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Replacing battery cables

Started by motorhogman, October 30, 2021, 11:37:48 AM

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motorhogman


Thinking about changing my 21 plus year old cables.  Not having any issues, just thinking preventing an issue.
These cables are said to be an exact fit for my 2001 FLHT. 
Says they are 4 GA.  I can't find the OEM GA in the SM or Parts manual. 
Anyone know what the OEM GA is ?
LINK

where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

Fugawee

I think that 4 ga. is correct.  I just happen to have the seat off of My 03' FLH, and can barely see it on the cables...but it looks like 4 gauge printed on there.  Had to get the magnifying glass out...but it sure looks like 4 gauge to Me.

kd

Do some homework about the cable gauge available.  I think Terry Cables is where I got mine and IIRC they were #1 or #2 gauge (soft and pliable),  They can be bought with the extra power or ground leads installed (if your year and model uses them).  They provide way more cranking power and less voltage drop.  You Will notice a difference. Give California Phil a call.  He can probably help.  :wink:
KD

motorhogman

Thanks kd  I'll take a look. 
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

Ohio HD

If your looking for an upgrade, you might take a look at Sumax. They have a full 2 AWG cable with over 2,000 bare strands of copper. Very flexible, and very high quality. Also very costly. 

https://sumax.com/product-category/battery-cables/

motorhogman

Quote from: Ohio HD on October 30, 2021, 03:29:12 PM
If your looking for an upgrade, you might take a look at Sumax. They have a full 2 AWG cable with over 2,000 bare strands of copper. Very flexible, and very high quality. Also very costly. 

https://sumax.com/product-category/battery-cables/

Thanks  I looked..  yes..  $$$$$$
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

motorhogman

Came across this calculator while searching.  One article I came across said 01 FLHT cables are 6 GA.  ?

LINK
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

Ohio HD

This is the standard AWG size for the conductor diameter.

2 AWG 0.258
4 AWG 0.204
6 AWG 0.162

6 ga. sounds right for OEM

kd

OK, It may be Sumax that I bought. I do know the ones for my 2011 came with the integrated #8 (?) leads in the battery lugs. I know of another member that bought what I have shortly after that said it cured a hot cranking issue he had.  They really are worth the few dollars more.  Cut back on the beers for a day or so.  :teeth:
KD

motorhogman

Quote from: Ohio HD on October 30, 2021, 03:39:37 PM
This is the standard AWG size for the conductor diameter.

2 AWG 0.258
4 AWG 0.204
6 AWG 0.162

6 ga. sounds right for OEM

Thank You.. I'm going to check mine tomorrow and see if there is any printing on them. If they are actually 6 GA going to 4 would be an improvement.
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

motorhogman

Quote from: kd on October 30, 2021, 03:43:45 PM
OK, It may be Sumax that I bought. I do know the ones for my 2011 came with the integrated #8 (?) leads in the battery lugs. I know of another member that bought what I have shortly after that said it cured a hot cranking issue he had.  They really are worth the few dollars more.  Cut back on the beers for a day or so.  :teeth:

LMAO  If I cut back any more I might as well quit all together.   I checked Terry Cable..  Couldn't find any battery cables.. Just clutch and throttle..
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

Ohio HD


kd

Sorry, try Terry Components.  I'll see if I can find my invoice from a few years ago to be sure where I got mine.  I remember speaking to them direct at that time but not who.   :doh:  Looks like Ohio beat me to it. :hyst:
KD

motorhogman

where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

motorhogman

Quote from: kd on October 30, 2021, 03:52:13 PM
Sorry, try Terry Components.  I'll see if I can find my invoice from a few years ago to be sure where I got mine.  I remember speaking to them direct at that time but not who.   :doh:  Looks like Ohio beat me to it. :hyst:

YEP he did..
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

motorhogman

Anybody look at that calculator I Linked in post #7 ?   
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

smoserx1

October 30, 2021, 04:24:29 PM #16 Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 04:30:07 PM by smoserx1
If you want a set of Sumax cables the company in your link has one set in stock.  Yes I think 4ga is stock and is what your calculator shows (I chose a half meter length, 120 amps and 2% loss which I believe are reasonable parameters). 

motorhogman

Quote from: smoserx1 on October 30, 2021, 04:24:29 PM
If you want a set of Sumax cables the company in your link has one set in stock.  Yes I think 4ga is stock and is what your calculator shows (I chose a half meter length, 120 amps and 2% loss which I believe are reasonable parameters).

Thanks.  I was wondering what number should be used for amperage draw. The service manual shows 90 amp no load @11.5 V.  A no load amperage doesn't make sense to use ?   Those Sumax cables are nice but the price is proud.
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

smoserx1

I believe that would be 90 amps just spinning the starter on a bench.  Actually turning the engine over will be more.  Stalling it (like those hot days when the engine occasionally refuses to turn over) and the amperage goes way up.  I'll never force it like I have seen some to.

motorhogman

Quote from: smoserx1 on October 31, 2021, 08:41:02 AM
I believe that would be 90 amps just spinning the starter on a bench.  Actually turning the engine over will be more.  Stalling it (like those hot days when the engine occasionally refuses to turn over) and the amperage goes way up.  I'll never force it like I have seen some to.

Yes that is the bench test I'm thinking also.  To me all that test will tell you is the starter works on the bench.. 
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

smoserx1

Exactly.  Those high priced 2 gauge cables probably won't a difference on the bench test.  Hot soak restart day will be another story and they might just get you over that hump provided your battery is up to snuff.  The weakest link will always be the bottleneck.

motorhogman

OK enough thinking about it.. Ordered the Sumax exact fit set 2GA.
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

kd

 :up:  In my personal experience and another member I know had the hot soak problem on occasion found it worthwhile.
KD

Wide Glide

Bought a set from these guys, crazy cheap and great quality.
https://www.batterycablesusa.com/
'97 FXDWG
Mike

motorhogman

Quote from: Wide Glide on October 31, 2021, 03:00:20 PM
Bought a set from these guys, crazy cheap and great quality.
https://www.batterycablesusa.com/

I book marked the site.. Already ordered the Sumax big $$ ones. This site may come in handy for future cable needs.  Lawn tractor, 4X4, car etc,..   Thanks for posting.  Yes, they are very inexpensive.
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

Norton Commando

All I know about electricity can be summed up as follows: Resistance = Volts/Amps; give me any two and I can determine the third one.

Having said that, I've found that not all wire gauges are equal. For instance, a multi-strand 2-gauge wire will have less capacity in terms of AMPs than say a single strand 2-gauge wire.   

So do your homework before buying any battery cables.

Jason
Remember, you can sleep in your car, but you can't drive your house.

Ohio HD

But when is the last time you saw single strand battery cables on a Harley Davidson?     :scratch:



Norton Commando

Quote from: Ohio HD on October 31, 2021, 04:24:48 PM
But when is the last time you saw single strand battery cables on a Harley Davidson?     :scratch:

Of course never, but that's not the point I was trying to make.

I was trying to say that more strands for a given diameter/gauge = less amperage capacity.

Jason 
Remember, you can sleep in your car, but you can't drive your house.

Ohio HD

Try this link, set the calculations at
"estimated resistance"
Wire material: Copper
Wire Size: 2 AWG
Voltage: 13.2
Phase: DC
Number of conductors: try single and try 9
Distance: 1 foot
Load: 200 amps

The single strand has a higher voltage drop.

This is with a given that both support the amperage requirements.

Hit Me, I'm A Link...


Norton Commando

Quote from: Ohio HD on October 31, 2021, 05:03:35 PM
Try this link, set the calculations at
"estimated resistance"
Wire material: Copper
Wire Size: 2 AWG
Voltage: 13.2
Phase: DC
Number of conductors: try single and try 9
Distance: 1 foot
Load: 200 amps

The single strand has a higher voltage drop.

This is with a given that both support the amperage requirements.

Hit Me, I'm A Link...

I think you're confusing conductors with strands.  A multi-strand wire that is, say, 3/16" in diameter cannot handle as many amps as a single strand 3/16" diameter wire. 

Jason   
Remember, you can sleep in your car, but you can't drive your house.

kd

This has been discussed here before. It is not as technical when only used with DC.  This link will explain it for the purposes of this discussion.
KD

Coyote

That's not a good source for this discussion.   Surface area of the wire means nothing on a DC current. The only thing that matters is cross sectional area. Stranded or solid. If that's the same, capacity is the same.

kd

Quote from: Coyote on October 31, 2021, 08:04:53 PM
That's not a good source for this discussion.   Surface area of the wire means nothing on a DC current. The only thing that matters is cross sectional area. Stranded or solid. If that's the same, capacity is the same.


I agree.  I could have searched up something better.  I just thought it answered the question in simple terms so I stopped there.  Your words are as simple and clear too.
KD

PC_Hater

I used marine quality multi-stranded wire as thick as your thumb. Works a treat!
From memory it was rated at 750 Amps.
I bought the crimp connectors and the crimp tool too.
I have other bikes, they'll get used again.

If you search HTT you might find the exact specs I gave to a bloke in New Zealand.
1942 WLA45 chop, 1999 FLTR(not I), 2000 1200S

motorhogman

November 08, 2021, 06:44:46 AM #34 Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 02:04:11 PM by Coyote
Got my 2 GA Sumax cables installed this weekend. They are porkers compared to the OEM. They call them "exact fit"  Not so much, as they are longer than the OEM.  Still don't know what the GA of the OEM ones are. There is printing on them that I believe are PN's and some QC batch number I guess. Can't figure out what is stamped on the terminal ends. Looks more like symbols than numbers or letters.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :scratch:  Now how do I post a picture of my cable installation.  Not that anyone needs to see a picture of battery cables installed but I just wanted to try it on this new format.  Looks to be done the same way on a "new topic" but I'm not figuring it out here on a reply.
You cannot see attachments on this board.

where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

Hossamania

Go to "User Actions" at the bottom of the post, select "reply", this will show the attachments option. "Quick reply" at the end of a post does not show that option.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

motorhogman

Thanx Hoss.. Didn't see user actions on my page.  Windows 10 ?  maybe why ?  Are you using Win 10 ? ..  I did click on "more" and then "modify" and that got me to the right place.  I mistakenly hit "insert" twice that's why there are two pictures.
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

hbkeith

Just go get some fine strand welding cable at local farm supply , they have the ends also

smoserx1

They look pretty good to me.  I'd rather have 'em a little longer than too short.  Did the extra length allow for the top mounting terminals?  To me just that would be worth it (no longer having to use those little brass colored spacers that can drop into oblivion).  Good job.

Ohio HD

They look good. Shouldn't ever have any issues due to cables.

motorhogman

Quote from: smoserx1 on November 08, 2021, 01:51:01 PMThey look pretty good to me.  I'd rather have 'em a little longer than too short.  Did the extra length allow for the top mounting terminals?  To me just that would be worth it (no longer having to use those little brass colored spacers that can drop into oblivion).  Good job.

I have had the ground cable on top for years with the OEM cable. Yes the longer cable allowed for connecting the positive terminal on top. Thanks.
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

motorhogman

Quote from: Ohio HD on November 08, 2021, 01:53:30 PMThey look good. Shouldn't ever have any issues due to cables.

Thanks   :up:   I wrapped that red electrical tape around the pos cable for my own sake.. lol It didn't come that way.
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

motorhogman

Quote from: hbkeith on November 08, 2021, 11:32:44 AMJust go get some fine strand welding cable at local farm supply , they have the ends also

To late.. Sumax installed. Thanks
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

bump

Quote from: motorhogman on November 08, 2021, 02:52:20 PM
Quote from: hbkeith on November 08, 2021, 11:32:44 AMJust go get some fine strand welding cable at local farm supply , they have the ends also

To late.. Sumax installed. Thanks

I did that for my shovelhead, cost less than $10 for everything. A couple guys asked where I bought them.

kd

Keep in mind that soldering fine multi strand cable to the fittings is tricky.  If the full strand band isn't tinned properly the connection to the connector base will be less than desirable.  Over time that invisible and internal black strand disease will set in and that can lead to faulty cables.
KD