Oil Pressure after top end rebuild

[billbuilds]

     I have a 99 carbed Road King that I just redid a 98" top end on with newly bored seasoned jugs and new pistons. The heads were cleaned up and given a valve job. The problem I'm having is that the oil pressure light won't go out after a fair amount of cranking w/o the plugs in. There's a new filter and three quarts of oil in the pan but no joy. I did not open up the cam chest and I'm quite certain that I got the rocker base gaskets installed correctly. If anybody has any ideas on what I might have slipped up on please let me know, I'm stumped. Bill 

[rigidthumper]

Spin the oil filter or the oil pressure sensor off and crank the starter- is oil coming out easily? If not, pump isn't receiving any fluid. Could be as simple as a pin hole in the feed line (causing an air lock).
If oil is readily coming out of the filter/pressure sensor hole, reinstall any removed items and fire it up- light should go out within a second or two.

[Wookie3011]

Just to clarify, I to had this issue. I was under the assumption that the oil light would go out before the engine started. I cranked for a while in 5-8 second bursts. I seen oil pressure on my guage that I installed. It had oil pressure but until I started it the light didn't go out. As soon as it fired up the light goes out. I have verified oil pressure and even removed the rocker covers to verify its reaching the top end. Don't know if this is the same setup for all harleys. Can anyone verify if the light should turn off before it starts vs after? I checked a few buddies bikes and there's is the same.

[Ohio HD]

Bill, I also run heat cycles with 10w30 or 10w40 oil. Oil throughout the motor faster, with less chance of air locking. After heat cycles I drain it and change the filter. Then put in 20w50 mineral based for the dyno, or if breaking it in on the road.

[Ohio HD]

The oil light will go out when cranking the motor, "if" oil gets to the pressure switch.

[billbuilds]

     I backed off the filter and the oil poured out at the filter mount gasket mating surface. I didn't want to make a further mess so I spun it back on. It would seem that the pump is getting oil to the filter or could that be a false assumption? I had already put Valvoline VR1 20w50 in there per Don's suggestion. I've only done one other Twin Cam top end rebuild and I could swear that the oil light went out after a bit of cranking.  y

[Fugawee]

I don't know if this is a good, or bad for You.  But in Your 1st post You mention that there are 3 quarts of oil in the pan.  Shouldn't there be 4 quarts?  Unless there is a reason You only put 3 in, or a typo.

[billbuilds]

     Fug, yes, I know it takes four quarts but just to start it and run a two or three minute heat cycle I figured three would be ok and then I'd check the level and add some. I took the filter right off and cranked it over and l does come out the filter port but went to start it and clatter clatter along with oil light. Just ran a few seconds but could hear it wasn't right. Now I am bumming severely. Should have had this all wrapped up by now I have to tear it all down again. I thought that I had my    half way together but apparently not.   

[billbuilds]

Spin the oil filter or the oil pressure sensor off and crank the starter- is oil coming out easily? If not, pump isn't receiving any fluid. Could be as simple as a pin hole in the feed line (causing an air lock).
If oil is readily coming out of the filter/pressure sensor hole, reinstall any removed items and fire it up- light should go out within a second or two.

     Those two lines are the original ones, probably should get some new ones and see if helps.   Thanks all for the replies. Bill

[Fugawee]

Fug, yes, I know it takes four quarts but just to start it and run a two or three minute heat cycle I figured three would be ok and then I'd check the level and add some. I took the filter right off and cranked it over and l does come out the filter port but went to start it and clatter clatter along with oil light. Just ran a few seconds but could hear it wasn't right. Now I am bumming severely. Should have had this all wrapped up by now I have to tear it all down again. I thought that I had my    half way together but apparently not.   

Sorry to hear that Your having an issue.  I thought that maybe, just maybe the 4rth quart may have done the trick for You.  I know that this is a PITA.  But if this might make You feel a little better...I have similar luck.  I replaced cam tensioners on an 03' Heritage and was all happy.  Then I fired it up and heard chitty-chitty-bang-bang.  I hadn't adjusted the intake push-rods correctly.
Hope that You find the issue.  I wish I could offer more.  Good Luck.

[billbuilds]

    I took the pipes off this morning so that I could get the cover off and examine those oil lines. Any pliability that they had is gone, they're hard as a rock. I seriously doubt that the dealer has a single one in stock, I'll get them elsewhere and shipped right to home since the wait would be about the same.
    Pretty sure that I got the pushrods right. I have the 570ES's and you have to be careful of the exhaust pushrod adjustment due to the compression release lobe.  Even if I didn't (and that is certainly possible) the oil pressure is the big issue.
     Thanks for the moral support, will keep you posted.   Bill

[rigidthumper]

When you get the new lines on, wrap your air gun nozzle with a rag (to give a bit of a seal), pull the dipstick, and shoot a little air pressure through the oil fill opening while cranking the starter- this is a redneck way of priming the pump

[billbuilds]

     Thanks for the tip, rigidthumper. I found a 10 year old thread in the archives yesterday where Ron Rabos suggests using a hand vacuum pump/bake bleed tool to make sure that oil is getting from the pan into the cam plate. I got a decent deal on one at AutoZone (not quite the caliber of the one Ron bought for himself but not bad) The nearby dealer only had one oil line so I took the longer and paid the longer dollar. Got the oil lines installed this afternoon and used the vacuum pump to verify that I do have oil coming thru that feed hole in the cam chest. Will put pump, plate and pushrods back in tomorrrow. Bill

[billbuilds]

     Went to put the pump back together and saw that it wasn't as decent as I'd thought - evidence of debris having chewed on a couple of return teeth. The Cyco tensioners are not in great shape either and I just could not see reinstalling as is. But things are kind of tight so I figured to get me thru the season they'll be ok. In the back of my mind I have the condition of the rocker arm pads which I probably should have replaced but I pressed on.
     Got the Smith Brothers quickie pushrods adjusted on the rear cylinder and after bleed down I was rotating the motor over and using a plastic drinking straw to find TDC on the front cylinder when I did something really, really stupid. I dropped the slightly shortened drinking straw down the plug hole. Yep, boned it up good! So I had to step away for a bit and then came to the realization that I needed to pull the front head. Now I still haven't smartened up to the point of dropping the coin for the quick disconnect for the gas tank so of course I have that joy to start off with. Here's me and my clone     
     I get the straw out and the head retorqued and start to "re" inspect the rocker arm pads then realize that I'm an idiot to be using them since three of the four pads have wear consistent with having bounced off the valve stem from over revving. I needed to get away from spring loaded tensioners.
     So I said to heck with putting a new roof on the garage this Spring, let's spend some money on a decent pump and a hydraulic hydraulic plate. Oh, and don't forget, you'll need the cam pressing tool and a shop press. Cha ching. Oh well, Harbor Freight just happened to be having a sidewalk sale and I got $50 off cost of the 20 ton H-frame. I'd been wanting a shop press for ages. Still need rocker arms though.
     My apology for just dropping off the page, was off licking my wounds. Now maybe I can have this thing up and running in another week or so.  Bill
     
           

[CndUltra88]

Nothing like regrouping for another chance to fix it.
Rob

[Hossamania]

Good call, screw the garage roof! That's why they make tarps

[kd]

I'd wait until the price of building material goes down too. 

[billbuilds]

     After putting in the blue team's pump and cam plate along with new oil lines, new rocker arms & shafts  I still have noise. I thought I was in good shape as the oil light went out after four or five whirls of the starter but once I started it    . The lifters are B's with about 14K on them. Pushrods are Smith Brothers easy install out four full turns from zero lash. This sound is kind of like piston slap to my untrained ear. I didn't have any problem with noise or clattering the first time I built this to 98". This build has turned into a nightmare. Haven't had a drink in over 30 months but that may change. Bill

[billbuilds]

     I'm going to start out by removing the pushrods and making sure that I got all of the lifters direction oriented correctly.  I have a nagging suspicion...

[Coyote]

Didn't think it matters which way you install them on a TC.

[Ohio HD]

Feuling says to locate the oil ports of the lifter towards the cylinders. Jim's USA says the exact opposite. Locate the oil ports of the lifters away from the cylinders. Since both companies would want the best access to oil volume and pressure, I've always concluded it doesn't matter.


Feuling Lifters


Jim's USA

[billbuilds]

     Thanks for the clarification. Guess I'm so exasperated that I'm starting to grasp at straws. It's not a lifter clatter noise anyhow, Sounds more like pistons/cylinders aren't getting enough oil. Looks like I'm going in again.
     

[Ohio HD]

The pistons and cylinders primarily get oil from the flywheels splashing it. The piston oilers are intended to squirt the underside of the piston to cool it, but I imagine that some of that oil is flunk to the cylinder walls. Before taking it apart, I'd put a manual gauge on the motor and see what the pressure really is.

[kd]

Feuling says to locate the oil ports of the lifter towards the cylinders. Jim's USA says the exact opposite. Locate the oil ports of the lifters away from the cylinders. Since both companies would want the best access to oil volume and pressure, I've always concluded it doesn't matter.


Feuling Lifters


Jim's USA

    Once the oil galleries are charged with oil after cranking, simple physics says the pressure is equal in all directions.  A fluid (and any air contamination) will follow the path of least resistance and therefore follow the oil holes into the lifter body and quickly charge the lifter with oil to make it functional.  Of course it will bleed out through the pushrods and if equipped, through the bleed hole to the rollers,  As this occurs the oil is constantly and consistently replaced by the oil pump into the oil galleries to the lifters and will keep them fully charged to feed new oil to the lifter bodies. Any initial air contamination will be expelled through the same route and a solid column of oil will form.  Again, simple physics. Like a garden hose feeding a lawn sprinkler. The cycle is continuous and common to all twin cam engines. There are probably millions of lifters installed not aligned with the cylinder side and functioning properly.

If you reduce the adjustment to 2 or 3 flats off the bottom for the thread pitch you have (effectively making them like solids and eliminating any chance one or more are collapsing), that should rule out the lifters if the noise persists.  In your opening post, you say the heads were treated to a "valve job".   Were the valves sunk at that time adding to the stem protrusion?  Is it possible you have rocker contact in the rocker boxes or cover?  That will sound more like a knock than a lifter tick.  A stethoscope may come in handy to pinpoint the actual location of the sound you are trying to describe.   This is best done before you disassemble or it will be a lost opportunity.  Can you post a sound clip video?

[FXDBI]

Any chance a pushrod rubbing the tube? Did u check the valve spring to lower rocker box ? Maybe you have a spring rubbing? Lots of places for noise to emulate from.   Bob