S&S inner primary race won't go on far enough :(

[1340evo]

Having taken the advice of you guys on here, I bought the S&S inner race having upgraded the All Balls bearing.
Came to fit it today and it's a good 4-5mm short of where the last one was... end result is it won't reach the outer lip of the seal
Any thoughts on this. It's on as far as it will go for sure...
I did change the gearbox input shaft a couple of years ago to splined and bought I think an Andrews shaft.. maybe this has the taper coing in earlier than the standard one?.. wonder how hard it is, I could turn a bit from the last undersize ring if it will cut, but think it will be hardened.



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[JW113]

Can't explain what is going on, but man. The finish on that inner race looks like CRAP!

-JW

[turboprop]

Having taken the advice of you guys on here, I bought the S&S inner race having upgraded the All Balls bearing.
Came to fit it today and it's a good 4-5mm short of where the last one was... end result is it won't reach the outer lip of the seal
Any thoughts on this. It's on as far as it will go for sure...
I did change the gearbox input shaft a couple of years ago to splined and bought I think an Andrews shaft.. maybe this has the taper coing in earlier than the standard one?.. wonder how hard it is, I could turn a bit from the last undersize ring if it will cut, but think it will be hardened.

Where the last one was is irrelevant. That race came with instructions that call out a specific torque specification when installing the race. Did you follow the included instructions?

[Coyote]

Not suppose to go all the way to the seal, is it?

[1340evo]

I know its not going all the way to the seal, but should be closer. Think my last one was about 3-4 mm

The inner race is cover in grease, thats why it looks that way. Its real nice ground finish.

And yes, torqued it down till it stoped. you have 3 internal rings and a stop ring inside.. you can feel it going ring 1, 2, 3, then stop. so its going as far as it can.

May be its the James shaft adding a bit of extra shoulder on for strength?

[turboprop]

Not suppose to go all the way to the seal, is it?

No it is not.

[turboprop]

I know its not going all the way to the seal, but should be closer. Think my last one was about 3-4 mm

The inner race is cover in grease, thats why it looks that way. Its real nice ground finish.

And yes, torqued it down till it stoped. you have 3 internal rings and a stop ring inside.. you can feel it going ring 1, 2, 3, then stop. so its going as far as it can.

May be its the James shaft adding a bit of extra shoulder on for strength?

No. It is not the Jims shaft.

Aside from not looking like the one you removed (which may have walked in), how do you know the S&S race is not on the shaft far enough to go through the seal on the inner primary?

[kd]

I know its not going all the way to the seal, but should be closer. Think my last one was about 3-4 mm

The inner race is cover in grease, thats why it looks that way. Its real nice ground finish.

And yes, torqued it down till it stoped. you have 3 internal rings and a stop ring inside.. you can feel it going ring 1, 2, 3, then stop. so its going as far as it can.

May be its the James shaft adding a bit of extra shoulder on for strength?

No. It is not the Jims shaft.

Aside from not looking like the one you removed (which may have walked in), how do you know the S&S race is not on the shaft far enough to go through the seal on the inner primary?

Was just about to type that.  If it was not an S&S race there is no way of knowing if it was actually installed to the right depth or as Turboprop said walked in as they typically or often do.

[Coyote]

Have you slid the inner primary on and see if the bearing sits on the race? It's been awhile since I've done one but IIRC, the bearing isn't near as wide as the race is.

[Ohio HD]

Before I yank the old race off, I always remove the seal from the inner primary, then put the inner back on with two bolts so I can measure where the race edge is in relation to the bearing rollers.

That does two things, tells you were it's been riding, and if that's good serves as guide when putting the new race on so you know where it'll be riding.

[nmainehunter]

If the bearing sits on the race and the case can be assembled without having to muscle it you are good.

[jsachs1]

If it's at the proper depth, and you try to move it, it will crack. Mid USA makes a non-slip race as well. 
John

[1340evo]

When I put the inner primery on, you can get a small camera up the back and you can see the outer seal is not on the S&S inner race.

The old one had not walked in, it was the exact same place I set it as I have a tool that goes down the back to pull them off. I set it to this when they go on.

The primary bearing is between 2 clips so you can't change that, and the seal is pushed into the clip, so you can't change that.

I may just use the All Balls one with some bearing lock. Or investigate the other option suggested above.. but how does that work? Same way as the S&S?

[capn]

drive it on further

[1340evo]

I did, and it expands the end by 0.05mm oversize, to the point where the roller bearing will not fit over it?

I could always remove the shaft and turn / grind a bit off the taper ??

[FSG]

pull it off and measure it inside and out

also measure the mainshaft splines and taper and post a pic of it

[Buglet]

    All the S&S races end up having a bigger gap then the stock Harley ones, have no problems. I primany seal looks like it is install backwards. 

[1340evo]

    All the S&S races end up having a bigger gap then the stock Harley ones, have no problems. I primany seal looks like it is install backwards.

Putting the seal the other way may do it for sure.. are you saying the open side of the seal should go to the outside?

[rigidthumper]

Yes

[1340evo]

Yes

Thay would put the spring on the outside also... I thought the spring always went to the oil side?. whats stopping a bit of something geting caught in the sprocket from pulling it off?

[Coyote]

Spring goes against the retaining clip.

[1340evo]

Thats the way it's in....

BTW, the input shaft is a Andrews AP296900.. I've mailed both S&S and Andrews.. see what they say??

[thumper 823]

AFAIK Andrews makes most of the trans parts for most of the vendors.

[Burnout]

Off topic -
You have an old style sprocket on there.
I highly recommend using a new style PBI sprocket and the trans seal with the larger ID and the matching sprocket spacer.

[1340evo]

Looking at the Andrews shaft there is a slight step where I guess the 5th gear seal runs. Wonder if they made it a bit longer it would cure the issue itself in that the inner bearing could not move into the output shaft.
I'll take a picture tonight of both shafts side by side datum from the shoulder that sits on the trap door bearing. Then we'll see if they differ in any way?