I have something I know mighty little about

[stafford]

I told about this on another part of this forum but saturday a 53 fle presented itself to me and I had to have it. Kinda foolish considering how little I know about them. I know you can find almost anything on the internet. but I'll probably worry yall to death with questions about this bike.  It runs really nice. I haven't ridden it yet

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[Hossamania]

In general they are pretty simple machines, make sure you have proper tools for specific fasteners, like those fasteners with standard screwdriver heads (kidney cam cover) that require proper bits, not just the biggest screwdriver in your box.
Any chance of finding a local shop that could help you down the road with it if needed?
Sweet machine, have fun with it!

[JSD]

Pretty fool proof . Buy a HD manual. 
Nice Pan. Whats the go with the guages on bars?

[stafford]

Thanks Hoss for the info.  Any idea where i can buy the tools you're talking about?
as far as a shop, I'm not sure.  My brother in law knows a guy at fort payne alabama but he's retired or retiring and its long way from me to him. I'm fairly persistant and capable of learning.
JSD I've got a clymer manuel thats pretty much worthless. If I could find a shop manual for it I'd buy it.  I did see where someone recommended a book called how to restore your panhead and  i ordered it. Hopefully it will steer me in the right direction. Honestly I could probably just dig into it and it would be fairly self explanatory. I was gonna take for a ride and the clutch mechanism is jammed  at the transmission.  gotta get that figured out.
Stafford.    oh yea as far as the guages I have no idea. been on there a long time. ones oil pressure and it holds 40 lbs idling and the other is a temp guage.

[Hossamania]

Any good tool supplier will have all manner of tools and bits for you. I'm sorry I don't have specific info for you. I have a hand impact that has a few of the larger screwdriver bits in it that may work, but I don't have a Pan to test them on!
Coincidentally, in another thread I mentioned Easyriders Classic magazine, an article about 3 or 4 months ago covered this very subject, repairing the kidney cam cover and a picture of proper tools to use, and improper tools that cause the damage, both to the cover and to the screws.

[stafford]

My bike is far from perfect. the ol boy built it in 78 I think after he crashed his other bike and built this one from whatever he could find. It's a mish mash of parts that worked for him for many years. Hell it's good enough for me if i can get everything squared away where its dependable. And I'll do that if I can.
Stafford

[Fugawee]

You should be able to locate Tools, and Manuals from many sources on the Internet, or an Indy Shop can probably order them for You.  I have bought both on Ebay, and elsewhere.  There are Manuals both New, Re-prints, and Used in print, and on Disc.  And New/Used Specialty Tools.
I prefer the Paper printed Manuals.
If You just search Harley Panhead Tools...You will probably see quite a few offerings.
I have had to order Specialty Tools from many different Sellers.
I used what some call "Drag Bits" or "Drag Links" to remove the Timing Cover slotted fasteners.  When I re-assembled later on, I replaced those with Studs/Acorn Nuts.

My HD Panhead Manual has no HD Part # on it but it is for 1948-1957 Model Years and is pretty decent.
My HD Panhead Parts Manual is HD #99456-84B for FL Models 1941-1984.
Just Search what You may be looking for and You will more than likely find it.

Happy Hunting!

[JSD]

I have the 36-64 by Rick Schumk book. Also i used a hand impact tool on cam cover screws on a 50 & 52 build. Sorry i cant post pics. The shovel clutch puller, and trany sprocket nut tool is about all ya need or make. If in the the cam side S&S make oil pump drive gears 6-24 ratio like 73 on to fit yours for more flow. Thats worth doing. New plugs , points and condenser are cheap. Linkert carbs pretty fool proof. You may watch Tatro machine u tube.& Pacific Mike. If you have Questions we are here to help. Note not correct cam screws on 50 and not correct cam cover on 52. But that was what i was given by customer. And they are always right. Found photo upload

[stafford]

My bike is far from perfect. the ol boy built it in 78 I think after he crashed his other bike and built this one from whatever he could find. It's a mish mash of parts that worked for him for many years. Hell it's good enough for me if i can get everything squared away where its dependable. And I'll do that if I can.
Stafford  whatta dummy, i had this all typed up a long time ago and forgot to hit send. JSD, Fugawee and Hoss I sure  do appreciate yalls input. it means a lot to me, not knowing anything about these bikes. But i guess i'm  weirdo, I enjoy learning about stuff like this. I'm a hands on type learner. And some pics or  diagrams are really helpful to me.I'll see if i can find those tools you mentioned and maybe i can swing em.I've got a  pretty  good selection of hand tools and other stuff that I've been buying since i was 18 or so but some nice fellers found their way into my old shop and helped themselves. Dirtybastards. Stole two boxes of seat grinding equipment all kinds of stuff. Cant have nothing. hahahahaa.This is a danged nice community right here and you fellers are very helpful. Thanks so  so  much.
Stafford

[Speeding Big Twin]

Nice bike. The FLE was made for 1953–56. It was 74ci and was known as a traffic combination motor due to the special cam and carb. H-D recommended the FLE for city police use but it was also available to the general public.
   
Does the serial number (SN) look authentic? If you're not sure you could post a partial photo. For example 53FLE1+++. SNs for 53 Pans began at 1000 and may have gone beyond 6300 but I don't know by how much.   

Did you check the belly numbers (BNs)? If you're not familiar with them they may be stamped under each case near the outer edges and somewhat toward the front. For example 153-1234. Left BN should be easy to see. R-H BN may be a bit harder to notice but it should still be visible even if a crankcase guard is in place.   

Stamped on top of each case near the rear mounting bolts you may find a certain type of 7?

If the cylinders are H-D there may be a date code (DC) at the base. The DC may consist of one letter and two numeric characters. On H-D Pan front cylinders the DC is usually the right way up but not always. On H-D Pan rear cylinders the DC is normally upside down but not always.

For 53 models the heads normally had a casting number and DC underneath the R-H side. I can't tell about that front head but the fins on the rear head look more like 58 and later? If so the casting ID would be on top of the head and hidden by the rocker cover. 

Under the trans case you may find casting number 121-35 and a DC.

For 53 the Pan frame was a wishbone and it may have a DC stamped on the R-H side of the top engine mount but it may not be visible with the tank secured.
On the steering head you may find forging number XE-35F and forging hallmark DIF representing Interstate Drop Forge. Also present may be a forging die number. R-H side should have a key-operated steering head lock.
Other forging ID may be on the axle clips and sidecar loops.
 
And no offence meant but I'm curious about the rear brake. Originally a 53 Pan would have had a mechanical drum rear brake but I see a master cylinder. Is that for a hydraulic drum brake or a disc brake? Thanks. 
Eric

[Hossamania]

OP did say it was put together using on hand parts, sounds like numbers and year specific parts might not match up.

[Fugawee]

Thinking about Pan Tools and the Bolts You were talking about...
I believe that the Only Specialty Tool that I had to get was one for properly lining up the Fuel Valve, which was located inside the Left Gas Tank.  The Fuel Valve was operated by a Knob on the Left Side Gas Tank.  Those were Original HD 3.5 Gallon Tanks on there.
Most I see nowadays have Larger Tanks, minus the Valve.
I had pretty much every other Specialty Tool needed, and if I didn't...figured something out.

As far as the Bolts that You found...when I got the Original Mess and started tearing it down, I removed the Outer Primary Cover.  Unknown to Me at the time, it had been converted to a Belt Drive Primary still using the Stock Outer Cover.  After getting all of that out of the way, I noticed that the Bolts securing the Inner Primary to the Engine were extremely loose.  Stripped as a matter of fact.  I'm pretty sure that there were 3 Bolts approx. 3/8" x 2 1/2" or 3".  Very loose.  One of them was out so far that the Front Pulley was keeping it from falling completely out.
 I think that You mentioned You thought there may be a problem in that neighborhood from other Posts.
Just something that You may want to investigate when the time comes.

And I can relate to having Your Tools "borrowed" to never be returned or found by some Scumbags.
I got robbed in April 1999 while in New Orleans having a great time.
Then We came Home, and it was WTF!

[stafford]

A little update on the bike. My bil stopped by to check it out and i told him about the clutch not going all the way down on the heel part of the pedal. he looked in there with a flashlight and saw the problem. the battery hold down bolts had dropped down and were blocking that piece of linkage. hahahahaha. easy enough to fix. as far as the master  cylinder for the rear brakes.  the information i got says he used a 65 swingarm frame and 65 tanks. The chrome piece over the speedo doesn't come close to fitting the tank, you could throw a cat under it, but its been that way for years. I guess it'll do me. Like i said, the ol boy is far from perfect. some one here might have known the builder and owner. His name was wesley lane from greenback tn.

[Speeding Big Twin]

as far as the master cylinder for the rear brakes.  the information i got says he used a 65 swingarm frame and 65 tanks.

Thanks. If he had access to a 65 swingarm frame then that may explain the master cylinder. And the rear wheel, if it has a hydraulic drum.

The script on the R-H tank may be the type used for 51–54 but the line underneath it was only for 51–53.
Eric 

[Speeding Big Twin]

OP did say it was put together using on hand parts, sounds like numbers and year specific parts might not match up.

I realise that but in another thread he also said this: 'I'm wondering what in the world was I thinking, getting a bike like this that i know absolutley nothing about. but i reckon I can learn and am wiling to learn.'

This forum is a good place to learn which is why I provided certain info as a starting point.
Eric 

[Hossamania]

OP did say it was put together using on hand parts, sounds like numbers and year specific parts might not match up.

I realise that but in another thread he also said this: 'I'm wondering what in the world was I thinking, getting a bike like this that i know absolutley nothing about. but i reckon I can learn and am wiling to learn.'

This forum is a good place to learn which is why I provided certain info as a starting point.
Eric 

Understood

[stafford]

This is turning into an adventure for me.  It starts like a  dream now. Now big old gut busting kicks. I actually rode it out the road today a couple time and back home successfully. I'm tickled about that. I got into third gear but it was all smooth and no crazy noises. it seems to be pretty sound in the running gear and engine. It's going to be a fun machine to own and i  feel privelaged to have it but im gonna ride it and not worry a whole lot about it. except to keep it in running order and keeping it patched up so it can be ridden. Theyre not worth much sitting in the shop gather ooohs and aaahs. thanks to all of you for the info and encouragement
Stafford

[stafford]

I made a little video of kicki https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOPMK1fr13uBYvQgGdDjoA4qEMDh-MwldRN4PlB3QBHz3C1RM7PvcLjSGUKZDnUoA/photo/AF1QipNvGeoIndNbIfJb8n3WjnW66Fg_W5Cn9pcyivcu?key=YnFkakJJU3c4ZFRTN3otSXQyRVVTYTV6dGUwR1N3ng it off to start it.


Correct link: Kick Starting

[kd]

Stanford, I get address invalid on that video. 

[JSD]

Starts easy. It has been converted to juice hub from what i see in video. Nice bike

[stafford]

Thanks to whoever fixed that link so you could see the video. I didn't have any idea how to do that. Yes, The ol boy who built this bike i think it was 78  just rounded up what he could find. sposed to be  65 swingarm frame,  I don't even know what that means. but i reckon thats where it came up with the hydraulic brakes, and I'm glad it's got em. I don't reckon anything about this bike is correct to a purist but hey I'm happy with it. I could care less. Thanks
STafford

[FSG]

but hey I'm happy with it

and that's all that matters      

[JSD]

Swing arm frame started in 1958 and has rear shockers. Your bike is a Rigid frame unless a hard tail weld on. Your frame should be a Wishbone Frame post som pics 

[Fugawee]

JSD...You beat Me to it as far as the Frame...

Well, There You have it is right.  That's one mean Kick-Startin' Leg You got there.
And That's All that Matters is right as well!
You mention that it may be a 65' Swing-Arm Frame, and You are not sure what that means.  From where I'm sitting and what I'm looking at, it does not appear to Me that is a Swing-Arm Frame on the Pan.  Might be a ?...but not a Swing-Arm.  Or...My Eyes are worse than I thought.
The easiest way for Me to explain what a Swing-Arm Frame is...is to look at that Sportster in the first picture You posted, or if its sitting at Your place.  See the two Shocks on each side in the Rear?  Where the two Shocks mount at the bottom...that is the Swing-Arm.  The Rear Axle/Wheel is also going thru the Swing-Arm.  I have seen Parts and Service Manuals that will also refer to the Swing-Arm as the Rear Fork.
I hope that I did not misunderstand You stating that You were not sure what it means by a 65' Swing-Arm Frame and insult Your intelligence.
Other than that, after a few "Getting to Know" You Sessions on the Pan...You should be just fine.
Enjoy it!  Ride Safe.

As a little adder here...take a look at the "Show Your Pan" thread here up at the Top of the Pan Topics.
There are plenty to look at to maybe familiarize Yourself with as far as the Frame Differences go.

[stafford]

I read where  the builder said it was a swing arm frame and I'm thinking it does'nt look like any swing arm I ever saw. I think when he wrote all this stuff down he was getting on up there in  age like maybe 90? He might have got mixed up a little. I won't hold it against him. haahahaha. No insults to my intelligence. I've got a pretty good sense of humor and don't let much get me stirred up. No problems  on my end. I don't think it's had a hard tail welded to it but I will check in to it.
Stafford

[Hossamania]

Swingarm frame has shocks. The picture posted by JSD with the hot chic standing behind it is a hardtail frame.
Take a look under the bags, that will tell the story.

[kd]

It's a wishbone rigid frame.

[Hossamania]

Hardtail, rigid wish one, tomato, tomato

 

[kd]

Hardtail, rigid wish one, tomato, tomato

 

    You may be misunderstanding my post Hoss.  Even without any other pics (which would end the rear suspension  part of the conversation) I am sayin Stafford's motorcycle is in fact a wishbone front leg early rigid frame.  Go to the video of Stafford starting the bike. Pause the video at the right time and you will see the tool kit mounted under the bags. The seat pan area doesn't appear to have a swingarm support leg.   Later on in the video a slice of the front of the frame is in view and paused you can see the wishbone curve at the top of the front frame tubes.  All swingarm frames are straight leg.

For interest sake, the rigid frame rear axle castings (not in view) are similar to the early panhead round swingarm axle castings and that lends itself to the easy use of a hydraulic rear drum brake.  The square swingarm appeared in the alternator shovelhead years.  The rear master cylinder is a bolt on item with the right parts.

BTW, it's a panhead and they go Potato Potato 

[Hossamania]

I was confused, like normal. Confessed under my avatar.

[kd]

I was confused, like normal. Confessed under my avatar.

After church I hope 

[Hossamania]

I was confused, like normal. Confessed under my avatar.

After church I hope 

Church! Good one!

[Hossamania]

I was confused, like normal. Confessed under my avatar.

I should have said confessed in my signature in my avatar.

[Speeding Big Twin]

Stafford, in your first photo we could see it wasn't a swingarm frame. But when you first mentioned a 65 frame I figured the guy had access to a 65 frame as I indicated above. That's why I said it may explain the master cylinder because all 65 Pans had a master cylinder, and a hydraulic drum rear brake.

In another thread you mentioned that laying on the floor under where the bike was sitting was a 3/8" bolt probably 3 inches long that vibrated out and you had a feeling it might be for the transmission. I wonder if it was the adjusting screw which threads into the back of the trans case? And there should be a support strap for it that is bolted to the trans mounting plate. 
Eric

[stafford]

Nossir it's not like that, It doesn't have that nut on it. and it's fine thread nearly all the whole length. I have a feeling somebody somewhere down the line maybe used it for a punch and it got away from them and ended up laying somewhere getting oil leaked on it for who knows how long. When  I can get it on  my table lift it'll be easier to scope some of this stuff out a lot better. I just don't know what got in to me saying i didin't even know what a swingarm frame meant. I've been having bikes since i was 17 or 18. that would be 50 years. And who would know how accurate the ol boys memory was when he was writing his memoirs. Just in case anybody here could have met him his name was Wesley Lane from Greenback Tennessee. He seems to be well thought of at Smokey Mountain HD in Maryville Tennessee. I need to make it up there and maybe get to ask about him a little. If anybody there still remembers him. brake light isn't working and the bulb is good I don't know where to find the switch on the thing and it's pretty tough for me to get down in the floor to look for it. guess I'll have to wait to get it on the lift. Appreciate the heck out of all yall joining in on this. You've been a lot of help and encouragement to me. And it means a lot. BTW what oil should  I use in it. The oil that's in it is leaking out  and it seems to be pretty good oil, kinda green in color and pretty heavy. Sooner  or later i'll have to add some to it.
Thanks, Stafford

[JSD]

Swingarm frame has shocks. The picture posted by JSD with the hot chic standing behind it is a hardtail frame.
Take a look under the bags, that will tell the story.

Thats Mum Hoss 90 in June

[printer]

Nice bike Phil!

[Deye76]

Yeah it's a rigid frame, beautiful bike you have. Unless your going to work on the motor and trans internals, most tools on hand will suffice. For instance a steering wheel puller will get the clutch hub off the keyed shaft easily when needed. I live near Greenback, Wesley is well known. He had a 52' Panhead, car pulled out in front of him, broke both arms, bike pretty well totaled. His friend Ron Devine(RIP) and Wesley built a couple of Pans, so yours could be Wesley's or the one Ron had that they built before they went to Sturgis years ago. My friends Dad and Wesley worked on Harley's together many years ago. Rebuilt a lot 45 cu in engines.

[stafford]

Dye 76 I'm pretty sure this was Wesleys Bike and he got rid of it in 89 I think. He wrote some info on the bottom of the battery cover. The fellow I got  it from is a trader, he'll trade on anything. I think he mostly got it to flip. He said he got it out of a shed where it had been sitting for years. he had to clean the carb and dump the gas and put  some fresh gas in it, The battery cover said that he built the engine and maybe Devine painted the bike. He said he thought it was the  prettiest bike he ever had in his little book. Ive googled him and apparentlyl he still lives  in greenback.  He was born in 1929 so he's getting up there. I'd like to ride it to his house if he still lives at home and show it to him. I'm sure he thought he'd never see it again. thanks Dye, appreciat it.
Stafford.

[Deye76]

stafford, if you live in the area I'm at the Shed (SMHD) for lunch on Fridays.

[stafford]

Dye I live down 411 south.  According to google it's 97.3 miles from here. Although I've been there several times. But it's been a while since i've been there. What time do you usually have your lunch? I need to get up there and buy you lunch. Is Wesley still active at all? I've thought if he was I'd like to get more comfortable on the panhead and take it to his house. If he's like most of us I think He'd like that. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, the thread had kinda slowed down and I thought it had played out. Thanks Dye.
Stafford

[Deye76]

I'm usually there between noon and 1:00. I'll find out if Wes get's around. If not maybe my friend can arrange for him and me to pick him up and bring him to Smokey Mountain HD.

[stafford]

Sounds good to  me.
Stafford

[nmainehunter]

No one has answered the tools question yet so I'll give it a shot. You can go along way with a 3/8-7/16-1/2-9/16 and a 5/8 open and box end wrench and the same sockets. I like 12 point sockets but can be bolt head strippers if the are worn. Craftsman tools have served me well through the years, great warrantee and descent quality. Some are better and some are worse. The front engine shaft nut requires a 1 3/8 - 1 1/2 wrench depending on whats there. If you have a belt drive it may be different than a stock drive.

Inside the inner primary holds the front engine sprocket and the transmission/clutch parts. To take the clutch plates out, you should fab a simple tool to hold the clutch plate pack together and to make life much easier. The tool to do this has many versions, I simply get a large washer just a bit larger than the hole in the center of the spring plate and a smaller washer that is just a bit larger than the inside diameter of the larger washer and a 3/8" or a bit larger inside to fit over the center clutch adjust nut. I tack weld the two washers together, makes it much easier.
In order to remove the clutch hub you need an 1 1/8" deep socket which you would be better off making because it is deeper than anything that you can by. I'm a welder so some of this stuff is easy for me and to make this tool I went to a discount tool store and bought a cheap 1 1/8" deep socket along with a piece of pipe. Cut the socket somewhat near in halve and weld the socket ends to make a deeper, deep socket. This tool can be made in a few ways. Normally sockets this large fall into the 3/4" drive world and most people don't have this stuff, as well as most people not having a welding machine either, but hear you can weld the socket end to the pipe or find a larger nut to fit the largest wrench you halve and weld it to the pipe. IMPORTANT, this socket is made to go backwards cause the nut holding the clutch hub on is LEFTHANDED. This brings us to the nut that holds the front drive sprocket which is 1 7/8" and also is LEFTHANDED and requires a similar tool as the clutch but there are a few options such as slug wrenches and a few others, I just made one similar to the clutch.

There are places that are good sources for tools like pawn shops, swap meets and yard sales. I made my living twisting wrenches and using tools you would probably would never see or never mentioned but earn a spot in the top drawer of the tool box because you found that it would do a job that it was never intended for. Harley made oodles of these one purpose tools. Part of the journey, Enjoy.

[kd]

No one has answered the tools question yet so I'll give it a shot. You can go along way with a 3/8-7/16-1/2-9/16 and a 5/8 open and box end wrench and the same sockets. I like 12 point sockets but can be bolt head strippers if the are worn. Craftsman tools have served me well through the years, great warrantee and descent quality. Some are better and some are worse. The front engine shaft nut requires a 1 3/8 - 1 1/2 wrench depending on whats there. If you have a belt drive it may be different than a stock drive.

Inside the inner primary holds the front engine sprocket and the transmission/clutch parts. To take the clutch plates out, you should fab a simple tool to hold the clutch plate pack together and to make life much easier. The tool to do this has many versions, I simply get a large washer just a bit larger than the hole in the center of the spring plate and a smaller washer that is just a bit larger than the inside diameter of the larger washer and a 3/8" or a bit larger inside to fit over the center clutch adjust nut. I tack weld the two washers together, makes it much easier.
In order to remove the clutch hub you need an 1 1/8" deep socket which you would be better off making because it is deeper than anything that you can by. I'm a welder so some of this stuff is easy for me and to make this tool I went to a discount tool store and bought a cheap 1 1/8" deep socket along with a piece of pipe. Cut the socket somewhat near in halve and weld the socket ends to make a deeper, deep socket. This tool can be made in a few ways. Normally sockets this large fall into the 3/4" drive world and most people don't have this stuff, as well as most people not having a welding machine either, but hear you can weld the socket end to the pipe or find a larger nut to fit the largest wrench you halve and weld it to the pipe. IMPORTANT, this socket is made to go backwards cause the nut holding the clutch hub on is LEFTHANDED. This brings us to the nut that holds the front drive sprocket which is 1 7/8" and also is LEFTHANDED and requires a similar tool as the clutch but there are a few options such as slug wrenches and a few others, I just made one similar to the clutch.

There are places that are good sources for tools like pawn shops, swap meets and yard sales. I made my living twisting wrenches and using tools you would probably would never see or never mentioned but earn a spot in the top drawer of the tool box because you found that it would do a job that it was never intended for. Harley made oodles of these one purpose tools. Part of the journey, Enjoy.

You still need something to anchor the clutch hub when removing or torqueing the nut on the main shaft or the hub will just rotate.  An old clutch fiber with an 18" to 24" 5/8"  bar with one end welded to where the fiber surface was.  Remove the clutch pac, slide the disc onto the studs and the tail of the bar can lay on the floor, lift table or on some blocking on the ground to prevent the hub from turning under the torque of the socket when loosening or tightening.

[twincamzz]

I bolted the flat stock on mine because I didn't have access to a welder at the time.

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[nmainehunter]

There is a lot more for sure. Some people feel that an air impact should be avoided, especially on a taper but it's a  personal thing for some.

Short of going through the local tool outlet, the service manual covers most every special tool needed and a good set of quality wrenches, sockets, screw drivers, pliers, with a multimeter and some electrical tools will go along way. However, there are never enough tools. Enjoy

[nmainehunter]

that works

[kd]

There is a lot more for sure. Some people feel that an air impact should be avoided, especially on a taper but it's a  personal thing for some.

Short of going through the local tool outlet, the service manual covers most every special tool needed and a good set of quality wrenches, sockets, screw drivers, pliers, with a multimeter and some electrical tools will go along way. However, there are never enough tools. Enjoy

The important thing to remember about tapers (transmission or flywheel) is bone dry clean and no lube.  Even finger prints.  Any lube will risk drawing it down too far and stretching the hole.

twincamzz, that'll get it done.

[4DWUDS]

If it's a true taper shaft bottom end you will need a 1/4 x 24 tap and die . if you get deep into restoration , you will find all the motor and tranny places that require this tool to clean out and retread holes and screws .

[CraigArizona85248]

If it's a true taper shaft bottom end you will need a 1/4 x 24 tap and die . if you get deep into restoration , you will find all the motor and tranny places that require this tool to clean out and retread holes and screws .

Dang Patrick!  First post in 13 years.  Missed you!  Hope all is well.

That's a good point about the 1/4x24 tap. It's an oddball size so best to order one before you need it. Your local hardware isn't likely to have it.

Another helpful tool is a 7/16" Allen wrench for removing the wheel lugs. It's a lot simpler to remove the wheels by leaving the brake drums on the bike. You need to remove the lugs that hold the brake drum to the starhub to do that.

[4DWUDS]

Hiya Craig , yeah , kinda went into laying low for a spell , lotta cross country tours and then medical issues . Heard you moved into snow country , trying to keep mileage low on that pan ?🤣🤣🤣.

[stafford]

I've lost power to the points. I have power going in one side of the coil but none  coming out of the other side. I'm not really sure it's sposed to have. I can't figure out how this system works. could somebody give me a a  simple lesson on  it? Thanks
STAfford

[kd]

The power comes from the battery (through the switch) to one side of the coil in a small wire. You test it by touching your meter to that post and to ground and you should read voltage. You can also use a test light from that post to ground.

The other side of the coil, that small wire goes to your points.  When the points are closed the internal coil windings are electrified.  When the points open the electric field in the coil windings collapses and creates the high voltage spark that comes out of the plug wires.

When there is power at the feed side (switch) there will or should be power to the point side.   Put your meter or test light to the coil connection and the other end or probe to ground. It should read power or light the test light if that's what you are using. Also with the switch on, you should be able to short across the points by scratching with a small screwdriver and see a light spark.  If you are getting a spark by opening and closing the points (or scratching them if already open) the circuit is not broken.

If you still don't get a reading from both sides, disconnect them and with your meter on ohms touch each test lead to each post that you just disconnected at the same time.  The needle or readout should show some activity indicating both terminals are internally joined.  If you make it to the last test and there is no ohm reading or activity, that usually indicates a failed circuit in that coil  winding.

Good luck.  It's an easy test

[stafford]

Thanks KD that's very helpful. I have power from the switch to the coil but no  power coming out the other side of the coil. I felt like the  coil is bad so i ordered one and it's supposed to be here by the 24th.
How much does the condenser have to do with all that. I've put plugs, points and condensers in a lot of cars and trucks before electronic ignitions came along but i cant remember ever having a condenser go bad on me.  Thanks KD for taking the time to answer my ignorant question.
Stafford

[kd]

Thanks KD that's very helpful. I have power from the switch to the coil but no  power coming out the other side of the coil. I felt like the  coil is bad so i ordered one and it's supposed to be here by the 24th.
How much does the condenser have to do with all that. I've put plugs, points and condensers in a lot of cars and trucks before electronic ignitions came along but i cant remember ever having a condenser go bad on me.  Thanks KD for taking the time to answer my ignorant question.
Stafford

Simply put, is that the condenser is a device used to absorb the excess electrical energy from the primary windings of the coil when the points open.  It is just a roll of foil. It is simply a cushion so to speak. If it wasn't there the points would arc across to each side in such a flash that the power would still flow through the coil and the secondary wouldn't have time to be able to collapse and make the heavy spark needed to cause the spark plug arc. 

The simplistic explanation is if the condenser was to fail it will not prevent the power from reaching either of the coil terminals. There are only 2 things that will occur with a bad condenser.  It shorts and  goes directly to ground and doesn't protect the points, or it has an open fault not letting the electrical energy in, which will cause it to not protect the points.  Either fail can burn or pit the points with metal transfer much like a miniature stick welder. It will result in a no start / no run condition. Testing the power at the coil and the points will still show electricity is making it to those points (no pun intended).

[Hossamania]

A failed condenser will occasionally allow a motor to start, but it will misfire excessively and in a random pattern.

[kd]

A failed condenser will occasionally allow a motor to start, but it will misfire excessively and in a random pattern.

That's very true.  In fact a failed condenser does often show up as poor running shortly before it fails. On that case you may even notice what looks like burned points when it finally dies. 

More often IMO the condenser will fail (or start to fail) as a result of cooling after being shut off hot.  They are really no more that a roll of foil with a paper barrier between the layers. They expand and contract with engine heat.  I have experienced new condensers fail often enough that I reverted to not changing them with the points unless I saw an indication of excessive metal transfer and pitting on the point contacts.  Kinda like if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[stafford]

It's hard to beat experience and you fellas seem to have a lot of it! I sure do thank you for sharing it with me and anyone else that may need it. I should get the new coil by the 24th and I have a lot of confidence that it will fix the no  spark trouble. I've had several days with nice temperatures that i could have taken the old girl out for a ride or two and try to get to know that rocker clutch a little better. For me it's kinda tricky. Thanks guys, Stafford

[stafford]

My new coil got here yesterday and I put it on and the bike started right up. Sure am happy about that. The ol thing runs great. Thanks to you fellas for offering up your advice. Like i said it's hard to beat experience. Now we're looking at a cooler temperatures and rain in the forecast. It'll get nice and I'll get to ride it later. I'm fairly impatient,  don't like to wait for anything. I  don't reckon I'm the only one like that. I'll get my chances to figure out how to deal with the rocker clutch. Thanks fellas,
Stafford

[kd]

My new coil got here yesterday and I put it on and the bike started right up. Sure am happy about that. The ol thing runs great. Thanks to you fellas for offering up your advice. Like i said it's hard to beat experience. Now we're looking at a cooler temperatures and rain in the forecast. It'll get nice and I'll get to ride it later. I'm fairly impatient,  don't like to wait for anything. I  don't reckon I'm the only one like that. I'll get my chances to figure out how to deal with the rocker clutch. Thanks fellas,
Stafford

Take some credit for yourself stafford. You tested it, found something unusual and recognized that, explained it well, understood it from the discussion, ordered a coil and fixed it.    . 

[stafford]

Thanks KD around here theres an old saying, even a  blind hog'll find an acorn every onece in a while. Ya'll have a good evening.
Stafford

[Deye76]

I've had bad condensers right out of the box.

[Ohio HD]

We had an older mechanic when I was a younger fellow running the auto parts / service business. He'd look at the points under a magnifying glass, if they weren't burnt in any way he'd reuse the old condenser. It may have been the right mechanics solution, but the owner would get mad because he sent a car out with the old part.

[Hossamania]

I've had bad condensers right out of the box.

Same.

[kd]

We had an older mechanic when I was a younger fellow running the auto parts / service business. He'd look at the points under a magnifying glass, if they weren't burnt in any way he'd reuse the old condenser. It may have been the right mechanics solution, but the owner would get mad because he sent a car out with the old part.

That's what I was mentioning in my previous post.  If the condenser is failing you will usually see one side pitted and the other with buildup.  It's like welding metal transfer.  If the points were cherry I left well enough alone.  Believe it or not I still have a few new condensers in one of my tool box drawers (in case I need them    )


Like I said, the condenser is a little storage cell. Here's a good prank way    to test a condenser.  Ground the case on the block and use plug wire to the center wire or strap. As long as you only touch either the case or wire only, you can handle it. If you become the link between the two, you'll wish you hadn't.  Now here's the way you test the condenser.  Charge it up and toss it to a not so good friend.  When they catch it you can usually gauge by the language he uses if it can be reused.    

 

[Ohio HD]

Yeah in high school shop class we'd charge them and just toss them to someone. They'd catch it and OH S**T!

[Dave_R]

Looks like my post keeept getting deleted for some reason.

Just a bit of information, on my FLE, it came stock with a 61" cam and the linkert stock carburetor was also for a 61" motor (M61B), not a 74B like most other 74" models use.  This can be updated to make it perform better.  changing these to a cam /carb more suited for a 74" motor really helped while still maintaining the stock look.

Also, these tapered shaft motors mostly came with solid motor sprockets that like to eat primary chains.  I used to need to change my chain evert 5K miles until I went with a spring compensator sprocket.  They fit a tapered shaft, and have a thin hex head nut (not the round four hole nut used on splines shaft motors). 
These are hard to find as these were a dealer option only back then.
 Dave R

[stafford]

okay here we go another dumb question. I thought there was trash in the tank and had the carb plugged up but there wasn't anything in there. I'm thinking the float was sticking in the bowl and thats why it would randomly stop running temporarily. Here's my question. The kit I order came with a needle valve that was steel. the one that was in it originally had a rubber tip on it. I'm just wondering which needle valve I should use. rubber tipped or steel tipped. I'm leaning towards the rubber valve. I'm hoping my shoulder will settle down enough so i can stand there and put the carb back together. Thanks for any help fellas.
Stafford