114 Cam Advice

[Propflux01]

Who knows, possible you have a defective cam, timing dot marked wrong. I'm curious to see what the compression check says.

Here's the numbers if your curious:

Throttle blade closed: Front: 200    Rear: 200
Throttle blade open:   Front: 250    Rear:250

[03wglide]

Who knows, possible you have a defective cam, timing dot marked wrong. I'm curious to see what the compression check says.

Here's the numbers if your curious:

Throttle blade closed: Front: 200    Rear: 200
Throttle blade open:  Front: 250    Rear:250

The manual calls out for 175psi min., so I'd say that rules out timing or pushrod adjustment. I agree with you, don't think exhaust is the issue either. Especially after two different exhausts. The 4.5" I could see losing bottom end but the sidewinder 2:1 should've rebound. There has to be something over looked as it should perform better low to mid.

I have a S&S 475 using 4" grand national slip-on's with no complaints throughout the rpm range. I know there are other cams stronger on the bottom end but it works for me.

See what direction they take you next and remind them you used two different exhausts. Gut tells me a mapping correction is needed. I think submitting a data log would shed light on this.

[Propflux01]

The only thing mentioned so far was data logs and don't change out the cam because a new one might perform the same if another issue. I'm trying to find an experienced tuner in my area, closest so far is 150 miles away. Then the logistics involved in getting it there, provided they can even get me in. In the mean time, I have an extra DB reducer, so I'm going to do what @harpwrench stated about cutting it and making a spoon and see if the torque comes up.

[DTTJGlide]

I would recommend data logs for sure, I was hoping some experts would chime in here, but I'm thinking that those compression numbers are too high. You always check with the blades open, so that shows you are running 75psi over what's called for, those are race motor numbers. I'm not an expert for sure, but I think that could be pointing to  a timing error as your cam timing controls your corrected CR. That's how you can run 12+ CR on pump gas, I'd at least let FM know about those CR numbers & see what they say. I hope you can get it resolved as your problem is the first complaint I've heard on that cam, I've heard of rare instances of cams being ground wrong also. I think the data logs would give FM the ability to sort this all out. GOOD LUCK

[Hossamania]

You might try another compression test with a different tester to verify the calibration of your tester. It's good that the numbers are even, though high. A second test will verify or possibly discount those numbers.

[Ohio HD]

A stock 114" M8 should see somewhere around 225 to 230 cranking pressure with the ACR's disconnected. Not knowing the OEM 114 cam specs, it's possible the Cycle Rama cam is bumping the cranking pressure up.

[Propflux01]

I would recommend data logs for sure, I was hoping some experts would chime in here, but I'm thinking that those compression numbers are too high. You always check with the blades open, so that shows you are running 75psi over what's called for, those are race motor numbers. I'm not an expert for sure, but I think that could be pointing to  a timing error as your cam timing controls your corrected CR. That's how you can run 12+ CR on pump gas, I'd at least let FM know about those CR numbers & see what they say. I hope you can get it resolved as your problem is the first complaint I've heard on that cam, I've heard of rare instances of cams being ground wrong also. I think the data logs would give FM the ability to sort this all out. GOOD LUCK

I thought a bit high myself, Fuel Moto Guy did not seem concerned about it. I did see a video on someone doing comp test with an S&S 475 cam installed and his was 225, so I didn't give it much thought. They were even with each other though, which I thought was good. He Stated: "Your compression numbers are where they should be so this will remove the conversation about cam timing. I did not ask you, is this bike consistently off on power? What I mean is, does the bike perform better at any times and then the power degrades? " Seems to me if timing were advance, to make those numbers high, Id gobs of low torque an no upper end. But His other question led me to think maybe they think it might be sumping, even mildly?

[m1marty]

Base maps are just that, basic starting points. I have yet to see one that didn't need work. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot.

[Luke119]

Base maps are just that, basic starting points. I have yet to see one that didn't need work. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot.

 

I have a CR480 in my 119 kit M8 and it has power throughout 2000-5000 and always puts a smile on my face.  The canned map from FM worked BUT when I got it to my tuner... Wow!!!

[kd]

Base maps are just that, basic starting points. I have yet to see one that didn't need work. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot.

 

I have a CR480 in my 119 kit M8 and it has power throughout 2000-5000 and always puts a smile on my face.  The canned map from FM worked BUT when I got it to my tuner... Wow!!!

There you go. Personal experience. Not from a bar stool.     

Putting a tune into an ECM means nothing (no matter how many times you do it) if you can't test it and adjust it while monitoring the effect of the changes.  You can't condemn cam, timing, exhaust or any other component until it is properly analyzed.  That is most effectively done on a dyno 

[Propflux01]

I'm beginning to think the same thing. When the weather gets a bit better I'm going to try and do data logs with the PV4. Maybe that might get me a better map until I can do the logistics for a dyno tuner.

[kd]

I'm beginning to think the same thing. When the weather gets a bit better I'm going to try and do data logs with the PV4. Maybe that might get me a better map until I can do the logistics for a dyno tuner.

If your data log is in colder weather conditions it will deliver different results.  If that data is used to adjust the map there will be no way to know if it moves closer to optimum or away.  The dyno option is a slam dunk if the tuner is an experienced operator with an OCD tick.

[rigidthumper]

Did we determine if the PV4 will interface with the Powercore (Winpep8) software?

[Coyote]

Did we determine if the PV4 will interface with the Powercore (Winpep8) software?

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,117640.msg1419950.html#msg1419950

[Propflux01]

Yeah, I asked that question awhile back, I didn't like the idea of my original tune solely on my phone. I like things "backed up", if you will.

[Propflux01]

I'm beginning to think the same thing. When the weather gets a bit better I'm going to try and do data logs with the PV4. Maybe that might get me a better map until I can do the logistics for a dyno tuner.

If your data log is in colder weather conditions it will deliver different results.  If that data is used to adjust the map there will be no way to know if it moves closer to optimum or away.  The dyno option is a slam dunk if the tuner is an experienced operator with an OCD tick.

Just curious, why is this? If the map was set in, say 80*F, would the ECM not adjust or account for this?

Yes, I agree about the dyno, again, logistics and finding a good tuner around me is the issue at the moment. There's one about 150 miles away, and another in KCMO that's supposed to be good, and I've got relatives there. Haven't heard a reply from them, though. Then it's getting the bike up there, taking time off work, etc. usual stuff.

[kd]

I'm beginning to think the same thing. When the weather gets a bit better I'm going to try and do data logs with the PV4. Maybe that might get me a better map until I can do the logistics for a dyno tuner.

If your data log is in colder weather conditions it will deliver different results.  If that data is used to adjust the map there will be no way to know if it moves closer to optimum or away.  The dyno option is a slam dunk if the tuner is an experienced operator with an OCD tick.

Just curious, why is this? If the map was set in, say 80*F, would the ECM not adjust or account for this?

Yes, I agree about the dyno, again, logistics and finding a good tuner around me is the issue at the moment. There's one about 150 miles away, and another in KCMO that's supposed to be good, and I've got relatives there. Haven't heard a reply from them, though. Then it's getting the bike up there, taking time off work, etc. usual stuff.

The tuner /ECM combination usually has restrictions to the amount of plus or minus adjustment it can make.  That's one of the basic reasons most tunes start out with a basic canned tune that is deemed (hoped)to be close. Again, I am not a tuner and only have a basic knowledge of tuner performance.  Your question is much better answered by one of the members that tunes regularly.

[Coyote]

The ambient temp won't matter. Log away.