Boring factory 107" cylinders

[Adam76]

"I reckon a 114" big bore and a CR483 can would be ideal for what I want / need."
Add a Muller power clutch and Bob's your uncle!

Great, now all I need to do is sort out an exhaust system....
Do you think a set of S&S slip ons will be good, or do I need a good 2-1 pipe?
Softails are always harder to get the exhaust right compared to baggers.
Thanks

[rigidthumper]

I saw some some testing on Facebook, and the Softails seemed to like the slip-ons for mild stage 2. RS468 had the best sound, but a TQ dip. Woods 22X, TTS100, Andrews 464, CR450 all work well low-mid, and will make 100HP (+/-) by factory redline with a proper tune. The 107 doesn't have enough compression for a lot of the mid/upper range cams

[Hossamania]

All decisions are economic.
Slip-ons will work, you might leave a bit of power on the table, but will you notice? Will spending the extra money (quite a bit) on a full system be worth the price for the little bit of extra power? If you lose races to your friends, then yes!! If you're just enjoying a nice scramble through the countryside, probably not.
You can always sell the slip-ons if they don't work for you, get the full system, and unfortunately pay for a new tune, but chasing horsepower is rarely cheap.

[NHBagger]

I saw some some testing on Facebook, and the Softails seemed to like the slip-ons for mild stage 2. RS468 had the best sound, but a TQ dip. Woods 22X, TTS100, Andrews 464, CR450 all work well low-mid, and will make 100HP (+/-) by factory redline with a proper tune. The 107 doesn't have enough compression for a lot of the mid/upper range cams

CR450???

[rigidthumper]

CR450 (I3/25, .450", E45/3, .430) was designed as a bolt in cam, pick up the right side better than the SE447. May not even be in production anymore.

[Adam76]

All decisions are economic.
Slip-ons will work, you might leave a bit of power on the table, but will you notice? Will spending the extra money (quite a bit) on a full system be worth the price for the little bit of extra power? If you lose races to your friends, then yes!! If you're just enjoying a nice scramble through the countryside, probably not.
You can always sell the slip-ons if they don't work for you, get the full system, and unfortunately pay for a new tune, but chasing horsepower is rarely cheap.

Thanks for the advice Hoss.

My racing days are over, I just like cruising the country side. But,  if I'm going to spend good money on a stage II then I also want to make sure the exhaust isn't going to rob me of too much power if you know what I mean.

[Adam76]

CR450 (I3/25, .450", E45/3, .430) was designed as a bolt in cam, pick up the right side better than the SE447. May not even be in production anymore.

I think you might mean the CR460 ? That was in production early on, not sure if it's available any more.

[rigidthumper]

Two different cams- specs and description from FM site
CR-450 specs were I 3/25, .450", E 45/3, .430" bolt in for M8 engines with stock or slightly higher compression.
CR-460 specs were I 6/20, .460", E 46/0, .440" bolt in for M8 engines with stock compression, broad power in 107,114, & 117 motors.

[Sunny Jim]

CR450 (I3/25, .450", E45/3, .430) was designed as a bolt in cam, pick up the right side better than the SE447. May not even be in production anymore.

I think you might mean the CR460 ? That was in production early on, not sure if it's available any more.

Great cam!!

[Adam76]

Doing the 107 - 114 big bore kit with JE pistons and the CR480 cam.

Do you guys recommend the larger injectors and 55mm throttle body? Or are they not needed for that level of mods?

Thanks

[JSD]

Talking to Geelong HD mate and recommends injectors and the Alloy manifold. 

[Adam76]

All decisions are economic.
Slip-ons will work, you might leave a bit of power on the table, but will you notice? Will spending the extra money (quite a bit) on a full system be worth the price for the little bit of extra power? If you lose races to your friends, then yes!! If you're just enjoying a nice scramble through the countryside, probably not.
You can always sell the slip-ons if they don't work for you, get the full system, and unfortunately pay for a new tune, but chasing horsepower is rarely cheap.

Agreed.

Taking about chasing HP... I feel like boring my 107" to 114" is almost not worth the cost for the small gain?

Some say it's fine to bore the 107 out to 117, others say it leaves the cylinder wall too thin...

The 120"/ 124" kit is probably more power that I need?

Starting with a 114" would have been much easier to work with. 

[rigidthumper]

"The 120"/ 124" kit is probably more power than I need?"
If it's truely Need? I'd think that a 107 with a cam/AC/slip-ons/tuner will provide that. 115-120 TQ, 100-107 HP, cam dependent. After that, it's gravy.

[Tail Ridr]

All decisions are economic.
Slip-ons will work, you might leave a bit of power on the table, but will you notice? Will spending the extra money (quite a bit) on a full system be worth the price for the little bit of extra power? If you lose races to your friends, then yes!! If you're just enjoying a nice scramble through the countryside, probably not.
You can always sell the slip-ons if they don't work for you, get the full system, and unfortunately pay for a new tune, but chasing horsepower is rarely cheap.

Agreed.

Taking about chasing HP... I feel like boring my 107" to 114" is almost not worth the cost for the small gain?

Some say it's fine to bore the 107 out to 117, others say it leaves the cylinder wall too thin...

The 120"/ 124" kit is probably more power that I need?

Starting with a 114" would have been much easier to work with. 

There are many routes to explore. In the end, to settle in your mind if it's worth it or really what is the best, after you figure what the final outcome is you're looking for...it all comes down to cost/hp-tq. In the 2 stroke world it was never uncommon to spend $100/hp. Is it ever really worth it? Seat of the pants and a smile gives you the answer.

[Adam76]

Thanks,

I'm replacing the plastic manifold with the 55mm S&S and the tappet cuffs.

Is it necessary to change the Cam sprocket to the oversize Andrews camshaft sprocket?

Thanks.

[HogMike]

Thinking about doing a small increase in displacement on my 107" softail. I definitely don't want a "big bore kit" especially the 124 / 128" kits..... 114"/117" will be plenty power for me.

Is it safe to bore the 107" to 117" ? Or would it be a safer bet to just go to 114"?

I have found CP pistons and Wiseco both do the 117" pistons -- however, interestingly in the Wiseco catalogue, the 117" pistons require cylinder "Resleeve" ...

Any advice on which pitons to go with, and what size bore would be appreciated. Also need to make sure I can get a Cometic top end gasket kit to go with it.

Thanks.

I would recommend being realistic with what your goals are and how you ride.
There are "tried and true packages" from various shops that will fill your needs.

In my case, with my 2019 bagger, I knew what the bike is going to be used for and what kind of torque curve i wanted. This is my long haul bike. HP a was not a concern and we did a mild, well-mannered build with great gas mileage and excellent passing power where you need it. 40K miles on this one with no issues.

My green bike is pretty much the opposite, more a solo bike with high HP at higher revs. Both have their place but both require different riding styles.

Talk to some of the shops who will do "real world builds" as opposed to dyno queens.

I was fortunate to get some solid advice from a shop that actually recommended another source for my last build! He knows how I ride! Thanks Steve. LOL

Good luck in your build.

[rigidthumper]

Thanks,

I'm replacing the plastic manifold with the 55mm S&S and the tappet cuffs.

Is it necessary to change the Cam sprocket to the Andrews camshaft sprocket?

Thanks.

Not necessary, but will tighten up the fit on the pinion shaft. What's a few more bux while you're spending a chunk?

[Adam76]

Thinking about doing a small increase in displacement on my 107" softail. I definitely don't want a "big bore kit" especially the 124 / 128" kits..... 114"/117" will be plenty power for me.

Is it safe to bore the 107" to 117" ? Or would it be a safer bet to just go to 114"?

I have found CP pistons and Wiseco both do the 117" pistons -- however, interestingly in the Wiseco catalogue, the 117" pistons require cylinder "Resleeve" ...

Any advice on which pitons to go with, and what size bore would be appreciated. Also need to make sure I can get a Cometic top end gasket kit to go with it.

Thanks.

I would recommend being realistic with what your goals are and how you ride.
There are "tried and true packages" from various shops that will fill your needs.

Good luck in your build.

Thanks Mike, yes realistically all I need is basic a 107" big bore build just boring my own cylinders to 117" with a set of 10.75 comp CP pistons.... . I'm already doing the full cam upgrade, so it's not that much more for the pistons and machine work... I definitely DO NOT need a 124" kit. More power (and money) than I could ever use or have.

I'll Beef up the clutch a little to hold the TQ and it's ready for a dyno tune. I have found a really good machine shop locally that is very reasonably priced, so I think I'm set. All I need to decide on is the camshaft itself..... Tossing up between the CR480 and the S&S475.

Thanks.

[JSD]

Adam the 475 cam on graphs shows a big dip in torque in some rev range 

[rigidthumper]

The 475 has more traditional lope sound @ idle, the 480 pulls better low/mid.

[Hossamania]

Would the 475 work better as a 117", making the low end dip much less of an issue?
Having asked that, it sure seems the 480 is a very well designed cam that hits all the marks, would only get better with more displacement. It would be my choice for any stock motor stage 2 upgrade.

[rigidthumper]

With a 17° close, the only worry is corrected compression. 9.6:1 corrected for Twin Cams did OK with a good tune, M8 seems to like 10.5 corrected. Everything can be pushed, but diminishing returns and all that.

[harpwrench]

This is a 475 in a 107 with a supertrapp fatshot 2-1. Maybe not useful since it's a touring and I don't know if they have one for softails, but I think it's interesting with a bonus torque hump instead of a dip.

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[Adam76]

This is a 475 in a 107 with a supertrapp fatshot 2-1. Maybe not useful since it's a touring and I don't know if they have one for softails, but I think it's interesting with a bonus torque hump instead of a dip

Thanks harpwrench,  that is indeed a very nice TQ curve and very nice HP numbers.

But I suspect you are right that the firing bike engine and exhaust configuration has a lot to do with it, and a softail even with a 2-1 pipe would not have the same results.

[Adam76]

With a 17° close, the only worry is corrected compression. 9.6:1 corrected for Twin Cams did OK with a good tune, M8 seems to like 10.5 corrected. Everything can be pushed, but diminishing returns and all that.

My cam chart says the CR480 has intake close of 20*.

Just got an email back from Jamie at Fuel moto saying the with the 107" that cam is more mid range 2700rpm - 5000rpm... And that the RS468 or Woods 2XE cam would have been a better choice for power from 2000rpm.

Looks like I have to change the cam, bump up the compression with the 114" big bore to get it working optimally.