good! Yikes! Could it be the fluid type? He's says he only uses Amsoil's three- hole synthetic stuff so now I'm thinking where he weighs 265lbs on a 700+lbs motorcycle and the slipping is evident only after the engine is hot, maybe the oil is too slippery when hot for his application?

I'm going to clean and re-install everything (awaiting arrival of new replacement Chain Tensioner) with new Redline Primary Chaincase fluid and ensure the cold clutch/cable adjustments are correct but my question to the forum is (assuming it's true and not a coincidental electrical issue):

"What could possibly be the reason for his "6" gear indicator to go out?" I can't imagine sixth gear slipping out of mesh without some associated disagreeing noise out of the trans. Too complicated for me ....

[Ohio HD]

The indicator goes out because the clutch slipping so bad causes the road speed and engine speed to be mismatched to the ECM for being in sixth gear.

[Coyote]

Sure sounds like it's slipping.

[Tacocaster]

For sure, Coyote, it's slipping and I do hope it's just the type of fluid and his application. I weigh in at 280 lbs on a 700 lb+SG using Redline with no issues so ....we'll try it.

Ohio - You're VERY likely right on!

Thanks Guys!!

[Coyote]

If it's been slipping very long he may need more than fluid.

[Tacocaster]

New fibre plates you're thinking. He's got a Drag Spec. clutch in there now and not a lot of miles but to add to that, he says it just started "doing that" - I'll have to question him further on his definition of "just started".

When we pulled the plates apart for inspection the machined "fluid" groves in the fibres were still easily visible with lots of material left and no digs or gouges evident. The steels and fibres didn't "rock" on a flat steel table-top.

[kd]

Bear with me on this please.  I am running 3.15 final ratio in a 2011 RGU. I use a GrudgeBox which has different gear ratios than the OEM 6 speed. 5th gear ratio is very close to 6th gear.  When I shift into 5th (1/1 ratio) the 6th gear light comes on and my cruise control functions. (FWIW cruise works in the other earlier gears normally).  If I use the clutch to shift into 6th gear the light goes out and the cruise control doesn't work. If I quick shift into 6th the 6th gear light stays on and cruise control still works. I can change speed settings or switch it off or on with the brake light or clutch lever and the light stays on and cruise functions.

My point in all that is, similarly a normal shift into 6th gear from 5th where the light comes on it is off the recognized rpm change (much the same as the OP description) and the light goes out.  If I shift clutch-less into 6th the ECM senses the same rpm change but the light stays on. 

In 5th gear (1/1) to 6th (0.92) gear in a GrudgeBox it is only .08 difference. In the OEM 6 spd it's 5th (1.19) and 6th is 1/1 so the light comes on.  That's 0.81 taller ratio. (Opposite to slipping)

My point is the GrudgeBox 6th gear is acting like a slipping clutch if I shift it clutch-less and the light stays on. It does not cancel the light.  If I use the clutch to shift, the ECM cancels the light going into 6th gear.  Is it possible the adjustment is triggering the neutral start switch in the clutch control (for starting in gear) because it is so far out of adjustment range? Orrrr, maybe in my example the GrudgeBox 0.08 is just not enough to kill the light?

[Ohio HD]

KD, didn't your tuner adjust the primary ratio in the MAP for the higher sixth gear?

[Hossamania]

Kind of getting away from the OP's problem....

[Coyote]

Bear with me on this please.  I am running 3.15 final ratio in a 2011 RGU. I use a GrudgeBox which has different gear ratios than the OEM 6 speed. 5th gear ratio is very close to 6th gear.  When I shift into 5th (1/1 ratio) the 6th gear light comes on and my cruise control functions. (FWIW cruise works in the other earlier gears normally).  If I use the clutch to shift into 6th gear the light goes out and the cruise control doesn't work. If I quick shift into 6th the 6th gear light stays on and cruise control still works. I can change speed settings or switch it off or on with the brake light or clutch lever and the light stays on and cruise functions.

My point in all that is, similarly a normal shift into 6th gear from 5th where the light comes on it is off the recognized rpm change (much the same as the OP description) and the light goes out.  If I shift clutch-less into 6th the ECM senses the same rpm change but the light stays on. 

In 5th gear (1/1) to 6th (0.92) gear in a GrudgeBox it is only .08 difference. In the OEM 6 spd it's 5th (1.19) and 6th is 1/1 so the light comes on.  That's 0.81 taller ratio. (Opposite to slipping)

My point is the GrudgeBox 6th gear is acting like a slipping clutch if I shift it clutch-less and the light stays on. It does not cancel the light.  If I use the clutch to shift, the ECM cancels the light going into 6th gear.  Is it possible the adjustment is triggering the neutral start switch in the clutch control (for starting in gear) because it is so far out of adjustment range? Orrrr, maybe in my example the GrudgeBox 0.08 is just not enough to kill the light?

I think apples and oranges. Your bike needed to be reset. The OPs does not. The ecm compares the running speed vs rpm to determine what gear you are in. There are tables that needed to be changed for your GrudgeBox.

The OP's case clearly has a slipping clutch which is why the R's go up with no speed increase and also why the ratio drop causes the 6th gear light not to come on. Also why on light throttle the light does come on.

[kd]

Yes, I know I need to reset the ratio table.  That's another story right now.  My point briefly is my light stays on with a somewhat minor exaggeration in rpm when I click it into 6th.  I also agree it sounds as though it's slipping by the description. It probably increases more than 0.08 to kill the light.

On another note it's probably worth mentioning (if not yet considered) that a thorough solvent cleaning and a light touch up of a few figure 8's on the steels and fibres using 220 or 320 grit on a glass plate will be helpful in reconstituting the clutch surfaces before reassembling.

[Timetrader]

Ifn all is good on the clutch basket side and lever as you say,id take a close look at the clutch rod, throw out bearing

[Tacocaster]

That's okay Hoss, thanks though, just the same.

I have my answers from Coyote and Ohio and KD's issue is interesting to say the least - and likely good fodder for others to gleam.

All good here! Thanks All!