Rivera Pro, soak the plates?

[76shuvlinoff]

Got a new clutch pack for my Rivera Pro that has 34k to 36K miles on it behind my 93" mill. I gotta say, using digital calipers I am not seeing significant wear, in fact it's barely measurable wear between new and old components. The old fibers are smooth and somewhat shiny but I might have gotten away with just roughing them up a bit. This bike barely gets 200 miles a year these days but I have the new stuff so they are going in.

  I've been running Redline MTL in the primary for years but Rivera says Ford Type F non synthetic ATF.  I will at least break it in with that.  I didn't see anything about soaking the discs and plates first  but I probably should.... opinions?

[72fl]

Mark I just changed mine just because it has been in there since I installed it years ago and I put ATF type F back in it as it was still operating at no issue's and relatively clean inside. I still have my install manual and it says ATF Type F so that's what I used and again Shifts like a Hot Knife through Butter, smooooooth. I can look shortly but I'm sure the install manual says to Soak in ATF Type F before install.

Mark here it is:

STeP 7: Soak friction discs in 'F' Type ATF (wipe away
excess before installation) lubricant for a minute prior
to installation. Install steel & friction clutch plates exactly
as they were shipped. Install the .120" steel plate first,
then friction, alternating until all are installed. Never install
2 friction or 2 steel plates together.

[76shuvlinoff]

Thanks!

[Hossamania]

I've always used atf with my pro clutch, one nice benefit is that it's much cheaper than Redline or Spectro.

[76shuvlinoff]

Thanks!

Headed out to pick up some F ATF.
Project is slightly detoured. I have some really rotted wiring to replace.

[david lee]

why is rivera prefered to a stock. whats the advantage

[76shuvlinoff]

It's a diaphragm clutch. Smoother operation, even releases,  no more worn out pins and dogs. Holds more HP than stock.

Some folks can tune the factory unit to a gnat's ass. I am not one of them and I tried all the gizmos. 5 stud hubs, 52 long rollers, Kevlar disks, "racing" springs and even the ram jett retainer.
I never got it right, all I got was pissed.  Going to a bigger mill made it even worse.

The Rivera was the answer (for me) and I never touched it again until now. I didn't open the primary for clutch issues at all. But ... I'm in there so...

[billbuilds]

     Many moons ago when I first got my Pro Clutch I called Rivera and asked them if it was ok to run their clutch dry. The person I spoke with said yes, that's fine, it was disigned to be run with a belt primary.

[76shuvlinoff]

Yep,
I was YouTubing Rivera clutch stuff and the first video I came to was in an open belt drive.

[76shuvlinoff]

Does anyone have the assembly instructions and or diagram. It sure seems i am doing something wrong. I cannot locate my original paperwork.

Mark

[Ohio HD]

 I think this is them.

http://www.vtwinmfg.com/Instructions/20/20-0516.pdf

[76shuvlinoff]

Thanks Brian,
looks like I have it assembled correctly but unless I take one friction disc out (.120") it becomes a solid stack and I have no lever movement. They do say you want .010 to .020" of bow left in the spring and with one disc out i get .030".

Tomorrow I will disassemble it again, clean and measure everything.

Mark

[72fl]

Mark looks like Brian has you covered, I do have my Paperwork if you need anything else.

[billbuilds]

        This is a lousy picture of my original Rivera Pro Clutch instructions where they talk about adjusting the diaphragm spring after a fair amount of clutch usage. If the spring needs additional compression this can be accomplished by adding one or more of the special .020 washers on each of the shouldered nuts (top left pic). If the diaphragm spring adjustment needs less spring compression, this can be accomplished by using one or more of the special .030 washers on the clutch hub stud nuts (top right pic). Botton left pic shows spring with too much compression. Bottom right shows a spring correctly compressed.

[76shuvlinoff]

Thanks all.

The new clutch pack came with a thicker steel you are supposed to put at the back of the stack, first in the shell. The old steels measure .047" to .050", this thicker steel measures .120".  I replaced the thick one with a used piece and the clutch went together like it should with all the friction discs and steels. I have not ridden it yet as I have other things that need addressing but the lever feels right now.  I have found I need a new clutch cable as the old one from Barnett is finally frayed. Always something huh?

I will button up the primary, order a clutch cable and move on to the wiring repairs.

[kd]

76, if it's not too late, measure the studs and the depth of the basket.  With this new development and it working better I'm wondering if there is a change in either of those since you bought yours.  Comparing your measurements to something newer (or older) than yours may explain why you have a different size first disc.  In other words, is the .120 disc something that changed to improve the way it was working (or not working)?

[76shuvlinoff]

kd I have it together but if I am understanding you correctly the Rivera does not have a basket and there are no pins, but does re-use the 4 speed shell.  My shell has been in there over 20 years but is not the original so maybe there is a difference between mine and the factory piece.

The replacement Rivera clutch pack is just new steels and friction discs. In comparing the new to old parts the only significant difference I can find is this single thicker steel. Replacing that with a thin one from the old pack took a little over .080" out of the new parts stack.

I am just glad I won't have to run around with one less friction disc.

[capn]

You need that thicker steel against the clutch hub.

[kd]

kd I have it together but if I am understanding you correctly the Rivera does not have a basket and there are no pins, but does re-use the 4 speed shell.  My shell has been in there over 20 years but is not the original so maybe there is a difference between mine and the factory piece.

The replacement Rivera clutch pack is just new steels and friction discs. In comparing the new to old parts the only significant difference I can find is this single thicker steel. Replacing that with a thin one from the old pack took a little over .080" out of the new parts stack.

I am just glad I won't have to run around with one less friction disc.

Yes, I thought it was a basket also.   

[76shuvlinoff]

Could be I am wording it incorrectly.

[capn]

That thick plate is to support the pressure when you release the clutch lever.Not like a stock set up that is supported by the basket.

[Burnout]

The thick steel goes in first to reinforce the back side of the hub. If you look at the back side of the hub it is just a thin piece of aluminum sheet that can deform with the full pressure against it.

[billbuilds]

       The installation instructions that came with my Rivera Pro-Clutch says that it's for models PC-1000-C & PC-1000. They make no mention of a thicker steel going in anywhere in the pak. Step 5 in the instructions doesn't require any action it states "Many clutch baskets have ended up on the scrap heap due to worn or damaged rear friction surface. Rivera Engineering's Pro-Clutch has it's own friction surface allowing those baskets to be resurrected for new life."
      Step 6: Install the Pro-Clutch plates into the basket, friction plate first, then steel, alternating until all plates are installed. 

[76shuvlinoff]

That's confusing. The part I ordered is  1048-0041 says 1936 to 1984 BT. The sheet that came with it said to put thickest steel plate in first then alternate. There was also a steel at the end between the last friction disc and the pressure plate.

Either something has changed or I have the wrong pack installed. I hope it works.

[JW113]

While you're waiting on that new clutch cable, maybe pick up the phone and ask Rivera WTF is up with the thick plate?



-JW

[kd]

   good idea.

[76shuvlinoff]

While you're waiting on that new clutch cable, maybe pick up the phone and ask Rivera WTF is up with the thick plate?



-JW

Not a bad idea at all.

Still have not removed and measured up the cable.  The cards have been stacked against me as far as working on bikes ....and yes I see the irony in that statement considering what I am doing right now. 

When I google the part number I listed for that clutch kit it comes back as for the 36-84 Big Twin and is also known as PC-1-A. It lists 8 steel plates and 7 friction discs. That would put a plate at both ends. Putting a plate in first against the shell seems right to me as it would be a considerably more even surface than running the friction disc against the shell face. Couild be Rivera changed their way of thinking in the last 20 years?

  The thick plate may indeed be just what Burnout says it is but I didn't have a thick one in there for the last 17 years so I am leaving it out... for now. I do need to recheck the spring bow.

edit to add: the link Ohio posted clearly shows putting the .120" thick disc in first. However, installing per "the book" I can't even get the nuts started without serious effort. My guess is my aftermarket clutch shell was not built to oem depth. 

[Burnout]

It was an update, if you have an earlier clutch it would not have it.

There is an updated hub that holds more clutch discs - a 1.7" stack.

[76shuvlinoff]

It was an update, if you have an earlier clutch it would not have it.

There is an updated hub that holds more clutch discs - a 1.7" stack.

    Assembled per the instructions my last friction disc was engaging the shell dogs by 1/2 a frog hair. It looks to me like in use it could come off the drive dogs but it made a solid stack so fortunately I didn't get that far.  Using a thin as a steel replacement it looks good. If I have issues I will do as Bill mentioned and remove the first steel.

[billbuilds]

     I just spoke with a gentleman at American Prime Manufacturing. The owner was apparently one of the principles at Rivera before Primo bought them out. I caught him on his way to work since their website shows their hours incorrectly at 8M-5:30PM PST  but they are actually 8:30AM-5PM PST. As Burnout mentoned there was/is an updated hub that is machined differently than the original so as to accomodate that .120 steel. He asked that I call him a bit later when he has arrived at work and he will email me pics of the different hubs and instructions on stack height adustment using the new clutch pak kit in the old style hub. I'll pass that info along. 

[billbuilds]

      Well I'm sorry to report that after spending a few minutes on the phone with American Prime Manufacturing I am a bit confused myself. There have been a number of changes to the 36-84 Pro Clutch over the years and apparently you cannot use the 1048-0041 clutch pack with the older style hub. When I asked him if they had a replacement clutch pak for the Pro Clutch he said yes but he'd need to know which style hub you had. BTW, they call their clutch the Comp Master. Nobody home at RiveraPrimo just now. I'd be happy to help but I don't want to misconstrue things so I think best that you call if you'd like. American Primo's phone number is (562) 321-1989   

[76shuvlinoff]

Thanks for the ground work Bill. I guess I am going to have to dig in. Worst case is I put the old stuff back in as it was working.   My primary is all buttoned up so this weekend I am going to work on the wiring repairs I uncovered, then fire it up for a test run. 

[76shuvlinoff]

It's Friday, I took the last 1/2 of the day off and finished this up.

I rode it less than 5 miles but it sure is nice. The old assembly was getting grabby, on Youtube I heard they did that when they were getting worn.  This afternoon there was zero noise shifting out of neutral into 1st. The lever is smooth and predictable, I can find neutral over and over at a dead stop without a throttle blip. No slip under hard acceleration. Like I said, it was only 5 miles so things were probably not fully heated up. I will wipe the greasy finger prints off tomorrow and run it a little longer. Sunday is supposed to be rainy maybe I will get the clutch cable measured up and see what Barnett has to offer.

After 27 years the 76 still makes me grin  .  I wish my 12 Ultra shifted as nice as this bike does.

[Hossamania]

After 27 years the 76 still makes me grin  .  I wish my 12 Ultra shifted as nice as this bike does.

My '01 with a Pro Clutch also shifts much nicer than my '12.

[72fl]

Mark I have been out of the saddle for 6 years, I bought a 15 StreetGlide thinking I was going to be able to jump on a Bike and go, not the case still having issue's. I'm actually thinking  that I will try to sell it as I just hate having that Money tied up in something that I wanted but isn't doing what I thought I could do.

Now I got the Shovel and it is and will always be what makes me feel like I can enjoy a Bike that I have owned over 20 years and it has a Soul where these Newer Bikes well you jump on and go I just don't know

[Hossamania]

72, have you considered a smaller bike to make riding a little easier? Royal Enfield makes some nice, accessible bikes for not a lot of money.
Maybe a different thread, don't want to hijack this one.

[76shuvlinoff]

Good luck Dave, Hoss has a point about the smaller bike extending your ride time. For me the shovel, stripped to bar hopper mode and slightly lowered, is my small bike. "Other" is my 12 Ultra. I keep that for trips and taking the wife for a putt. She loves the Ultra's throne but I know the day will come when decisions have to be made. Reality hit me when I stepped in a hole and dropped it a couple years ago, fortunately I was riding with friends.


   Glad I pulled that clutch cable all the way out to get a look, it is a lot more broken than I thought it was. I installed a new stock length one I had on the shelf but that's just to get by, I need a 6" over cable.

[72fl]

I have thought about other Bike's, I will alway's remember being a 17 year old and riding my First Harley It made me feel sooooo good and I thought Wow this feeling is what the Harley riders feel, it in my opinion will never go away.

Now back to the thread, I will have to check out my cable also after sitting for so long, also I am having a transmission leak that I am sure is the main trans seal, I do have one of Ray Duquay's  transmission spacer with the O-Ring that I will be installing this Winter

[billbuilds]

     Apparently the gentleman from American Prime Manufacturing was incorrect when he said that you couldn't use 1048-0041 clutch pak with the earlier Pro Clutch's. Glad to hear it's working properly for you. I was hoping to learn what the deal was with American Prime making the Comp Master and Rivera Prima making the Pro Clutch but the conversation did not get that far. 

[Burnout]

Apparently there are early and late Brute 3 clutch assemblys.

The later hub assy is deeper and takes more clutch plates (1.71 to 1.72 stack height).

The thick steel is loaded first onto the hub to re-enforce the back of the hub and provide a steel wear surface so the friction is not running against the aluminum back plate of the hub.

[76shuvlinoff]

     Apparently the gentleman from American Prime Manufacturing was incorrect when he said that you couldn't use 1048-0041 clutch pak with the earlier Pro Clutch's. Glad to hear it's working properly for you......

I hope so Bill. I really have not had a chance to put it through it's paces yet.  I put a stock length cable on the bike but I don't want to use it if I don't have to. It rubs the tank.
 
The only difference on my end is I swapped out the thick plate for a thin one.