Good, Good, Good, Good Vibrations...... NOT!

Started by JW113, November 28, 2021, 02:01:35 PM

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turboprop

Quote from: JW113 on March 06, 2022, 02:25:29 PMI was able to do some full throttle main jet tuning this weekend, just wrapped it up. Was quite shocked at the first WOT pull, and saw AFR was 17.1! Yikes. And that was with a 180 main jet. Since it was so drastically lean, I swapped it out for 210 and took it for another spin. Dropped it to about 14.5, still too lean for WOT. Back to the garage for a quick exchange for a 230, and now am down to about 12.5. It was quite evident that this made a huge difference in the torque the engine was now making, as it has created it's own new problem to fix: the clutch is slipping at WOT! Never had that problem before, but then I've clearly never had it jetted properly for maximum power either. Since the clutch would slip, it is not accelerating as it would with a solid clutch. So, I guess I've got more fun to come after I solve this.

The old stock clutch has been working great for me, and never gave me any reason to get rid of it. Until now. So... Rivera or APM Pro Clutch I guess it will be. I was also quite amazed to see this thing wanted a 230 main jet, that is huge. But then again, it's a Shovelhead, and rich burn hemi combustion chamber with essentially zero quench/swirl to eliminate lean pockets. So only option is to throw more fuel than is needed compared to a lean burn chamber like Evo & later.

So any opinion regarding Rivera or APM? They look identical, and designed by the same guy right?

-JW

I am convinced that many of the shovels that need rebuilding so often are not because they are shovels, but because they are not tuned properly. An AFR gauge in mid 70's would have been a game changer for many.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

crock

Quote from: JW113 on March 06, 2022, 03:25:37 PMWell, I do have new steels, new Alto Red Eagle friction discs, an aluminum pressure plate, and a new set of matched "blue" springs. New meaning about 2000 miles ago. I guess I could try putting some turns on the pressure plate nuts and see if that helps. But after hearing all the ranting and raving about the joys of the Rivera/APM type diaphragm clutch, I'm thinking... why not? I'm not going to be one of those guys that dies with money still in his bank account.

 :SM:

-JW

I would try the red springs.
Crock

JW113

The blue ones are already pretty stiff at the clutch lever. Was hoping to go the other way!

I already ordered the APM clutch. Hopefully be here by Saturday.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

76shuvlinoff

Late to the party but I've never regretted the Rivera Pro I put behind my 93"er.  Had over 30K miles on it when I replaced the discs and plates, which when measured were not that different than new. The new components did eliminate a grabbing issue I was beginning to have.

 JW,  in reading your thread I should probably locate  or buy an AFR meter.
Critics are men who watch a battle from a high place, then come down and shoot the survivors.
 - Ernest Hemingway

JW113

I have to say, the Daytona Sensors AFR is the most useful tool that I have ever owned. Yes, tuning "by ear" is all well and good, and can probably get the tune somewhat "close", but damn... I am eternally amazed at how far off my 'by ear' tuning has been compared to actually measuring it with an AFR meter. All of the bikes that I've used it on have made impressive improvements in both power and mileage. The technology is here, why not use it?

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

72fl

I tell you JW Mark told me about the Rivera Pro/ American Prime years ago. I will always be thankful he told me about this as my clutch in the 72 was always grabbing and wanting to pull me through Stop signs. I had to tear it apart 3x every riding season and one day I Happened to find a $500 Bill laying under the Mattress on my Wife's side :hyst: Honestly Best Improvement ever on the 72, always shifts like Butter :SM:

tomfiii

Broke my top mount on '79 was an oops, forgot spacer washer.

JW113

Well alrighty then! Pro-clutch installed, no more slip, and pulls like a Mac truck right up to 100mph now. Yay! Did some more WOT pulls, and still on the lean side, like 13.2. So will need to up the main jet even more. Yikes.

I was hoping the Pro-clutch would be as light or lighter on the lever as the stock clutch, but it is indeed not. It came with little bag of shims, but didn't have anything in the instructions what to do with them. Maybe I need to adjust something, will give them a call tomorrow. It is also on the grabby side, as in not as easy to feather as the stock clutch. But hey, it sure does not slip one iota so that is good.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Hossamania

Make sure your clutch cable and handle is good and lubed, unless the cable is Teflon lined, helps with the hard pull. I also find that sometimes with new clutches, it helps to put the front tire against a wall and slip the clutch a couple times to bed it in, helps with the grabbiness.
Glad you are liking the new clutch, I've got a Pro Clutch in my Twin Cam and it works very well. I do lube the cable often, every little bit helps to lessen the pull.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

76shuvlinoff

JW, give it 200-300 miles. That grabbing should ease off. I don't recall doing anything with the shims but there should be something in the package about measuring the arc of the spring?
Critics are men who watch a battle from a high place, then come down and shoot the survivors.
 - Ernest Hemingway

JW113

All good tips about the clutch cable, but I do indeed have a teflon lined cable, and I run a little teflon tri-flow oil down it periodically. And, the lever pull was fairly light before installing the Pro-clutch. Pretty sure it's the increased pressure of the diaphragm spring. No worries, I'll get used to it. On the plus side, it's nothing like the SE clutch in my Road King! And yes, let's see what happens with a few miles on it, hopefully get de-grab-a-fied.

cheers,
JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

dbdevkc

JW,

I've read this post and convo with interest because I just started tearing down my 76 shovel (FXE). And I have a couple questions:

- The flywheel/crank work you had done by Darkhorse - was that just remanufacture, just balance, blueprint/balance, ...?
- What model Daytona Sensors AFR are you using, and how is it installed?
- I am planning to replace tappets/blocks/pushrods, but... "Some of you may recall a post on HTT a while back advising to take heed if you and installed a set of <name withheld> aftermarket tappets and tappet blocks, which were reported to have gotten the tappet board angels wrong..." Is there any way I can find out what aftermarket tappets those are so I don't get screwed?

Thanks.
KC
KC

JW113


- The flywheel/crank work you had done by Darkhorse - was that just remanufacture, just balance, blueprint/balance, ...?

Yes, balance/blueprint. Hone rod bushings, new rod bearings, new crank pin, new sprocket shaft, new sprocket shaft Timkens & spacer. Runout was like 0.00000 & 0.0002.

- What model Daytona Sensors AFR are you using, and how is it installed?

WEGO III. Mounted to the bar with a cheapo cell phone mount from Ebay.

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- Is there any way I can find out what aftermarket tappets those are so I don't get screwed?

Have a gander at this thread, draw your own conclusions. In my case, I found the rear exhaust lobe completely trashed as if the tappet wheel has been riding on it at a slight angle, and the tappet wheel itself was damaged as well. This was with perhaps 3000 miles on it.

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,109076.msg1309616.html#msg1309616

cheers,
JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber