Setting compression after CC'ing heads.

[billbuilds]

   It is unreasonable to expect a shop that CC'd my heads and supposedly decked them .030 to be able to tell me what the new volume of those heads is?

[hrdtail78]

I don't think so.  Seems they would of been cc'd after to make sure they were the same.

[billbuilds]

     I really thought that that was part of what i was paying for. The round trip ride alone was close to $70. I will not go on a bash as it's not allowed but I have to say that we should all be able to expect a little better from someone who hangs his shingle out here.

[Ohio HD]

I guess it depends on what you asked for. If you asked for a specific amount to be removed, like the 0.030". That's what they would do.

If you said to them, I want heads to be 82cc, then they would machine and check cc to get that amount.

Maybe there was unclear communication as to what was expected?

[tdrglide]

Purchase a burette. I always like to double check. No matter who cc'd or decked the heads

[billbuilds]

      We did a fair amount of talking, initially via email then via phone. He knew what cam I had, we discussed the compression ratio we agreed to shoot for. Did he actually measure and mill the heasd or did he just slap the 10.25-1 pstons in and call it good? If he can't tell me the volume of my heads then how did he "set the compression" as he put it? From what I've learned here I really need to know the deck height to be able to "set the compression" via thickness of head gasket or milling of bottom of jug.
     Furthermore, when he called to tell me that the parts were ready I asked him  how much he milled off the heads to get the the agreed upon comp ratio and he clearly said thirty thou. I mean, if he knew how much he milled off my heads how can he not know what the resulting volume is?  I did not pay good money to play guessing games.

[Buglet]

   Bill that's must be the new way of doing business, talk in circles. That being said he should of being able to tell you what CC's he was shooting for. It came up a while back about head porters of who keeps track about the heads they do. To my surprise I think there was only one head porter that said. In todays world get it out the door worry about it later if it comes up.       

[billbuilds]

Purchase a burette. I always like to double check. No matter who cc'd or decked the heads

     Thought about doing that before I even sent them out the door and I should have listened to my gut.

[Don D]

You need a class A glass burette, preferable 100cc. They are not easy to find and are expensive. The two classes are Class A and Class B. Class A pipettes are manufactured to precise tolerances, or "error limits". Class B are allowed twice the error limits of Class A. The class specification or serial number of Class B are not marked.

[hbkeith]

I guess it depends on what you asked for. If you asked for a specific amount to be removed, like the 0.030". That's what they would do.

If you said to them, I want heads to be 82cc, then they would machine and check cc to get that amount.

Maybe there was unclear communication as to what was expected?

I agree , and if you had to ask how much was milled off after the work was done , you didn't discuss enough before hand

[Buglet]

  How far off is the class B say at 80cc?

[Buglet]

  I would thing if someone takes of .030 they should know what they were expecting for how many CC's they were aiming for. Or do you just take .030 of and call it good with out checking.

[Don D]

How far off is the class B say at 80cc?

The standard, +/- .004% VS .008%
For further clarification, if wanted, read up on ISO 102 and DIN 12664
We are assuming the burette carries a class rating at all. I threw away a few plastic burettes when I tested them with a known standard that exceeded class A, a digital bottletop dispenser I borrowed.
Many of the off brand plastic burettes are not rated.
In my experience a knockoff plastic burette can be a full CC or greater off at 80cc
Today I use a 120cc class A burette after I went through the weeds with cheap junk. It also has a glass valve that can be cleaned.

[Ohio HD]

Bill you can get a 100ml class A Burette and stand for about $70. It won't be heavy duty, but for once and awhile use, it will do. 

Amazon has several style to pick from.

[Don D]

A good value for occasional use. Pyrex is my preference.

[PoorUB]

We did a fair amount of talking, initially via email then via phone. He knew what cam I had, we discussed the compression ratio we agreed to shoot for. Did he actually measure and mill the heasd or did he just slap the 10.25-1 pstons in and call it good? If he can't tell me the volume of my heads then how did he "set the compression" as he put it? From what I've learned here I really need to know the deck height to be able to "set the compression" via thickness of head gasket or milling of bottom of jug.
     Furthermore, when he called to tell me that the parts were ready I asked him  how much he milled off the heads to get the the agreed upon comp ratio and he clearly said thirty thou. I mean, if he knew how much he milled off my heads how can he not know what the resulting volume is?  I did not pay good money to play guessing games.

Personally, if I had CC'd the heads my answer might be I wasn't certain, but around .030". I asked a local shop if they would mill and CC my heads and got a blank stare. I could have sent them away, but I wanted it done ASAP. I ended up CC'ing the heads and making a guesstimate of how much material to remove and surprisingly they came back perfect. I was prepared to send them back if they needed more taken off.

[Buglet]

  Thanks Don That's good to know I have to check mine out to see how far off it is.

[billbuilds]

Bill you can get a 100ml class A Burette and stand for about $70. It won't be heavy duty, but for once and awhile use, it will do. 

Amazon has several style to pick from.

      Brian, I'm lookingat a 50ml on Amazon that is .1ml graduatons and .05ml tolerance

Bill you can get a 100ml class A Burette and stand for about $70. It won't be heavy duty, but for once and awhile use, it will do. 

Amazon has several style to pick from.

    Looking on Amazon now. See a Schellbach glass 100ml class A burette by Eisco labs. It's got 4.5 star rating and is only $34.09. I would magine that it would be wise to buy a stand to hold the thing? 

[billbuilds]

A good value for occasional use. Pyrex is my preference.

    Thanks. Any idea how borosilicate glass compares to Pyrex?. When I search Pyrex 100ml burettes the borosilicate ones show near the top of the list.

[Ohio HD]

Looking on Amazon now. See a Schellbach glass 100ml class A burette by Eisco labs. It's got 4.5 star rating and is only $34.09. I would magine that it would be wise to buy a stand to hold the thing? 

Yes, they have some moderate priced stands in about the $35 to $40 range. If you can buy one with duel mounts instead of a single mount for the tube, they're more steady. What I mean is teh glass tube will stay located over the plexiglass plate better.

You also need one of these.
Clear Plate

Or you can get the entire kit.
Summit Racing

[PoorUB]

Bill you can get a 100ml class A Burette and stand for about $70. It won't be heavy duty, but for once and awhile use, it will do. 

Amazon has several style to pick from.

      Brian, I'm lookingat a 50ml on Amazon that is .1ml graduatons and .05ml tolerance

Bill you can get a 100ml class A Burette and stand for about $70. It won't be heavy duty, but for once and awhile use, it will do. 

Amazon has several style to pick from.

    Looking on Amazon now. See a Schellbach glass 100ml class A burette by Eisco labs. It's got 4.5 star rating and is only $34.09. I would magine that it would be wise to buy a stand to hold the thing? 

I didn't buy the stand as I rarely use it and I have enough stuff to store away. I did have something that worked with some rubber bands holding the burette. I had a scrap piece of plexiglass laying around so I cut a square out of it and drilled a hole and put a large chamfer for a "funnel".

[billbuilds]

     Thanks, poorUB. I've got all kinds of stuff laying around to make someting out of. I don't want to cheap out but I'm not exactly awa$h in it.

[FXDBI]

Go to a vet supply store and buy a 100cc syringe, the hardware store for piece of plexiglass. Drill a hole in the plexiglass and test each one a few times to check repeatability. Its accurate enough for what your doing. I have also used a syringe to check valve pocket totals on flat top pistons. The calculations have worked for me using this method and the bigboyz calculator. No ISO standard but then I am building my own not providing a service. My heads came in @ 83cc just has the porter said. He also used to stamp the heads and keep a full report of the work done. The syringe cost me like $10 back then, now a days most hydroponics shops also carry them.  Okay you all can flame me now...but its cheap and it works for me.   Bob

[billbuilds]

     That's not a bad idea Bob. We have a Tractor Supply and a Blue Seal Feed & Needs store on the outskirts of town. Thanks for mentioing, Bill

[PoorUB]

Also, if you cut a piece of plexy to make a cover for the cylinder head, drill the hole way off center and prop the head up at a slight angle with the hole up at the top edge of the chamber. A bit of grease to seal the plexy and fill'er up! any air can escape the hole. Other wise you end up fighting air bubbles.