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Aftermarket Twin Cam CVO 110 Heads?

Started by Ohio HD, December 05, 2021, 02:15:02 PM

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Ohio HD

Has anyone heard through the grapevine or other that any business may be making Twin Cam CVO 110 heads anytime soon? Speed and Science Ltd. and R&R Cycles make Twin Cam heads but are based on the standard TC heads, not CVO 110. S&S makes heads, but are basically Twin Cam but their design.

Good 110 cores are getting harder to find all the time. They're asking $800+ for worn out heads, they're either trash, or the head gasket surface has been cut away, making the chambers small.

Regular TC head cores are a dime a dozen. I have boxes of them set back for that one project one day...   :emoGroan:

Anyone hear any possibilities of 110 heads being produced by STD or others?

kd

Have you considered MVA heads?  Dan Baisley did a couple of "updates" to mine and they moved my 120 up to that 150 level at only 11.3 and 205# CCP. 
KD

Ohio HD

I have MVA heads on my last 124" touring motor that Larry ported. They move a lot of air. The heads I have now are 110+ which are basically the same as the MVA head, only a little different in the ports. Larry also set these up, they also push some serious air. These are for the 124" I'm building now.
Both times I bought brand new heads to send Larry. It gives him better opportunity and I know they haven't been butchered before I buy them.

I'm just looking for next, I don't think much more can be gotten out of the CVO stock castings. Hoping that someone will make an aftermarket with a better designed port that can offer more CFM. I know one can go down the B2 road. But I like simple. 

838

What about an old set of the CVO 103" castings?

Ohio HD

Chances of finding a stash of unmolested CVO 103 heads is slim to none, and that doesn't change the narrative. They won't give any more HP than a 110 head will.

I'd like to see the aftermarket come up with a better CVO 110 head. Like R&R did with their Twin Cam stage 5 heads. New castings, and make very good power.

hrdtail78

I'd look into the Ultima tc heads.   Come with 2.1 intake and 1.7 exhaust.  I buy the blank castings and send them to my guy. 
Semper Fi

Don D

Bingo, the Ultima heads do have some potential. They are a beefy casting (meaning big changes will not require welding) and ported move some air plus are affordable. They are taller, have different valve angles, 114cc chamber, and a breather system easily adapted or negotiated.

Don D


rigidthumper

Do they have enough meat for ACR machining?
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

Ohio HD

I've never used Ultima motor parts, or worked on a bike that had any. But I hear more bad than good, and at that don't hear all that much about Ultima. HD MVA heads are still a decent bargain new, of course you'll replace the springs and valves when the heads are ported. But they fit no issues as they're OEM. S&S 91cc heads is the next best thing to EOM CVO as far as fit. They cost more, but then they're S&S ($$$) and are decent quality too.   

kd

It would be interesting to poll a half dozen or so of the known top Harley head porters with your combination of parts and expectations and see how they place the MVA, 110, S&S, Ultima or other(?) heads based on required mods and power outcome to your goals.  I'll bet there would be as many opinions as there is choices.  I know my MVA's required different valve profiles, sizes and springs (that would give longevity but still control) and only minor clean-up on the porting.
KD

Don D

I like them all but they require different changes. The displacement and intended horsepower level come in to play making those decisions.

hrdtail78

Semper Fi

Don D

If you wanted ACRs I could machine the Ultimas for those.

turboprop

Quote from: Ohio HD on December 06, 2021, 03:09:26 PMI've never used Ultima motor parts, or worked on a bike that had any. But I hear more bad than good, and at that don't hear all that much about Ultima. HD MVA heads are still a decent bargain new, of course you'll replace the springs and valves when the heads are ported. But they fit no issues as they're OEM. S&S 91cc heads is the next best thing to EOM CVO as far as fit. They cost more, but then they're S&S ($$$) and are decent quality too. 

No need to have any heads machined to use Harley ACRs. There is a better way.

-10mm to HD ACR adapters.
-Uses standard, off the shelf Harley ACRs.
-Much easier to replace when they fail (They will).
-Threads into existing hole for mechanical releases.
-Cost is less than $50 on ebay.

For value added, very few will know what they are. If/when asked you tell people that they are 'direct plasma injectors'.








'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

kd

 :hyst: Plasma injectors.   :hyst:  That's hilarious.   :hyst:  Is the Plazma in a red bottle under the seat? 
KD

turboprop

All jokes aside, there is no way I would pay money to have heads machined to accept HD ACRs knowing that the rocker boxes would have to be removed to replace them when (not if) they failed. I would seriously question any hack that offers to machine heads for ACRs without first offering up this as a solution. Crazy.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

Ohio HD

December 07, 2021, 01:04:25 PM #17 Last Edit: December 07, 2021, 05:19:36 PM by Ohio HD
Quote from: turboprop on December 07, 2021, 11:49:35 AM
Quote from: Ohio HD on December 06, 2021, 03:09:26 PMI've never used Ultima motor parts, or worked on a bike that had any. But I hear more bad than good, and at that don't hear all that much about Ultima. HD MVA heads are still a decent bargain new, of course you'll replace the springs and valves when the heads are ported. But they fit no issues as they're OEM. S&S 91cc heads is the next best thing to EOM CVO as far as fit. They cost more, but then they're S&S ($$$) and are decent quality too. 

No need to have any heads machined to use Harley ACRs. There is a better way.

-10mm to HD ACR adapters.
-Uses standard, off the shelf Harley ACRs.
-Much easier to replace when they fail (They will).
-Threads into existing hole for mechanical releases.
-Cost is less than $50 on ebay.

For value added, very few will know what they are. If/when asked you tell people that they are 'direct plasma injectors.










I'm going to use that! 

jsachs1

And when the relief passage plugs up, that setup is a lot easier to unclog than the factory passage.
John

838

Quote from: turboprop on December 07, 2021, 12:26:21 PMAll jokes aside, there is no way I would pay money to have heads machined to accept HD ACRs knowing that the rocker boxes would have to be removed to replace them when (not if) they failed. I would seriously question any hack that offers to machine heads for ACRs without first offering up this as a solution. Crazy.

This is slick. Any concern with the length of the setup going into a small hole drilled into soft metal? I'd be concerned that a small bump against this could cause enough shear force to damage the head.

Buglet

   That's different, but I would go with that setup. I see no problem with it and a lot less headache. The best thing you don't have to worry about the ports getting plug up.   

turboprop

Quote from: 838 on December 07, 2021, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: turboprop on December 07, 2021, 12:26:21 PMAll jokes aside, there is no way I would pay money to have heads machined to accept HD ACRs knowing that the rocker boxes would have to be removed to replace them when (not if) they failed. I would seriously question any hack that offers to machine heads for ACRs without first offering up this as a solution. Crazy.

This is slick. Any concern with the length of the setup going into a small hole drilled into soft metal? I'd be concerned that a small bump against this could cause enough shear force to damage the head.


The engine shown (Taj-Ma-Motor) had 12.9 compression and cold cranked at 225 lbs. I pounded on it hard for six years to include riding coast to coast one week. Several issues with that engine over the years, long setup threaded into a small hole was not one of them.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

Don D


Barrett

I'm trying to educate myself on heads. I sent a new set of S$S 89cc 2" valved to Star and was told they come in at 300 CFM. I know most HD CVO/MVA heads with work come in a decent amount higher. I did a little research and found a formula, but it was for car heads. I had a set of big rig chevy heads that were super small compared to L88 heads. I do know they're two different worlds apart in the RPM range. The question is does this apply to Harleys also? If so, I think I'm okay at 300 CFM for a 117".
Step 1
Multiply the engine's highest expected revolutions per minute (RPMs) by the displacement of the engine, as measured in cubic inches. For example, if the engine is not expected to reach speeds in excess of 6,000 RPMs, and if the size of the engine is 350 cubic inches, then 6,000 x 350 = 2,100,000.

Step 2
Divide the result from Step 1 by 3,456. For example, 2,100,000 / 3,456 = 607.638.

Multiply the result from Step 3 by .85, which represents a standard street engine's volumetric efficiency. For example, 607.638 x .85 = 516.49. Therefore, the engine should be equipped with a fuel delivery system capable of providing between 500 and 550 CFM.


 

Ohio HD

December 07, 2021, 09:57:32 PM #24 Last Edit: December 07, 2021, 10:43:19 PM by Ohio HD
I could be wrong, but in the formula, what is the result desired? Should be horsepower, not RPM?

I guess my meaning is a 350 Chevy with only a 550 cfm total feed, how much HP does that make? As you add compression, more radical came, you need for fuel and air.

The formula above means a 124" to run 6,500 rpm needs 198 cfm. Sounds low to me. I know the 117" I bought from Ray was pushing in the neighborhood of 340 cfm. Both sets of heads I have for my 124" motors are over 340 cfm.