OT Windows XP vs. Vista programs.

[HogBob]

My seven year old Dell PC is crappin' out and I'm looking to get a reasonably priced replacement. A salesman at an independant computer store told me that the new PCs for sale at places like BestBuy are all programmed with Vista which is not as good as the Windows XP Home edition in my old computer. He also says that Vista will be replaced in about 3 months because of problems and difficulty with it. Does anybody on HTT have an opinion??? I'm so computer illiterate That I don't know what to believe but I know a lot of the HTT members are very computer savvy. I don't need  a lot of programs for technical stuff since I don't use a lot of the programs that were preinstalled when I bought the Dell in 2003. I just need it for Email, Internet brousing, storing my photos and typing letters, etc.. No downloading music, movies, hitech games, etc.. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated since I trust HTT members a lot more than computer salesmen.

Bob

[4DWUDS]

Get a MAC.

[yahmon]

Using both, XP in desktop, and Vista home premium in laptop. They are similar and transition from XP to Vista is smooth.
Never had problems with XP, very stable platform. Early Vista had numerous glitches, and today's Vista seems as good as old reliable XP.
There are a few Companies that offer Vista as standard, but will downgrade to XP for additional $(appealing to the XP die hard group).
Support for XP has been stated to become extinct in very near future, not sure of date. Vista is supposed to be a more secure operating platform than XP-I know, It's all hype and time will prove all. Then there are the Mac (Apple) group that swear by it. Never used it so can't comment.

As far as the XP downgrade for premium $ add on, I believe it is only available as XP Professional, and not the Media edition which is what I am used to in desktop PC. I did have an issue with the PC processor in my PC, AMD Athalon, which pucked when Windows SP3 service pack was installed automatically through Windows Update. Microsoft did attempt to support my processor/ download incompatibility, but screwed it up even worse and had to do a complete system restore and begin all over. Learned my lesson, as Microsoft and HP were both aware of the issues on SP3 and AMD Athalon, but never made user/consumer aware til after damage was done, sooo my newest laptop is dual core processor by Intel, and I selectively download updates from Microsoft as I see fit.
Ask your friends that have the latest Vista platform, not the early releases, in order to satisfy your concern. By the way, never had good luck with Dell,
as the XP that was pre loaded did not pass Windows Validation process and was tagged as pirated software-go figure. Hope this some help to your dilemma.

[Ed Y]

If I was in your shoes, I'd hold off until Windows 7 (new, enlightened version) is available this fall. Most everything I've read and heard about it, will make it a good replacement for XP. JMO

What's the problem with your Dell?? Maybe it can be salvaged for a few months.

[FSG]

I've tried Vista but don't like it.  The last 6 Notebooks I purchased (4 at work, 2 at home) were bought with the "downgrade to XP Pro" option, yes a few $$$ more but worth it IMO and I'm now looking for another new Notebook. 
Windows 7 is due for release in October 09 (??) and so that new PC sales don't stall in the months prior to a new WinOS release Microsoft provides free upgrades from one version to the latest.  I believe that in Australia June 26 is the magic date, PC's purchased on or after that date will be eligible for the upgrade to Win 7 when it's released in October.  I've a bit more checking to do today but if what I've heard is true I'll hang off the purchase until after June 26. 

Check with one of the PC chains in the US, CompUSA, Fry's, etc, for the real story and hold off if you can.

[Garry in AZ]

XP at my business, Vista at home. Have used XP since it came out... and Vista for almost 2 years now. Vista had early issues, which now seem solved. Got to keep up on the updates, etc.
Windows 7 will have teething problems too I'd bet... If I had to buy a new PC today, I'd be okay with Vista or XP. Most eveything you can buy for home use these days comes with some version of Vista. It's stable now, so you should be fine with it, although it's a bit different looking from XP.

Garry

[texaskatfish]

Hugging my XP Pro tightly......................unless some dramatic change appears I'm hangin on to XP Pro until the bitter end. Maybe I'll get lucky and get to skip Vista altogether..............

XP Pro has been the most stable of all the O/Ss I've used - WIN95, 98, ME, 2000, and XP Home..............Win2000 was the next best and ME was the worst.............

[crow]

I am running Windows 7 right now. Fast and smooth so far. Only problem so far no drivers for my scaner / printer.


If you can wait get 7

[GaryD]

I have both XP and just bought Vista. Love XP ---hate Vista, it's way to slow for me. I hate anything that I have to start all over to learn. Everything is different on the Vista. The only reason I bought the Vista was because my old computer wasn't big enough to play Fallout 3.

[FastFLSTF]

The newer Vista versions are fine if you have the RAM to run them well.  Lots of "program stopped working" issues which are frustrating.  I do like the newer 64 bit versions for photo editing, etc. 

[NETacomaFatboy]

I have 3 systems.  One running XP Pro and 2nd running Vista 32 bits.  My most recent purchase was a laptop that came with Vista Premium 64 bits.  I have a program that will not work on 64 bits and am SOL.  Make sure you know which Vista you are getting and if all your programs will work with it.

[springer-]

Some of the concerns posted are valid while others, not so much.

I run ALL versions of Windows OS but mostly current ones. 
Problems with Vista 64 not running all programs are the same as XP 64.
Vista is not much different than XP if you shut off all the eye candy.  This is also reduces the slowness associated with Vista.  To do so, go to control panel --> Performance Info and Tools --> Advanced Tools --> Adjust the appearance and performance --> Select "Adjust for best performance".  Then in the bottom check off "Show thumbnails instead of icons".  There are other tweaks as well but that will give the XP feel back.
The XP Downgrade options is a little more money as stated but it also comes with Vista.  So you get 2 operating systems not just a downgrade for extra cost.

The rule of thumb I use with ALL Microsoft products is to wait until after the first year to buy them or upgrade.  ALL previous Microsoft OS's had problems when released.  Then we (the consumer) become the beta testers for Microsoft until they work out many of the issues.  It also takes much of the industry some time to catch up with drivers, upgrades, new releases etc.  In much of the business world proprietary software takes even longer to catch up.  What I recommend to my customers is based on a complete evaluation of their requirements and compatibility.  For the average home user I recommend staying with current products.  The industry moves away from older product.  Holding on to the old OS will likely catch up when you can no longer upgrade just to stay current.  If I were buying a New PC, I would not be considering OS nearing the end of its life expectancy.

Hope that helps a little.

[WVULTRA]

Springer:

Good info from someone that knows..........   

However, IMO, XP Pro has been the best OS Microsoft has ever produced!  Yes, one can adapt to Vista once all the self-help BS is turned off.  Got a laptop with Vista 32 on it?  Open up Task Manager and look at all the processes/applications running in the background.  And we wonder why it takes so much RAM!

I honestly think Vista will be remembered in the same league as Windows ME!

[PoorUB]

I am runnig Vista on this computer, no problems, I don't know what all the fuss is about! Vista does need more RAM, but RAM is cheap. At work all the computers are running Vista, no problems. We do have 2-3 laptops running XP and my last computer was XP so I have used both. The only thing to consider if you go with Vista is any old programs or hardware you may want to use may not run on Vista. If you are starting over with a totally new system, then it is a toss up. Whne I changed over to Vista my 6 month old printer did not have drivers for Vista, and the manufacturer said they would not have drivers for that prnter and Vista. Strange thing was I dragged an 3 year old printer out of storage and there were drivers for it with Vista.
Vista is differant than XP to some degree so it takes some getting used to the slight differances, but it is not big deal. In most ways it is very simular to XP.

[elamey]

Get the XP machine
1. Vista is horrible and so broken they rushed Windows7 out to cover their rears.
2. Very few corporations and nerds (i'm a nerd so I am allowed) purchase a new Microsoft OS until SP1 comes out.

Besides Windows 2000, XP is the best OS Redmond ever put out. Even with Windows7 on the way you can expect to see significant resistance to it among corporations, programmers, gamers and other hard core performance users. XP is fast and light compared to vista and the early beta reviews i've seen on Windows7 said it's just Vista with all the UAC nanny pop ups removed. Still slow and bulky.

So don't wait to buy a Windows7 v1.0 PC, get an xp box.
By the time XP extended support ends it will be time for another PC anyway.

To clear up some information from above. Microsoft is sheduled to stop mainstream support in 2009 yes, but and this is a big but they will continue extended support until 2014. That means they continue to develop security and bug patches, drivers and software upadates..until 2014. By then Windows7 may be worth buying. Think that Windows 2000 still has extend support until 7/13/2010 so XP Extended support SCHEDULED to end in 2014  figure on them moving that out a year or two.

Don't worry about XP going out of date, you will need a new PC before then.

http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifeselectwin    if you want to research it yourself

----Edit-----
I saw a quote about Vista being good if you turn all the eye candy off. Yes that is mostly true. But you have to consider who is using the PC. Not everyone is capable of doing a days worth the reconfiguration to get Vista working properly. Google Vista hacks or Speed up vista for info. An example is Vista is set to defrag your hdd on the fly, not a bad idea, but it will make your PC crawl while it's working. Another is UAC control, Vista pesters you every time you try to open a file "do you really want to start the program you just clicked on? YES!!! until it "trains" itself. At times Vista decides it wants to index every file on your HDD, again not a bad thing, but it will make the box crawl for a long while. Folder access, network file updating, Vista meta data, on and on with the stuff that has to be turned off to make Vista reasonable. Not everyone can do that kind of config.

Hey wvultra - good one     Vista = XPMe   

[cactuscruiser]

Forget windows alltogether! Go Linux Ubuntu! It's all free!

[elamey]

Bob, one more quick point. If you have a grandkid/neph/niece who is into PC's in your family ask them to help. Or ask the people you trust, almost every family/group has a trusted computer person in their crew. Also, laptops are almost equivilent to desktops now days, just a little more expensive. But get the right size laptop, you can take it on your motorcycle trips. Many businesses like starbucks and most hotels have free wireless internet. Very handy for booking the next days room before leaving on the mornings ride.

[ssls6]

I resisted Vista until 3 months ago.  I needed a new laptop for my apartment so I bought a lenovo 64 bit Core Duo T5800 4gig ram setup for $600.  Vista64 has been great on this laptop and is at the SP1 level.  No complaints.  I would also have been happy with XP.SP3 but that wasn't available.  It is a hell of a multimedia notebook for the money.

I would not wait on windows 7 and go through the frustration of getting everything to work.  Wait for windows 7 SP1 (usoft has trained most computer savvy people to wait).  I would also not pay extra for XP.  Vista is not that different once you get it figured out.  XP wasn't all that good when it was released but by SP2 it was great and SP3 made it awesome.

RLK

[FXDBI]

    Kid bought a new HP last Oct AMD Phenom 3core processor . Came with Vista Home Premium,added 2 more gig of RAM to max it at 4. This is the max for Vista you need the 64 version to use more. Machine runs like a top,flawless. This is a upper end machine lotsa power and max RAM. Vista runs best with the max, "Potty mouth" it needs 1gig just for the OS. The cheaper slower processors are dogs with it,they need XP. It only needs 512 to run the OS. Microsoft had to make a OS that would run using way less resources so we get the new windows 7. If you must buy a new box get a upper end one with some power and max out the RAM its cheap to do.......Just my $.02....Bob

[MikeL]

How hard would it be to just transfer the O/S from the 7 yr old machine to the new machine? You have the disc. You are the user of your O/S. I down graded from ME to win 98 se. Back then pirated versions were available for 98 se. ME was such junk I heard Vista was bad but not as bad as ME.

                                                                                            MIKE

[L-]

Where I work they will not use Vista.  They have had it an have been messing with it since it came out but on one has it installed on their personal use computer. Maybe in the future but we have a million computers, security issues, etc.  The computer gurus are using Vista at home and I am looking for a computer also.  The advise from three of our best is get a Mac to avoid all virus stuff.  I am pretty illiterate on computers also.

L-

[Dennis The Menace]

Bob, sounds like simple is better for you.  Vista interface has a little learning curve over XP, but not much.  I found that out when I bought my dad a new laptop last year, and it had Vista on it.  He called me several times wanting to know how to get to Solitaire.  lol  He does like the new games in Vista, however.

But, other than that, dont worry about going to Vista--it will be fine for you.  There are issues with it for bigger applications, which you are not running, so no worries.  It will look a little different, but you will get it quickly.

As for Win7, I have been a MS alpha and beta tester since 92.  Its a more stable and reliable OS for many apps and the interface isnt a lot different from Vista.  Also, MS will be providing a free upgrade from Vista to Win7 with a new PC, probably begining in August.  Win7 will be released in October, and MS makes a free upgrade avavailable if you buy a new PC within 45-60 days of new OS product launch.

So, if you wait until August to buy a new PC, you would have an option to go to Win7 from Vista for free, if you dont like it or want to upgrade.

But, given your use of the PC as you describe, either OS is good for you.  A Mac would be good too, but most likely more money for the same compute power.  But, it has a lot less security issues with it, which dont require a lot of add-on programs to keep you protected from stuff.

Hope this helps.

menace

[RainDodger]

Simple solution. I work at the place where these OSs come from.... I have been running early versions of Windows 7 for months. Wait a little while for a machine that comes with Win 7. It is far, far, (did I say FAR?) better than Vista. It is faster, more stable and more secure. It boots far quicker, it shuts down far quicker.

My home machine is older than yours - I run WinXP on it. I do not run Vista on anything and I never will again. Win7 is far superior. I'd bet you'll see it sooner than you think. Truly.... you'll really like Win7.

[zoot]

Go with Vista don't backstep. On every OS Microsoft came out with from Dos,3.0, 95,98,Me (that one did suck a little), XP there where the naysayers.
For what you want to do Vista with 4G memory, SP1  will work fine. The early Vista did have some problems (so did XP) and It does need a little more memory.It also has more stuff it is doing. SP1 was a help.There will be a slight learning curve as there is some new stuff it does or the name or location of some old stuff has changed. But on a new motherboard with a quad processor,4G memory Vista rocks. Take that same motherboard and processor and try to install a old copy of XP on it. You will spend most of the day pulling your hair out trying to get drivers to get it to work. I do computers and I try not to install XP unless there is a software or device issue (a older Hughes Satellite internet system) or the person insist. Some older devices might not work (printers) but that can be worked around or get a new printer.There cheap now.I was running Vista over a year before it was released and I wouldn't go back to XP and I am now running Windows 7 on my main computer and I wouldn't go back to Vista because Windows 7 has a few things in it that are better.I have 7 computers in my home network with various versions on microsoft OS or Linux on them. Computer  technology changes every day don't step backwards.   knuckleheads where great in there day but would you take a 3000 mile trip on one now?  If you get a new computer get the new OS. Just my 2 cents.

[murf]

Many perceived operating system upgrade problems that users experience are really application compatibility and/or peripheral problems.  If the extent of your computing needs are email, web browsing and basic "Office" functions like spreadsheet and word processing, I would wait for Windows 7 and get the latest and greatest.  If you're an advanced user with some more specialized applications, you may have to wait for a version upgrade or service pack for your favorite software that allows it to work with Windows 7.  The same is true with peripherals like printers, scanners, etc.  A new operating system may make your older hardware junk if the maker of that hardware or OS doesn't provide new drivers.  In that case, stick with what works, like XP.

Think of it the same way you think about an '03 bike versus an '09 bike.  If you're thinking about moving a bunch of parts like cams and accessories like seats from the old bike to the new bike, it's not going to happen.  If you're going to keep it basically stock and are willing to pay for future mods as you go, upgrade.  

[kik]

I run  all XP pro at my company, I wouldn't trade it for anything but as some others have said support is going to stop for this OS. Other mfg's are not going to make their software compatible for XP also. I have played with Vista some and although it is slow and bulky, harder to figure out where your going. You can revert it back to the so called classic look of XP or some would say 98. It's still vista but it looks a little more like XP and makes it a little easier to mover around in. The later versions of Vista are a lot more stable than they used to be. I haven't heard of to many problem with it. 

[elamey]

Bob, I just re-read your post. Based on the statement "I am computer illiterate...."
Make this easy on yourself. Get the XP machine. It will look just like what you have now.

By the time XP becomes obslete you will need a new box anyway. Go with what you know. XP will look just like your current pc. It won't be outdated etc... for a good 5-7 years


You will NOT be behind on drivers or updates. Windows xp runs 63% of the PCs in the world. So of course any new hardware device will have an XP driver until another OS takes over. Extended support on XP is scheduled to end in 2014, expect them to move that out another 3-5 years.

Despite the post by "the guy who works where the OS's are made" Windows7 will be buggy and a hassle until SP1. "the guy who works where the OS's are made" and his crew screwed office up so much that it's almost un-usable. If they did the same thing to Windows7 you won't be able to find a thing. Win7 will have an xp mode, but it will be a virtual XP session within windows 7, not a native instance. In short, xp mode will be buggy, slow and unstable. Sadly Windows7 is simply a repackage of Vista. It's still same bloated unstable kernel as Vista. Microsoft refuses to learn from Mac or linux os's

[RainDodger]

Interesting take on things, elamey. Don't expect XP support to "move out another 3-5 years". As for a re-packaging of Vista, think again. It's people like you who purport to pass on fact when they really don't have the facts to pass on. What I passed on is my opinion based on facts garnered from working here for many years and actual experience with the things I'm talking about.

I'll be leaving this thread now, as I won't get into an argument regarding opinions.

[elamey]

My data is NEVER based on opinion, i've read it in tons of trade magazines and blogs including technet.
You can google it real quick and get tons of articles like this one.
The headline reads

MS: No new kernel for Windows 7, same requirements as Vista
Chris Flores of the Windows Client Communications Team "Contrary to some speculation, Microsoft is not creating a new kernel for Windows 7." said Flores..

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2008/05/ms-no-new-kernel-for-windows-7-same-requirements-as-vista.ars

No opinion here...just citing an article. Thanks for playing

Interesting take on things, elamey. Don't expect XP support to "move out another 3-5 years". As for a re-packaging of Vista, think again. It's people like you who purport to pass on fact when they really don't have the facts to pass on. What I passed on is my opinion based on facts garnered from working here for many years and actual experience with the things I'm talking about.

I'll be leaving this thread now, as I won't get into an argument regarding opinions.

[RainDodger]

Anytime. Never know what you'll get with Google.... now if it was Bing, we KNOW it would be accurate!

All in fun.

[Alien]

I am running Vista Ultimate 64 bit on a quad core.

I fought switching to Vista for a long time because of everything I have read! I have been using Vista for over a year now (I use Media center) and have had no problems. I watch and record live TV, Have a large DVD collection on my Hard drive. Photo edit and recode video.

One of the reasons I decided to move to Vista was support for XP and programs for XP are not going to be supported indefinately. Vista support should be here for a while.

[jmanjeff]

go for one with windows 7 Ultimate that way if you have any apps or say a scanner that only runs in XP  you will be able to Windows XP Mode it is in beta now but i have not had any problems with it

[murf]

go for one with windows 7 Ultimate that way if you have any apps or say a scanner that only runs in XP  you will be able to Windows XP Mode it is in beta now but i have not had any problems with it

True, jmanjeff IF your processor supports virtualization.  Many do not.  

See THIS. http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/05/r2e-microsoft-intel-goof-up-windows-7s-xp-mode.ars

[jmanjeff]

My processor dos not support virtualization and it still works

go for one with windows 7 Ultimate that way if you have any apps or say a scanner that only runs in XP  you will be able to Windows XP Mode it is in beta now but i have not had any problems with it

True, jmanjeff IF your processor supports virtualization.  Many do not.  

See THIS. http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/05/r2e-microsoft-intel-goof-up-windows-7s-xp-mode.ars

[murf]

Interesting.  Which processor are you running?  I don't doubt you or say you're wrong, just curious.

[Ardy]

I don't know about all the stuff you guys are talking about but FreeCell on Vista sucks. I found a way to program the old FreeCell back in. So I'm happy with Vista now. 

[jmanjeff]

Interesting.  Which processor are you running?  I don't doubt you or say you're wrong, just curious.

AMD Athlon 64 X2  5600  It dos support AMD-V the amd web site just don't show that it has it

[HogBob]

I want to thank everybody for their replies and help. I didn't see many of them until this morning since I couldn't get the friggin' computer to open Internet Explorer or my Comcast Email ( still can't get Outlook Express which I prefer). I tried C Cleaner at suggestion of guy at BestBuy and it sold me a program called RegCure for $49.00 which I tried to use. I now have a window that I can't close called Microsoft .Net Framework telling me about "an unhandled exception has occurred". It wont cancel and won't close. I rightclicked and 'moved' it to the far right of the screen so I could view most of my screen. Now It won't move back. I also get a window marked "Windows Install" that disappears when I click on the screen but also wont respond to 'cancel'. For some reason, I can now open Explorer and Comcast Email but the 'Microsoft Net Framework' window wont close. From reading some of your replies, it's evident that you are experts. I don't even understand the terminology used!! Anyway, I bought a new HP desktop package at Sam's Club yesterday. a Pavilion Slimline model s3707c-b. It has the Vista program which I see many of you don't like, but I bought it before I could open HTT and read your replies. Hopefully, it will work OK for me. HTT is a great forum and I really appreciate all the help I've gotten from you all. My next task will be getting to keep my HogBob name on HTT when I use the new computer. Bob

[elamey]

Good stuff here jmanjeff. What processor are you running? It is possible that the processor you purchased downloaded an updated driver at some point which may emulate the BT virtualization.
The other possibility is that XP mode in Win7 beta is using/running VMware somehow. They may have decided to change the VT only stance based on the number of processors that won't run it, and re-incorporated hypervisor type eumlation.

I gotta say that I am a Win7 skeptic BUT I am excited about the possibilities if they get it right. IF XP mode works well, they will soon make the os itself vitual. Imagine booting up your pc to a virtual operating system. So the base OS boots up to run the hardware, but the session you use is virtual...in a secure container within th os. You click on an e-mail with a virus or other nasty program. The only thing that gets infected is your virutal session, not the base os itself. You terminate the virtual session or simply re-boot and that virtual session is wiped out leaving your base os in tact.

HUGE HUGE help for security (though hackers WILL find a way) and support. PC manufacturers will rush this out because the service call will be "shut up and re-boot" :-) Anything you screw up in the virutal machine will be washed away. The only real problems left will be hardware

[02roadcling]

Your name HogBob has nuttin 2 do wit ur pc. u can sign in on any pc anywhere

[elamey]

Bob, vista will be fine. I'm one who would have chose differently but it will be fine.

I wanted to chime in one last time on your  "unhandled exception error"
If you dont' have one, go get a USB flash drive and copy anything important from your old pc to the new one. If you have valuable information, like taxes or pictures (or the most important Dyno sheets :-) and you dont' know how to do it, pay some geeky kid to do it for you.

Do this before you try any other fixes. The next "fix" may break the PC and make it more expensive to recover your data. RegCleaner should have backed up your previous registry settings before making changes, you might explore how to restore those. But get your stuff off that old machine asap.

.Net unhandled exception errors are bad. For lack of a better term, .Net is a OS software "layer" or "fabric" that just about any MS application needs to run. It provides for commuication to hardware and other software between the user software layer and the hardware layer. So an error there is an issue. You may be able to fix it by re-service packing your os or  re-installing .Net or re-storing your registry, but don't do any of that until you get your important data backed up and on another machine.

Finally, any of you all who are thinking about buying sofware like this. Search as much as you can, in Bobx case, CCleaner will do the same thing as RegCleaner...for free. I use CCleaner all the time and have had no issues. Free is good. Check out Gimp BTW it's a free photoshop with about 90% of the real photoshops functionality.