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S&S inner primary race won't go on far enough :(

Started by 1340evo, October 10, 2021, 09:33:59 AM

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1340evo

This is a bit of a strange one. I've used a All Balls inner primery bearing and have pushed the inner on using green loctite to the correct position. un-done the bolts between the engine and box a bit and dry fit the primary without the O ring to get engine, box, primery all in line. Nip it all up and give the gearbox input shaft a turn..
its maybe easier now to just throw the clutch in as its something bigger to spin, but I'm getting a bit of a tick, tick, tick.... tick, tick, tick as I spin it from the bearing? not loude like a crack or anything... I did think it was the grease moving at first but its not.

I've tried a number of things to better line up the parts but cant get it noise free.

When I get a small screwdriver, I can move the rollers in the bearing (at least at my end), a bit stiffer at the 8 o'clock position, but think the other end of the roller may be a bit tight leading to the ticking? I think this as when I take it off, I get a slightly darker area on the inner race towards the far end of the rollers.

I have a video but no idea how to upload on here.

What do you think... zip it up and it will bed in?

Anyone had this before at all?

Buglet

  Is the bearing dry if so put some oil in it and see if the noise goes away.

1340evo

It's greased and oiled, was my first thoughts. It's like a roller is tight and it's flicking past the tight spot.
Are All Balls any good?

Has anyone fitted the upgrade bearings you can get for these? Assume they are a twin race ball bearing?

Burnout

I not real keen on those one piece jack shafts, I had one that was eating gears.
I had questions about the jack shaft
One phone call and no questions they put a new one in the mail to me for free!

they do customer service right.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

1340evo

Quote from: Burnout on October 29, 2021, 09:20:08 AM
I not real keen on those one piece jack shafts, I had one that was eating gears.
I had questions about the jack shaft
One phone call and no questions they put a new one in the mail to me for free!

they do customer service right.

Sorry Burnout, I'm not understanding your reply here (English you know  :wink: )

Are you talking about the 1 piece bearings? made by All Balls and Baker, but from what I read the Baker one is still the All Balls re-branded.

Do these work okay.. in a chain primary, would you remove the seals?

Deye76

"I not real keen on those one piece jack shafts,"
You speaking of the starter jack shaft?  :scratch:
East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

1340evo

so taken it in bits again, and I'm thinking maybe the inner primary bearing was not in square? I heated the primary and froze the bearing when fitting so it could of been sat at an angle maybe?
I'll do the same when I re-fit but try ensure its sat true.. If not, it may be time for the wider bearing anyway. I've spent a couple of hours with some 1800 grit and a ground bar trying to improve the bore. It does look like someone has been in there in the past and indenter the bore for about 90 deg with a socket or something so I've just removed any high areas that could throw the bearing off?

turboprop

Quote from: 1340evo on October 30, 2021, 06:23:52 AM
so taken it in bits again, and I'm thinking maybe the inner primary bearing was not in square? I heated the primary and froze the bearing when fitting so it could of been sat at an angle maybe?
I'll do the same when I re-fit but try ensure its sat true.. If not, it may be time for the wider bearing anyway. I've spent a couple of hours with some 1800 grit and a ground bar trying to improve the bore. It does look like someone has been in there in the past and indenter the bore for about 90 deg with a socket or something so I've just removed any high areas that could throw the bearing off?

Impossible.

The inner primary bearing sits between two snap rings. There is simply not enough room between those snap rings for the bearing to be out of square enough to cause an issue.

Case in point, members of this page will discuss issues in depth, over and over and over again. That inner primary bearing setup was used on shovels, evo and TC. Maybe even the M8, no idea. If it was possible for that bearing to be out of square enough to cause an issue there would be discussions on this forum. I have never heard of any issue with that bearing being out of square.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

1340evo

Quote from: turboprop on October 30, 2021, 06:35:40 AM
Quote from: 1340evo on October 30, 2021, 06:23:52 AM
so taken it in bits again, and I'm thinking maybe the inner primary bearing was not in square? I heated the primary and froze the bearing when fitting so it could of been sat at an angle maybe?
I'll do the same when I re-fit but try ensure its sat true.. If not, it may be time for the wider bearing anyway. I've spent a couple of hours with some 1800 grit and a ground bar trying to improve the bore. It does look like someone has been in there in the past and indenter the bore for about 90 deg with a socket or something so I've just removed any high areas that could throw the bearing off?

Impossible.

The inner primary bearing sits between two snap rings. There is simply not enough room between those snap rings for the bearing to be out of square enough to cause an issue.

Case in point, members of this page will discuss issues in depth, over and over and over again. That inner primary bearing setup was used on shovels, evo and TC. Maybe even the M8, no idea. If it was possible for that bearing to be out of square enough to cause an issue there would be discussions on this forum. I have never heard of any issue with that bearing being out of square.

Not so.. after 5 hours scraping the bore and measuring, scraping and fitting, scraping and measuring, I've managed to get the bearing into the position it should be. Still a tad tight on the bottom rollers when fitted but don't want to go any more. The bearing is a very nice press fit in now where as before it was quite hard. The bulge caused by the chimp who did it before was proud and was crushing the bearing slightly making it oval and tight in one place.
You maybe could get it out of square if you tried as there is about a 0.025 gap with the bearing in and clips fitted but you'd have to push it on one side only to do it...
5 hours, back ache and various cuts and blisters but at least its okay now.
I do remember when I looked in there before that this bearing did tick a bit... now I know why  :doh: