103 HO cams in 96"?

[Nebraskarider1]

I'm going to do a low budget top end on my 09 Ultra with 118k on it, using oil. I'm getting a set of taken off at 3 miles jugs and pistons and some heads with 20k on them, and I can get a set of 103 HO cams for little of nothing. I'm not finding specs anywhere on those particular cams, think they are 2014? and up Rushmore bikes. Would they be a decent choice? Stock got me around for 118k just fine so not really looking for any major gains just a little more than stock if these will do that. Thanks

[Tail Ridr]

     Camshaft   IVO IVC   IV lift   IV*   IN LC   EVO EVC   EV lift   EV*   EX LC  Overlap  LSA

      OEM 07-13  -12  30    .484   198     111    38    4     .484   220     107     -8     109
       OEM HO     2   30    .511   212     104    43   10     .511   233     106.5   13     105.3

[60Gunner]

Not sure what you're paying for those take offs but $550-$600 you can bore your own to 103 or 107.
Way better cams available too. Even staying at 96.
I wouldn't waste my time. Sorry. Doesn't make sense really.

[Hossamania]

Not sure what you're paying for those take offs but $550-$600 you can bore your own to 103 or 107.
Way better cams available too. Even staying at 96.
I wouldn't waste my time. Sorry. Doesn't make sense really.

I guess that depends on how low budget the op is looking at.

[Ohio HD]

If you just want more get up and go, and not looking to pin the speedometer, have your cylinders bored to the next oversize, get OEM HD pistons, you already know they last a long time. Have a valve job done on your heads. By Andrews 48 cams, and have it tuned.

This is my 09 Ultra, stock 96" with Andrews 48 cams, new lifters. Professional tune, and good exhaust. You can also run your stock pushrods with these cams.


2009 Ultra with Andrews 48 cams

[kd]

That's a great option.  Orrr .... if you are going to buy oem pistons consider boring to 103. Same price for 7 more cu.in..  Throw a .030 head gasket in and Bob's yur uncle.  If there's a valve job in the mix a multi angle grind while doing it will make a difference also.

[Ohio HD]

You can go 103, but the cost to bore goes up due to my uncle Bob taking more machining time.   

The 103 motors I've seen with the same setup are marginally better.

[Nebraskarider1]

I guess I put too much information and took the focus off of my main question which is it is would the 103HO cams be of any benefit while I'm doing cam bearings, lifters and anything else needed in the cam chest? Cams are $0 cost, rest of engine is stock 96, slip ons, a/c, will re-tune with Powervision.

[rigidthumper]

They are a bit better than the stock 96" cams- good at that price.

[Hossamania]

I would definitely use those cams at that price.

[60Gunner]

What's the compression of a 103HO? And a stock 96? Those cams were nothing to write home about in the 103HO. They'll be worse in a 96.
The 48s would be light years better.

[Hossamania]

Keep in mind, "low buck top end rebuild." Will the free HO103 cams work better than, or at least as well as the stock cams that are coming out? That is the question the op is asking. He is not looking to build a fire breather, just a comparable motor to what he has.

[60Gunner]

Keep in mind, "low buck top end rebuild." Will the free HO103 cams work better than, or at least as well as the stock cams that are coming out? That is the question the op is asking. He is not looking to build a fire breather, just a comparable motor to what he has.

There's a reason they're free...just sayin. But his bike.
103HO is 9.7:1. A 96 is 9.2:1.

[Hossamania]

While those cams will be worse in a 96" than they were in a 103", the question remains, will they be better or worse than the stock cams?

[Hossamania]

And if they need a little more compression to work better, will a thinner head gasket help, or is it not going to make much difference at that point?

[60Gunner]

And if they need a little more compression to work better, will a thinner head gasket help, or is it not going to make much difference at that point?

A little. It will make it more like 9.4, 9.5. and should be done regardless for a better squish(improved burn in the chamber).
Don't forget to do the cam bearings and good luck with your project whatever you do.

[Chief0299]

Real world experience...

None with the "high output" cams.

I have installed used SE255's in two different bikes. One was a 2010 96" ultra. .030 MLS head gasket, tune from fuel moto for powervision. Bike sounds great and pulls strong across the rpm range.

2nd bike, 2014 ultra. 103" engine. Installed used SE255's and .030 MLS head gasket. Slip ons, stage 1 air filter, fuel moto powervision tune. Bike sounded like a dragster til I ran some auto tunes. Runs amazingly well and catches people off guard. I expected the power to drop off at around 4k revs, but it pulls all the way to the governor.

[jsachs1]

Bargen basement power that gets it. 96" SE 255 cams, usually an inexpensive find. Combo works very well, with a good tune up.
John

[Nebraskarider1]

While those cams will be worse in a 96" than they were in a 103", the question remains, will they be better or worse than the stock cams?

 Thank you sounds like they will be a minor upgrade with a .030" head gasket, not expecting much gain and can't complain for the price. 

[kd]

Your going to have to pay for a tuner AND a tune with the free cam change.  Think carefully about that value.  Based on some real good experienced advice here, for very little money, a set of takeout 255's would be my way of getting full value for the 600 - 800 dollars you'll spend on the tuner and tuning.  Then it will be a full faced smile and years of it with the fresh cylinders and pistons. (rings?) 

I don't think anyone is trying to talk you out of using your free cams.  I do think they are thinking about your satisfaction for dollars spent when you include a tuner and tune. Just my opinion but it's definitely your choice.

[Nebraskarider1]

Your going to have to pay for a tuner AND a tune with the free cam change.  Think carefully about that value.  Based on some real good experienced advice here, for very little money, a set of takeout 255's would be my way of getting full value for the 600 - 800 dollars you'll spend on the tuner and tuning.  Then it will be a full faced smile and years of it with the fresh cylinders and pistons. (rings?) 

I don't think anyone is trying to talk you out of using your free cams.  I do think they are thinking about your satisfaction for dollars spent when you include a tuner and tune. Just my opinion but it's definitely your choice.

Is it the "F" word (free) part that triggers everyone or the stock part?    They are off the table as of now anyway, the guy I was getting them from (who happens to be a vendor on here which I won't name) put them in another guys bike last month. No big deal and no hard feelings I should have grabbed them when he offered them to me last fall.
As far as tuning I have a PV (from another vendor on here with lifetime map support) plus I'm familiar with using auto tune so I wasn't too worried about that part. So for now I'll be using the original cams IF they look decent enough to put new lifters on.

Anyway thanks to all who chimed in good, bad or otherwise, I been on these boards a long time but haven't needed anything in a long time. When I had my Evo I was on here all the time!! Now with 2 twin cam bikes it's few and far in between repairs, just service, tires and ride

 

[Finn]

FWIW after one riding season with stock 103 HO cams in I had them replaced with CR570-2 and I'm glad I did. Stock cams did fairly OK but the new ones let the engine breathe freely - as it should. Buddy has Andrews 48 in his 103 and is very happy with those. I believe there are several other alternatives available too.

[Hossamania]

I honestly would have a hard time putting the stock cams back in just because I know how well a better cam will work. Since you already have the tuner that cost is off the table. I know the budget would grow, but to me it is a justifiable expense.
Good luck with your build whichever way you go!

[60Gunner]

I can't recommend the 255s either. They're heat monsters and they die off well before redline.
Even many that WANT torque cams that die early end up pulling them due to heat. That's why you can find them used for cheap.

[Ohio HD]

I can't recommend the 255s either. They're heat monsters and they die off well before redline.
Even many that WANT torque cams that die early end up pulling them due to heat. That's why you can find them used for cheap.

Heat is due to a lean tune, not the cams. The CVO 110 motors are larger, they're create more heat, and they're tuned for EPA. Tune them for proper AFR with proper timing, they run very well and as cool as any other motor.

[kd]

I can't recommend the 255s either. They're heat monsters and they die off well before redline.
Even many that WANT torque cams that die early end up pulling them due to heat. That's why you can find them used for cheap.

Heat is due to a lean tune, not the cams. The CVO 110 motors are larger, they're create more heat, and they're tuned for EPA. Tune them for proper AFR with proper timing, they run very well and as cool as any other motor.

  It's almost always about the tune.  A custom map, auto tune or the FP3 probably won't cut it.  It will take a real tune with a tuner and operator that knows what they are doing with a device that has the capabilities and enough cells to accomplish a good tune on a dyno.

[Trev T]

The rushmore bikes ran really good in stock form with a good stage 1 on them for "stock" cams. Having put a set of rushmore cams in a stock 96 with a .030 gasket I can say they are much better than the no overlap small lift one dot/two dot cam set. If being budget minded any improvement is worth it. light years better no, much improved yes.

[60Gunner]

I honestly would have a hard time putting the stock cams back in just because I know how well a better cam will work. Since you already have the tuner that cost is off the table. I know the budget would grow, but to me it is a justifiable expense.
Good luck with your build whichever way you go!

I didn't put 20 miles on my stage 1 103 after buying it used before ripping them out. Just made me sick
having spent good money on a bike with those cams. True story. 20 miles and they were paper weights. Thru a set of S&S 570s and a set of .030s in and I could look myse!f in the mirror again.
I would've pimped my ass out on the corner of 4th & Main to get it done if I had to.
$270 for those $570s brand new.

[Trev T]

I agree the no/low power cams should be tossed on any twin cam of that era. the rushmore cams are different than the one dot/two dot 07-13 TC 96/103 cam sets that your 2013 FLSTC  would have come with. My wife's 2011 FLSTC had those crappy no overlap stock cams for a week, S&S 551's went in that one with V&H longshots. 

[Nebraskarider1]

I honestly would have a hard time putting the stock cams back in just because I know how well a better cam will work. Since you already have the tuner that cost is off the table. I know the budget would grow, but to me it is a justifiable expense.
Good luck with your build whichever way you go!

I didn't put 20 miles on my stage 1 103 after buying it used before ripping them out. Just made me sick
having spent good money on a bike with those cams. True story. 20 miles and they were paper weights. Thru a set of S&S 570s and a set of .030s in and I could look myse!f in the mirror again.
I would've pimped my ass out on the corner of 4th & Main to get it done if I had to.
$270 for those $570s brand new.

If I was desperate enough to do that I'd go for a whole new bike. It's not whether I have the money or not but where I choose to spend it. I have another bike with only 20k on it. The bike has 118k on it and has never been opened up. Stock cams got me around reliably for 118k just fine and will continue, as long as the 118k bottom end or something else decides not to take a 💩