Correcting PV Hot Idle Issue

[Jim Bronson]

I increased the lower violet cells in the IAC Steps vs Temp table by 5% (100 to 105). After editing, they turned green. Does that sound right? I haven't tried it yet.

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[rigidthumper]

The color only indicates relative size, compared to the rest of the table- biggest #s are red, smallest # are blue, closest to middle are green. That table affects IAC steps during initial engine startup, not idle RPM. Too little and it stumbles, too much and it'll flair.

[Jim Bronson]

Thanks. Poor choice of words. The problem is that it stumbles on startup when hot. If I hold a little throttle during startup for a few seconds it idles normally with no initial stumble.

[rigidthumper]

Crank steps vs temp table values are added to the learned IAC position @ key on. Making values bigger will add a little air during cranking.

Editing the IAC warmup steps table can help with this also. This tables values are added to the crank steps table during warm up, decaying as temp increases.

[Jim Bronson]

Thanks for the explanation. I hope to get time to test it today.

[Jim Bronson]

Tried it this morning. It is improved, but still no cigar. It runs for a couple of seconds and then shuts off but doesn't do the bucking like it did before.  I have the idle set for +50, and it idles fine. I'll try another 5% on the IAC map and see what happens.

[hrdtail78]

Since most start issues are because of the ratio, and opening the throttle is needed to start warm.  Have you tried to pull cranking fuel out of that area?

[Jim Bronson]

Since most start issues are because of the ratio, and opening the throttle is needed to start warm.  Have you tried to pull cranking fuel out of that area?

I haven't. I'm not sure how to do it.

[hrdtail78]

There should be a cranking fuel table under fuel.  It's based on temp as well.  These two tables together control amount of air and fuel for cranking and start.

As a rule of thumb, meaning it isn't 100%.  Usually if the bike starts and burbles up to idle.  It is lean.  At the same time.  If the bike starts and flares.  It's rich.

Does throttle need to opened up a bit to fire or after it fires.  A little throttle is needed to keep it running.  If it is the later.  Fuel and air might need to be added in the higher temps.

[Jim Bronson]

The throttle needs to be opened slightly while cranking. It will then start and run OK as long as the throttle is held open a little. After a few seconds, the throttle can be closed and it will idle normally. As long as I know how it will behave, it isn't a big deal, but I'd still like to fix it.

There is no cranking fuel table under the fuel folder.

[hrdtail78]

Strange on the cranking fuel table.  Is it under a different folder?  I haven't seen a cal with out it yet. The older cals had this table based on straight injector opening.  The later tables based on lambda.  Maybe since based on lambda.  They didn't think it needs adjustment with injector size change anymore.  But I really have no idea what DJ is doing with their product.  My bad if I gave wrong information.

[Jim Bronson]

I bumped the IAC vs temp values another 5%. Still no go. I'll try bumping an idle table next.

[rigidthumper]

Post your current map? Maybe we can see something?

[Jim Bronson]

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[kouack]

i can see the cranking fuel, i do have this issue! there is some tables i can see on my computer but not on my laptop.

[Ohio HD]

I see the cranking fuel table too Jim.

[rigidthumper]

See how the VE near idle has some cells 30 points apart?     

[Jim Bronson]

Well hmmmm... I wonder why you guys can see it and I can't. What version of WinPV are you running? Mine is 3.0.5.38.

I did add 6 steps to the IAC Crank to Run table, and I noticed a small improvement. It doesn't buck as much, but it dies after a few seconds.

[Ohio HD]

[Jim Bronson]

2.2.01.1646 is the firmware version. I downloaded it, but there are no instructions for installing it.
I checked the firmware revision with the DJ update tool, and it reports that I'm up to date with the firmware version and the application version, and yet I show 3.0.5.38 on the "About WinPV", which is the application. I guess that makes sense, as it isn't reporting the firmware version.
?
I plugged the module into the bike, and it shows 2.2.01.1646 as the firmware version, so I think I'm up to date.

I still can't figure why I can't see the Cranking Fuel table.

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[hrdtail78]

This is a bit over my head, and I mention it in hopes someone else can walk you through this or send you in the right direction.

I had something like this come up and a friend of mine that knows vision better than me and has a tuning shop in South/ east Indiana has walked me through it.  Has something to do with putting stock cal back in and pulling it out again to have it sync with the cal you are trying to use.  I was missing some tables and this got them to be visible.  Sorry can't be much more help with this.

Edited to add:  I don't think you need cranking fuel to address the problem you are having.  Cranking mode is over once engine is over idle rpm.

[rbabos]

Likely heat soaked IAT. Add 3% to the effected temp of the warmup table or add 3% to the idle ve table. If your idle is still in closed loop, try 14.5 . It's basically lean when hot, especially if the bike was tuned prior in colder temps.
Ron

[Jim Bronson]

Thanks a lot guys. The bike runs very well except for this pesky issue. I'll keep trying to track it down, and I'll post the solution if I find it.

I'll call DJ next week.

[Jim Bronson]

Just playing around today, I added another 8 steps to the IAC Crank To Run table (for a total of 16 steps). I didn't see any improvement. Ever since I started adding steps to this table, it no longer bucks on startup. It starts normally and idles smoothly for a few seconds and then smoothly shuts off.

I'm thinking I should look elsewhere now, but I'm flying blind.

[Sunny Jim]

Just playing around today, I added another 8 steps to the IAC Crank To Run table (for a total of 16 steps). I didn't see any improvement. Ever since I started adding steps to this table, it no longer bucks on startup. It starts normally and idles smoothly for a few seconds and then smoothly shuts off.

I'm thinking I should look elsewhere now, but I'm flying blind.

I have been through this many times, but if you are uncertain, download
Another map from Dynojet or apply to FM for a map.
My issue was the engine running out of fuel at a precise time. I data logged over and over. My issue was in the VE tables.