Excessive breather puke

[Ohio HD]

Not unless someone used some strange fastener. The plugs are only 0.500" thick. I'd be more concerned who ever drilled the case went too deep on the return or feed line. Either one could dump oil into the cam chest if they're drilled too deep and broke through. ONLY the vent line should be drilled all the way through the case. The feed and return only deep enough to meet the oil passages in the case.



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[FLDavetrain]

I questioned that based on a clip Luke over at Feuling did where the (m8) cases due to factory tolerances would sometimes have that plug area recessed too much and the fastener would disturb the pick up causing a sump issue, he just ground down the plug. Just thought I'd toss that Hail Mary.

[FLDavetrain]

Here's the drill case set up. Not Vulcan, my guy has his own copy but does them one size up. Could be 3/8 drill to the vulcan 5/16? Not positive on that tho. Would the larger passage potentially cause a problem?

[Ohio HD]

Vulcan drills them @ 0.375". This is mainly because that's the rubber hose ID that's used on earlier TC motors that use rubber lines. Also 0.375" is what size rubber lines S&S supplies with their oil line kit.

HD OEM drills about 0.525".

What I've been saying is "IF" some one drills the feed or return too deep, and breaks through the case to the cam chest, it would explain where all the oil is coming from. Can't check that until the cam chest comes apart. It also would have to have been a problem from day one is this were the case. Also since he uses some other method to locate the holes to be drilled, there is always the chance the return is off location. I'm not saying it is, but could be. I test the drill operation by blowing compressed air from the cam plate oil passages to the newly drilled holes. You should get lots of air coming through. That has to be done before the case is mounted to the transmission.

If a leak down doesn't spot any troubles. Then the motor needs to come apart to find the issue. Like I said, a stuck piston jet, a loose piston jet, oil pump o-ring, oil pump return damage, restricted oil drains in the heads, etc.


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[FLDavetrain]

I read you. So right this was not an issue for roughly 1200 miles so case damage probably not. I'll leak down next, my compression was good (not expecting 12 psi difference). Then I will swap the pan and try suctioning on the feed/return. Can anything (structurally) move at bottom of these pans if shook tossed around enough? I know there not like other models w removable baffle.
And back to an earlier post, the over glued oem stamped breathers I removed had glue caked at edges when removed recently. Not detectable at install, once heated for many miles this stuff pushed its way out the edges. Could some have gotten in oil return? Possibly

[FXDBI]

I read you. So right this was not an issue for roughly 1200 miles so case damage probably not. I'll leak down next, my compression was good (not expecting 12 psi difference). Then I will swap the pan and try suctioning on the feed/return. Can anything (structurally) move at bottom of these pans if shook tossed around enough? I know there not like other models w removable baffle.
And back to an earlier post, the over glued oem stamped breathers I removed had glue caked at edges when removed recently. Not detectable at install, once heated for many miles this stuff pushed its way out the edges. Could some have gotten in oil return? Possibly

Did you do a compression test when the engine was fresh? If so has it changed?  Bob

[FLDavetrain]

I read you. So right this was not an issue for roughly 1200 miles so case damage probably not. I'll leak down next, my compression was good (not expecting 12 psi difference). Then I will swap the pan and try suctioning on the feed/return. Can anything (structurally) move at bottom of these pans if shook tossed around enough? I know there not like other models w removable baffle.
And back to an earlier post, the over glued oem stamped breathers I removed had glue caked at edges when removed recently. Not detectable at install, once heated for many miles this stuff pushed its way out the edges. Could some have gotten in oil return? Possibly

Did you do a compression test when the engine was fresh? If so has it changed?  Bob

No. This was first and 198-200psi mark was the calculated target from onset. So all good there

[98fxstc]

I read you. So right this was not an issue for roughly 1200 miles so case damage probably not. I'll leak down next, my compression was good (not expecting 12 psi difference). Then I will swap the pan and try suctioning on the feed/return. Can anything (structurally) move at bottom of these pans if shook tossed around enough? I know there not like other models w removable baffle.
And back to an earlier post, the over glued oem stamped breathers I removed had glue caked at edges when removed recently. Not detectable at install, once heated for many miles this stuff pushed its way out the edges. Could some have gotten in oil return? Possibly

Did you do a compression test when the engine was fresh? If so has it changed?  Bob

No. This was first and 198-200psi mark was the calculated target from onset. So all good there

Not wondering why front is 12 psi higher ?

[FLDavetrain]

I read you. So right this was not an issue for roughly 1200 miles so case damage probably not. I'll leak down next, my compression was good (not expecting 12 psi difference). Then I will swap the pan and try suctioning on the feed/return. Can anything (structurally) move at bottom of these pans if shook tossed around enough? I know there not like other models w removable baffle.
And back to an earlier post, the over glued oem stamped breathers I removed had glue caked at edges when removed recently. Not detectable at install, once heated for many miles this stuff pushed its way out the edges. Could some have gotten in oil return? Possibly

Did you do a compression test when the engine was fresh? If so has it changed?  Bob

No. This was first and 198-200psi mark was the calculated target from onset. So all good there

Not wondering why front is 12 psi higher ?

Front was 209 actually so 11 psi I agree wasn't the plan and I didn't verify the chamber volume. Like I said the target was 198. Better than being under 

[kd]

I read you. So right this was not an issue for roughly 1200 miles so case damage probably not. I'll leak down next, my compression was good (not expecting 12 psi difference). Then I will swap the pan and try suctioning on the feed/return. Can anything (structurally) move at bottom of these pans if shook tossed around enough? I know there not like other models w removable baffle.
And back to an earlier post, the over glued oem stamped breathers I removed had glue caked at edges when removed recently. Not detectable at install, once heated for many miles this stuff pushed its way out the edges. Could some have gotten in oil return? Possibly

Did you do a compression test when the engine was fresh? If so has it changed?  Bob

No. This was first and 198-200psi mark was the calculated target from onset. So all good there

Not wondering why front is 12 psi higher ?

Front was 209 actually so 11 psi I agree wasn't the plan and I didn't verify the chamber volume. Like I said the target was 198. Better than being under 

Which one did you test first and did you use a booster for the second one to ensure the same cranking speed.  That could account for a difference if not.

[FXDBI]

I asked because it would be your baseline. Thats what I do anyhow only was to really know if you hit your target and its even on both cylinders. I also check with each oil change to see if its changed. A leak down test would be the prudent thing to do instead of just assuming all is well.  Bob

[FLDavetrain]

I asked because it would be your baseline. Thats what I do anyhow only was to really know if you hit your target and its even on both cylinders. I also check with each oil change to see if its changed. A leak down test would be the prudent thing to do instead of just assuming all is well.  Bob

Nice protocol. And leak down coming soon as that fancy tool arrives

[FLDavetrain]

I read you. So right this was not an issue for roughly 1200 miles so case damage probably not. I'll leak down next, my compression was good (not expecting 12 psi difference). Then I will swap the pan and try suctioning on the feed/return. Can anything (structurally) move at bottom of these pans if shook tossed around enough? I know there not like other models w removable baffle.
And back to an earlier post, the over glued oem stamped breathers I removed had glue caked at edges when removed recently. Not detectable at install, once heated for many miles this stuff pushed its way out the edges. Could some have gotten in oil return? Possibly

Did you do a compression test when the engine was fresh? If so has it changed?  Bob

No. This was first and 198-200psi mark was the calculated target from onset. So all good there

Not wondering why front is 12 psi higher ?

Front was 209 actually so 11 psi I agree wasn't the plan and I didn't verify the chamber volume. Like I said the target was 198. Better than being under 

Which one did you test first and did you use a booster for the second one to ensure the same cranking speed.  That could account for a difference if not.

Rear went first. Kept trickle charger on whole time, that's as complex as I do it.

[FLDavetrain]

Update. That pretty blue jims crank sensor plug not sitting flush no matter what I do. Too much cursing, ready to burry it and move on

[Ohio HD]

You have to turn the flywheel slightly forward or rearward to allow the lock tool to seat in between the crankshaft teeth.


Jim's 753 Flywheel Lock Tool

[FLDavetrain]

Should've mentioned, I've tried all that. Called jims, correct part #. Only Q is if the R&R wheels cut diff?

[FLDavetrain]

So my comments next aren't necessary aimed at any shop/builder involved w this issue/set up on the T2 cases.
I've simply had it. Cam chest looked great, zero debris and i continued to redo the entire chest as if installing for first time. Pump looked perfect. Added a drain plug oring to spigot in attempt to get tighter seal. No blockages to be found. Test ride, and sumping/puking same ol crap.
The 2 constants on this and the previous build are the cases, the drilling for stock oiling, and the flywheels. Both sumped and despite taking every attempt to cool the motor (fans, cooler) and no long haul rides (mostly 10-20 mile range) occasionally slightly more, this build combo has been a colossal disappointment. Chasing a ghost and rebuilding areas is not the answer I believe. This alteration of the cases is a crap shoot. Beware. Other problems in other companies experiences on this very topic have been a problem I've recently learned. Should've used OEM cases, or SnS with external oiling kit. Feel free to ask any detail I can answer or your experience on this case modification. Note: this build did ok for first 1000 or so and was mildly sumping imo. It was never as stout feeling as my other 131 despite having even "better" parts.

[Don D]

Question answered with question, have you checked the engine for sumping?

[FLDavetrain]

Question answered with question, have you checked the engine for sumping?

2 dozens times at least. At best 13 oz. Last few hundred miles it's been 24 ish

[Ohio HD]

So you have no conclusive cause for the problem. By conclusive, meaning it can be fixed. I know a few guys on this site that have used the T2 cases with OEM TC oiling, and have not experienced the same issues that you have.

There's an answer there somewhere. 

If its me, and I'm takin the top end off. The oiler jets are being tested next. They need to start pumping at about 10 PSI, then by 20 PSI be flowing full force. Also if they don't shut off, the sump fills.

I also would want to confirm that the oil lines drill into the case are working as they should. Motor would need to come out. 


If you want to have the oilers tested, I can do that for you. Just send them, I'll test them and send them back. No charges, just helping out. A piston oiler cold have been working, then got dirt or a metal spec into one or both, then they may stay open.

[FLDavetrain]

So you have no conclusive cause for the problem. By conclusive, meaning it can be fixed. I know a few guys on this site that have used the T2 cases with OEM TC oiling, and have not experienced the same issues that you have.

There's an answer there somewhere. 

If its me, and I'm takin the top end off. The oiler jets are being tested next. They need to start pumping at about 10 PSI, then by 20 PSI be flowing full force. Also if they don't shut off, the sump fills.

I also would want to confirm that the oil lines drill into the case are working as they should. Motor would need to come out. 


If you want to have the oilers tested, I can do that for you. Just send them, I'll test them and send them back. No charges, just helping out. A piston oiler cold have been working, then got dirt or a metal spec into one or both, then they may stay open.

Agree, there must be a reason. And thanks for the offer which I possibly will accept. Help me understand, if the test ride is a 10 mile loop with no hot idle, the psi never gets below 27-30 so jets always open. That's normal operation. How does your debris explanation change that scenario if you don't mind l. If clogged up and not flowing, the pistons would've crapped out long time ago

[Ohio HD]

So you have no conclusive cause for the problem. By conclusive, meaning it can be fixed. I know a few guys on this site that have used the T2 cases with OEM TC oiling, and have not experienced the same issues that you have.

There's an answer there somewhere. 

If its me, and I'm takin the top end off. The oiler jets are being tested next. They need to start pumping at about 10 PSI, then by 20 PSI be flowing full force. Also if they don't shut off, the sump fills.

I also would want to confirm that the oil lines drill into the case are working as they should. Motor would need to come out. 


If you want to have the oilers tested, I can do that for you. Just send them, I'll test them and send them back. No charges, just helping out. A piston oiler cold have been working, then got dirt or a metal spec into one or both, then they may stay open.

Agree, there must be a reason. And thanks for the offer which I possibly will accept. Help me understand, if the test ride is a 10 mile loop with no hot idle, the psi never gets below 27-30 so jets always open. That's normal operation. How does your debris explanation change that scenario if you don't mind l. If clogged up and not flowing, the pistons would've crapped out long time ago

The valves can be stuck open by dirt or an aluminum / steel particle. If you're saying you don't see less than 27 lbs, even at idle. Well that's a problem there.

At lower ROM's the scavenge side of the pump probably can't keep up. Then no doubt the oilers are open and spraying at full force. They open to full spray around 20 PSI. As well you may be flooding the heads with too much oil from pressure at lower rpm.

[FLDavetrain]

So you have no conclusive cause for the problem. By conclusive, meaning it can be fixed. I know a few guys on this site that have used the T2 cases with OEM TC oiling, and have not experienced the same issues that you have.

There's an answer there somewhere. 

If its me, and I'm takin the top end off. The oiler jets are being tested next. They need to start pumping at about 10 PSI, then by 20 PSI be flowing full force. Also if they don't shut off, the sump fills.

I also would want to confirm that the oil lines drill into the case are working as they should. Motor would need to come out. 


If you want to have the oilers tested, I can do that for you. Just send them, I'll test them and send them back. No charges, just helping out. A piston oiler cold have been working, then got dirt or a metal spec into one or both, then they may stay open.

Agree, there must be a reason. And thanks for the offer which I possibly will accept. Help me understand, if the test ride is a 10 mile loop with no hot idle, the psi never gets below 27-30 so jets always open. That's normal operation. How does your debris explanation change that scenario if you don't mind l. If clogged up and not flowing, the pistons would've crapped out long time ago

If you're saying you don't see less than 27 lbs, even at idle

If you read my comment I said essentially..... "picture a long country road with no lights, stops etc, the psi will not drop below 20 in mine or any bike" that's my point, under those conditions it sumps and dumps

[FLDavetrain]

Just a thought, the flywheel shaft feeds the rod bearings, could there be over oiling there? Just curious if I need that checked when all this comes apart.

[Don D]

Maybe too much oil going to the top. Can be front several causes. Also drain back slow or restricted. Passages in heads should be .310