Viewing VE Tables

[Jim Bronson]

What is the easiest way to view learned VE tables following a PV Autotune session?

[hrdtail78]

I like Mega Log viewer for looking at Vision data files.

[kouack]

+1 to mega log is great program. Dynojet powercore can be used, but very limited compare to mega log!

[FXDBI]

I like Mega Log viewer for looking at Vision data files.

It wont read the logs from the wide band auto tune unless you buy the program $$$ for a guy doing only his own bike. Bob

[kouack]

I like Mega Log viewer for looking at Vision data files.

It wont read the logs from the wide band auto tune unless you buy the program $$$ for a guy doing only his own bike. Bob

Yes, but fairly cheap for what you get! I did pay for the license and this is cat a$$ program! Was like 30 US $ and you can watch your log, very nice if you do have wide band capability IE Autotune or target tune!

[hrdtail78]

I like Mega Log viewer for looking at Vision data files.

It wont read the logs from the wide band auto tune unless you buy the program $$$ for a guy doing only his own bike. Bob

Had it for years and use it as a professional with many programs and ECMs.  I forgot that I did pay for it.

[FXDBI]

I like Mega Log viewer for looking at Vision data files.

It wont read the logs from the wide band auto tune unless you buy the program $$$ for a guy doing only his own bike. Bob

Yes, but fairly cheap for what you get! I did pay for the license and this is cat a$$ program! Was like 30 US $ and you can watch your log, very nice if you do have wide band capability IE Autotune or target tune!

It was like $80 when I first got my auto tune for the PV, that's over $100 Canadian. The auto tune unit was almost $500 Canadian add in the cost of the PV it adds up for a one bike. I opted to just let the PV software do its thing and after a dozen or so tuning sessions with the wide bands over several days I had all the cells happy. Wish there was a tuner I could trust here in Edmonton sadly haven't found him yet.  I see its on sale for $50 US now so about $70 with tax I am to cheap for a one bike tune I will spend it on gas.  Bob

[Jim Bronson]

Thanks for the replies. Two more questions:

Do I need to check the log box on autotune to generate the file?
What does the filename look like?

[kouack]

You start log on your PV, when done riding, you use WinPV(laptop for me) hooked to your PV, click download log, they are name like log0000.csv files, much like excel sheet.

[Jim Bronson]

Many thanks. 

[Coyote]

It's 49 bucks.  Wanna play, you gotta pay.

https://www.efianalytics.com/register/viewProduct.jsp?productCode=MegaLogViewerHD

[Jim Bronson]

Thanks. I'll check out the free version first. We don't have a good tuner around here anymore, so it is up to me to dive into it after the autotunes.

[98fxstc]

It's 49 bucks.  Wanna play, you gotta pay.

https://www.efianalytics.com/register/viewProduct.jsp?productCode=MegaLogViewerHD

Very useful bit of software
I used it with TTS but they couldn't keep up with the changes in TTS

[cheech]

It's been awhile but shouldn't he be able to view the changes with the WinPv software?
No third party stuff needed?

Lets say in his tune manager on the Pv, he selects slot 2 to autotune and sends that to the ECM, proceeds to do some riding.
Gets back from the session, exports the learned, which sends him to the tune manager, he selects slot 3, saves it there.
Then he takes the Pv to his laptop or PC, plugs it in, clicks get tune from Pv, loads slot 2 as the active, then load slot 3 as the compare and see the deltas between the 2.

He may have to save both those slots to his PC before he is able to compare them.
I'm uncertain if the load compare sends you to a folder only or if you can get a tune from the tune manager to compare.

[Jim Bronson]

The procedure should work to compare two tunes. I want to display tabular differences side-by-side to see what the autotune session produced. I'd like the format similar to that displayed during autotune. It is mainly a display issue.

[cheech]

The procedure should work to compare two tunes. I want to display tabular differences side-by-side to see what the autotune session produced. I'd like the format similar to that displayed during autotune. It is mainly a display issue.

Well that's what I'm getting at.
You're comparing the tune you started with and the one the autotune session just produced (side by side).
As I said it's been awhile since I autotuned.
But what I remember it's what I did to see the changes produced by a session.
Just rusty on how I went about it.

The exported tune after the autotune session is a full modified tune. (attached image is from manual)
So if you save the tune you started with and the one after the autotune session. Then compare them with the compare feature in the WinPv, it shows where the VE was changed (i.e. the values learned).

Second image is my grab from where I autotuned last.
I named one Second autotune (the one I autotuned/started with) and the other Third autotune (the one after the autotune session, the exported one). The grab is from the Delta tab in the WinPv software.


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[Jim Bronson]

Excellent Cheech. Thank you.

[hrdtail78]

IMO that info really doesn't give me anything to work with.  It shows VE's were changes and how much.  Did they need changed and by that much?  Now with a program like MLV.  I can see target vs actual and get the change needed in percent and then cross reference that against the changes that can be seen when comparing VE tables from previous cal to the next.  Then again, if you know how much the target is off by percent.  Pretty easy to multiply that percent to the VE table to come up with your own new.  Once you get your head around how they want you to write the formulas and the formulas for filters.  It can be a pretty powerful data viewer.

I know, the programs that come free already do that for you.  Fair enough.  Duty cycle?  Which programs show you duty cycle for frt and rr?  Easy enough to write a formula that shows highest duty cycle for each cell you have created in the histogram.  Can even color code anything over 80 with yellow and over 90 with red.  Beats line by line in excel.  Load data, choose layout, pick filter, select histogram and boom.  Toggle from frt to rr.

[cheech]

Any time.
The part where I'm rusty at though and if it helps.
If I remember right I had to use the "get tune from PV", select a slot that has a tune and open it then save it and give it a file name for each slot in order so to speak. Because the "load compare" opens the file manager up on your PC or laptop to select a tune from.
I'm unaware if it can retrieve a tune from the PV for the "load compare" feature as I said before.

Technically you could ride and autotune all day, keep exporting the learned tune to the next open slot, autotune from the slot you just filled, on and on until they're all filled. 
Get back to PC, save each tune as above, then do a compare across each successive tune or do a compare across your starting tune and your last one in tune manager.

[cheech]

IMO that info really doesn't give me anything to work with.  It shows VE's were changes and how much.  Did they need changed and by that much?  Now with a program like MLV.  I can see target vs actual and get the change needed in percent and then cross reference that against the changes that can be seen when comparing VE tables from previous cal to the next.  Then again, if you know how much the target is off by percent.  Pretty easy to multiply that percent to the VE table to come up with your own new.  Once you get your head around how they want you to write the formulas and the formulas for filters.  It can be a pretty powerful data viewer.

I know, the programs that come free already do that for you.  Fair enough.  Duty cycle?  Which programs show you duty cycle for frt and rr?  Easy enough to write a formula that shows highest duty cycle for each cell you have created in the histogram.  Can even color code anything over 80 with yellow and over 90 with red.  Beats line by line in excel.  Load data, choose layout, pick filter, select histogram and boom.  Toggle from frt to rr.

I get that for YOU.
But it shows what he initially asked in a easy manner as he nor I a tuner nor is he working with a dyno by his side.

What is the easiest way to view learned VE tables following a PV Autotune session?

And we're unfortunately relying on the autotune to determine whether they need changed and by how much.

So what I showed definitely isn't going to take the place of any good log viewer nor anyone that can decipher them and what's needed.
Hence the value in a good dyno session with a good tuner.
So why even waste the 49 bucks for the MLV when he can do what he asked for free?
When he probably won't ever need or use all of the MLV features.

[Coyote]

So why even waste the 49 bucks for the MLV when he can do what he asked for free?
When he probably won't ever need or use all of the MLV features.

Because you are going to find Auto tune misses correcting some cells. Using MLV makes it much easier to identify those cells and correct them.

[cheech]

Because you are going to find Auto tune misses correcting some cells. Using MLV makes it much easier to identify those cells and correct them.

I see.
Why is that you suppose?
What is the flaw in the autotune?
Is it the lack of being able to hit all the cells on a ride?

[Coyote]

Because you are going to find Auto tune misses correcting some cells. Using MLV makes it much easier to identify those cells and correct them.

I see.
Why is that you suppose?
What is the flaw in the autotune?
Is it the lack of being able to hit all the cells on a ride?

I'm not sure it's a flaw. The software has certain requirements that must be met to use the data. You might have cells you don't get to due to how the bike was ridden. You may have cells that aren't "hit" enough. You might have other things going on that prevent the autotune from using the data. Those missed areas often show up in MLV as discontinuities.

[Jim Bronson]

I won't be running any further autotune sessions until the upgrade is broken in and I can run over 3500. It runs fine now except that I get a code for rich running. I'm hoping that will clear after a few more sessions. I'll be posting if I have any issues after the full autotuning is finished.

[hrdtail78]

Because you are going to find Auto tune misses correcting some cells. Using MLV makes it much easier to identify those cells and correct them.

I see.
Why is that you suppose?
What is the flaw in the autotune?
Is it the lack of being able to hit all the cells on a ride?

I was just showing how I use it as a pro and giving a couple of example.  Is it needed to compare VE tables?  No, but like I stated.  Comparing just the changes don't really tell me much.

I haven't had much luck with vision auto tune.  Changing target after mapping VE's to one constant target is where I see a problem.  The further you are away from actual displacement and injector size.  The more I am off the mark once changing to an actual go down the road target table and a recheck.  If I am trying to change a target .2.  That is one thing.  Trying to change a target by 1 afr.  This is where problems seem to pop up.  I see the same with ANY tuning device that changes the target more than 1 after mapping VE's.  This includes mapping 80kpa and below with narrow bands.  I blame this more on the injector size being off than displacement.

I do use programs but I also hand enter numbers.  If I get into a hard to ride area because it is 17:1.  Sure I can hold it there until I get enough hits, but let's say that leanness is at 4500 and 80% throttle.  Chances are.  I am not going to hold it steady for data but see it in MLV after one hit and add enough units to the VE cell to get me in a safe ball park so I can collect the data.  Same can be said on a new engine showing 10:1.

FWIW and take it if needed.  Just some of the things I have seen.  If you got a decent base map.  Maybe this doesn't have any affect.  If starting a tune from scratch, more needs to be put into it.

[Coyote]

I'll add one more thing. If you are setting codes for rich then I'd be looking at what data you have now instead of riding it, hoping it will figure it out. When I was street tuning bikes, I used wide bands for the open loop areas and narrow for the closed loop areas for exactly the reason Jason said above.