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New woods bushing lifters

Started by itsafatboy, May 09, 2023, 10:37:39 PM

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0 Members and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.

Ohio HD

The clips only job is to hold the lifter together when it's out of the motor. When the lifter is installed and adjusted, the cup is nowhere near the clip. Usually about 0.100" to 0.140" away from the clip.

OldBogie

September 10, 2023, 09:21:32 PM #26 Last Edit: September 10, 2023, 09:28:31 PM by OldBogie
The Circlip is not the right thing, you want an internal TruArc see link.

https://saeproducts.com/retaining-rings.html

Upon install you need to note that the TruArc has one side with a rounded edge and the opposite has a sharp edge. These are always installed into the lifters retaining ring groove with the sharp edge side facing up. This reduces the chance of the TruArc being forced out by slippage of the round edge against the retainer groove.

This is something used when the lifter is adjusted with the preload position placing the cup near or at the top of its travel. It's an old hotrodder trick to remove the chance of pumping up the lifter then having to wait for it to bleed down before the engine catches again.  For everyday operation the plunger and cup body if adjusted to factory specs shouldn't be pushing against the retainer. But if you wind it out to where you pump-up the lifters the TruArc is damn good insurance.

Bogie

Ohio HD

September 10, 2023, 09:43:02 PM #27 Last Edit: September 10, 2023, 10:18:11 PM by Ohio HD
Wood Lifters use a wire retaining clip. The same clip that all Harley Davidson OEM lifters for Twin Cam and M8 motors use. Some aftermarket lifter manufacturers use an internal snap ring, some use the wire retainer. One is no better than the other as we already know they are under no tension once the lifter is installed and adjusted.

You can use which ever method floats your boat, but one is as good as the other.

I have never had a retainer come out of the lifter body.



SP33DY

Wire style clips are used in a radiused groove. Stamped clips (Truarc) and spirolock clips are used in a square cut groove.

Ohio HD

I didn't know that. But it does make sense.

98fxstc

If you check wfolarry's lifter threads, you will see that he makes mention of some S&S pushrods making contact with the circlips and he replaces those with the wire clips.

Ohio HD

So curiosity got the best of me, this is a 18538-99C lifter, this lifter uses the wire retainer. The groove in this lifter looks to be a square cut. I tried to use the light in my scope to get a better image, but the internals of the lifter just reflected light all over the place.



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kd

September 11, 2023, 09:13:11 PM #32 Last Edit: September 12, 2023, 03:25:36 AM by kd
Quote from: 98fxstc on September 11, 2023, 02:36:23 PMIf you check wfolarry's lifter threads, you will see that he makes mention of some S&S pushrods making contact with the circlips and he replaces those with the wire clips.

Smith Brothers came out with a new stiff wall tapered adjustable non quick change pushrod around 2013-14 that did it on high lift cams.  When I got mine only a few sets had been released. This was on S&S premiums with wire clips.  Another member here and I brought it up with them (there's a thread here about it).  They redesigned the lower adjuster ball profile, replaced ours immediately 👍 and as I understand they reconfigured all sets from there forward with the new profile.
KD

FSG

Quote from: Ohio HD on September 11, 2023, 06:15:51 PMThe groove in this lifter looks to be a square cut.

below is the -99C Lifter I had sectioned, looks square cut to me  :SM:





wfolarry

It's the same groove whether it's wire or clip.
There's even a pressed in retainer in some racing lifters. I don't like them because it's brutal taking them apart.

wfolarry

Quote from: SP33DY on September 11, 2023, 08:07:15 AMWire style clips are used in a radiused groove. Stamped clips (Truarc) and spirolock clips are used in a square cut groove.
That's true on pistons. If you don't know which retainer to use check the groove or the shape of the end of the wrist pin.

itsafatboy

Well got platinum lifters in ,

 i just had a nagging gut feeling on the cup design so i took the cups and disks from the woods lifters i had and put them into the platinum lifters , oil comes out just fine , all Measurment's were exactly same , made from same place just did not like having a tiny hole barely visible hole being the meter and feed to top end , it just didnt sit well ,  i have heard stories of piston jets clogging or push rods and both have large holes than this cup so i started all sounds great went .140 preload so after engine warm be sitting at .100 or so but so far so good. i know im probably wrong but the meter disk has worked for long time. 

Ohio HD

Did you miss what Larry said about why the hole is so small, and what will most likely happen?

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,120724.msg1446984.html#msg1446984

I for one wouldn't spend money on a premium product and then change it based on a hunch. I know that Jamie Long has many sets of these Platinum lifters in the field right now.


itsafatboy

here is a pic of the one i took out and the one i put in,  sorry but i couldnt get better pic the hole is small

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itsafatboy

Quote from: Ohio HD on September 17, 2023, 03:38:12 PMDid you miss what Larry said about why the hole is so small, and what will most likely happen?

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,120724.msg1446984.html#msg1446984

I for one wouldn't spend money on a premium product and then change it based on a hunch. I know that Jamie Long has many sets of these Platinum lifters in the field right now.



the premium part to me is the roller with no needle bearing otherwise they look exactly like the previous woods lifter , ya i know why hole is small to meter oil just dont like it just my opinion and im ok with the older cup version,  ive had issues trying new stuff like the SHUBECK ROLLER-X lifters back in the day full floating but made out of aluminum coated, didnt workout to weel fo a few peoplw 

Ohio HD

The point is you may have changed the metered amount of oil expulsion and as well then changed the way the lifter body stays pressurized. I suspect they made a change for a reason. They already had the older style oil metering valve and cup to use. 

Jamie Long

Quote from: itsafatboy on September 17, 2023, 03:32:21 PMWell got platinum lifters in ,

 i just had a nagging gut feeling on the cup design so i took the cups and disks from the woods lifters i had and put them into the platinum lifters , oil comes out just fine , all Measurment's were exactly same , made from same place just did not like having a tiny hole barely visible hole being the meter and feed to top end , it just didnt sit well ,  i have heard stories of piston jets clogging or push rods and both have large holes than this cup so i started all sounds great went .140 preload so after engine warm be sitting at .100 or so but so far so good. i know im probably wrong but the meter disk has worked for long time. 

I would not at all recommend swapping components from earlier lifters, the Platinum solid bushing lifters were designed to meter and oil a specific way. Zero reason to do this. 

Hossamania

I'm not sure why you'd want to use them if you don't trust them as built, and why you trust them with your untested mod.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take everything you have.

itsafatboy

September 18, 2023, 06:28:56 PM #43 Last Edit: September 18, 2023, 07:23:25 PM by itsafatboy
OK i am going to put the cups back ,

itsafatboy

How is the bushing getting oil on these lifters ,  are there the 2 small holes on the lifter body , like the alpha, and like the ones layy sells   

Ohio HD

Bob Wood shows you in his advertisement.



turboprop

No comments on the lifters but kudos to Bobby and Larry for being upfront about their source. We have all seen countless shops and reseller call things 'Their Lifters' or their pistons, pushrods, cams, etc, when the only thing that is 'Theirs' is the sticker and card in the box. <rolls eyes>

This looks like a good product and I am anxiously looking forward to reading countless new threads about them.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

itsafatboy

well the more i looked i just couldn't ,so my choice, i have oil to top end and head temps were great on 80 mile drive yesterday and the lifters are quiet real quiet, so i will keep the cups from the alpha set, just dont like the small half a needle point hole , doesn't sit well, hope they last forever though   

Hilly13

Just because its said don't make it so

98fxstc