Evo build with 625 lift cams and 10.5-1 compression

[Adam76]

Hey folks,

I'm looking for a little more on my next Evo softail 80" build. Looking at the Tman 625 cams (41 intake close) they call for around 10 - 10.5 compression and .650 lift valve springs.

If I go with this cam, and I use 10.5 comp .020" over pistons and a .030" head gasket, the calculator puts me at 10.85 compression... I can easily get 10-1 with 10.1 pistons but I really want the most out of the cam if I'm going this far.

Would it be a bad move to use a .045 head gasket? Or should I still be aiming for .030" - .035 Squish with the >030" head gaskets?

Thanks in advance.

[kd]

Hey folks,

I'm looking for a little more on my next Evo softail 80" build. Looking at the Tman 625 cams (41 intake close) they call for around 10 - 10.5 compression and .650 lift valve springs.

If I go with this cam, and I use 10.5 comp .020" over pistons and a .030" head gasket, the calculator puts me at 10.85 compression... I can easily get 10-1 with 10.1 pistons but I really want the most out of the cam if I'm going this far.

Would it be a bad move to use a .045 head gasket? Or should I still be aiming for .030" - .035 Squish with the >030" head gaskets?

Thanks in advance.

The .030 quench is what helps control the combustion as you get higher in compression.  I'd be inclined to keep it that way.  I may call TMan and ask him if he sees any problem running a tic more squeeze than he recommends.  I expect his response will depend upon what tuner device you use and if the dyno operator is capable of tuning a high compression engine.  You may have a little extra heat in the summer hot weather depending on where you are.

[Adam76]

Thanks kd,

[Ohio HD]

One thing you need to have and may already know, is manual compression releases if you start taking the compression up there.

[Adam76]

Thanks Ohio, yes I have comp releases 

[Adam76]

The other option is running the Woods W6H at 11 compression.

[Adam76]

Another option is the Tman 590 and get it down to 10.56-1 comp with pistons down the hole .005" and .030" HG and 84cc heads (assuming they haven't been cut down already).

What do you guys think of these cam set ups?

Tman 590 at 10.56-1 comp (CCP 200) heads at 84cc
Woods W6H at 10.14 -1 comp (ccp 195) heads at 82cc
Tman 625 at 10.1 comp (ccp 194) with heads milled to 82cc
Vthunder 3030  10.56 comp 84cc heads (200ccp)


Thanks

[jsachs1]

Another option is the Tman 590 and get it down to 10.56-1 comp with pistons down the hole .005" and .030" HG and 84cc heads (assuming they haven't been cut down already).

What do you guys think of these cam set ups?

Tman 590 at 10.56-1 comp (CCP 200) heads at 84cc
Woods W6H at 10.14 -1 comp (ccp 195) heads at 82cc
Tman 625 at 10.1 comp (ccp 194) with heads milled to 82cc
Vthunder 3030  10.56 comp 84cc heads (200ccp)


Thanks

My favorite Evo cam was/is a Powerhouse VIPER. always made in the 90 hp. range in 80" Evo engines, with my heads. Still use them today.
John

[Adam76]

Thanks John, what compression do you set out up at?
Looks like it has a IVC of 50*
I'm looking for usable power from 2000 - 5000

Thanks

[Adam76]

Hey folks,

I'm looking for a little more on my next Evo softail 80" build. Looking at the Tman 625 cams (41 intake close) they call for around 10 - 10.5 compression and .650 lift valve springs.

If I go with this cam, and I use 10.5 comp .020" over pistons and a .030" head gasket, the calculator puts me at 10.85 compression... I can easily get 10-1 with 10.1 pistons but I really want the most out of the cam if I'm going this far.

Would it be a bad move to use a .045 head gasket? Or should I still be aiming for .030" - .035 Squish with the >030" head gaskets?

Thanks in advance.

The .030 quench is what helps control the combustion as you get higher in compression.  I'd be inclined to keep it that way.  I may call TMan and ask him if he sees any problem running a tic more squeeze than he recommends.  I expect his response will depend upon what tuner device you use and if the dyno operator is capable of tuning a high compression engine.  You may have a little extra heat in the summer hot weather depending on where you are.

Hey kd,
But a message from Tman about the 625 cam, and he said the optimum / Max compression for the cam is 10.5...

Scott St Hillside also said the MAX compression for the W6H is no more that 10.5.

The problem I'm having is -- how do I get to 10.5 compression???

The 10-1 pistons don't give me enough compression -- and the 10.5 pistons give me too much compression!!!

Is there a 10.25-1 evo piston? That would be helpful.

Thanks for your advice

[kd]

Hey folks,

I'm looking for a little more on my next Evo softail 80" build. Looking at the Tman 625 cams (41 intake close) they call for around 10 - 10.5 compression and .650 lift valve springs.

If I go with this cam, and I use 10.5 comp .020" over pistons and a .030" head gasket, the calculator puts me at 10.85 compression... I can easily get 10-1 with 10.1 pistons but I really want the most out of the cam if I'm going this far.

Would it be a bad move to use a .045 head gasket? Or should I still be aiming for .030" - .035 Squish with the >030" head gaskets?

Thanks in advance.

The .030 quench is what helps control the combustion as you get higher in compression.  I'd be inclined to keep it that way.  I may call TMan and ask him if he sees any problem running a tic more squeeze than he recommends.  I expect his response will depend upon what tuner device you use and if the dyno operator is capable of tuning a high compression engine.  You may have a little extra heat in the summer hot weather depending on where you are.

Hey kd,
But a message from Tman about the 625 cam, and he said the optimum / Max compression for the cam is 10.5...

Scott St Hillside also said the MAX compression for the W6H is no more that 10.5.

The problem I'm having is -- how do I get to 10.5 compression???

The 10-1 pistons don't give me enough compression -- and the 10.5 pistons give me too much compression!!!

Is there a 10.25-1 evo piston? That would be helpful.

Thanks for your advice

It sounds like you don't have the pistons yet.  I don't know if anyone sells off the shelf 10.25:1 evo pistons (especially in +.020).  You could however go with the 10.5 and have them machined to make them work.  Also, if your upsizing valves and opening up the valve pockets those added CC's removed also will count.  I suppose this also depends on who you have available to do the work.

[Adam76]

Hey folks,

I'm looking for a little more on my next Evo softail 80" build. Looking at the Tman 625 cams (41 intake close) they call for around 10 - 10.5 compression and .650 lift valve springs.

If I go with this cam, and I use 10.5 comp .020" over pistons and a .030" head gasket, the calculator puts me at 10.85 compression... I can easily get 10-1 with 10.1 pistons but I really want the most out of the cam if I'm going this far.

Would it be a bad move to use a .045 head gasket? Or should I still be aiming for .030" - .035 Squish with the >030" head gaskets?

Thanks in advance.

The .030 quench is what helps control the combustion as you get higher in compression.  I'd be inclined to keep it that way.  I may call TMan and ask him if he sees any problem running a tic more squeeze than he recommends.  I expect his response will depend upon what tuner device you use and if the dyno operator is capable of tuning a high compression engine.  You may have a little extra heat in the summer hot weather depending on where you are.

Hey kd,
But a message from Tman about the 625 cam, and he said the optimum / Max compression for the cam is 10.5...

Scott St Hillside also said the MAX compression for the W6H is no more that 10.5.

The problem I'm having is -- how do I get to 10.5 compression???

The 10-1 pistons don't give me enough compression -- and the 10.5 pistons give me too much compression!!!

Is there a 10.25-1 evo piston? That would be helpful.

Thanks for your advice

It sounds like you don't have the pistons yet.  I don't know if anyone sells off the shelf 10.25:1 evo pistons (especially in +.020).  You could however go with the 10.5 and have them machined to make them work.  Also, if your upsizing valves and opening up the valve pockets those added CC's removed also will count.  I suppose this also depends on who you have available to do the work.

Thanks kd,I really want to keep the build as simple as possible.

Pistons
Cam
Valve springs

[turboprop]

Thanks John, what compression do you set out up at?
Looks like it has a IVC of 50*
I'm looking for usable power from 2000 - 5000

Thanks

The Wood W6HF is closer in spec to the the T-Man 625. Very different cam than the W6H you refer to in this thread.

Someone mentioned something about which tuner was used. Is this an Evo with a carb?

[kd]

Hey folks,

I'm looking for a little more on my next Evo softail 80" build. Looking at the Tman 625 cams (41 intake close) they call for around 10 - 10.5 compression and .650 lift valve springs.

If I go with this cam, and I use 10.5 comp .020" over pistons and a .030" head gasket, the calculator puts me at 10.85 compression... I can easily get 10-1 with 10.1 pistons but I really want the most out of the cam if I'm going this far.

Would it be a bad move to use a .045 head gasket? Or should I still be aiming for .030" - .035 Squish with the >030" head gaskets?

Thanks in advance.

The .030 quench is what helps control the combustion as you get higher in compression.  I'd be inclined to keep it that way.  I may call TMan and ask him if he sees any problem running a tic more squeeze than he recommends.  I expect his response will depend upon what tuner device you use and if the dyno operator is capable of tuning a high compression engine.  You may have a little extra heat in the summer hot weather depending on where you are.

Hey kd,
But a message from Tman about the 625 cam, and he said the optimum / Max compression for the cam is 10.5...

Scott St Hillside also said the MAX compression for the W6H is no more that 10.5.

The problem I'm having is -- how do I get to 10.5 compression???

The 10-1 pistons don't give me enough compression -- and the 10.5 pistons give me too much compression!!!

Is there a 10.25-1 evo piston? That would be helpful.

Thanks for your advice

It sounds like you don't have the pistons yet.  I don't know if anyone sells off the shelf 10.25:1 evo pistons (especially in +.020).  You could however go with the 10.5 and have them machined to make them work.  Also, if your upsizing valves and opening up the valve pockets those added CC's removed also will count.  I suppose this also depends on who you have available to do the work.

Thanks kd,I really want to keep the build as simple as possible.

Pistons
Cam
Valve springs

You also have the option of cylinder base gasket dimension change.  Thicker will lower your compression and increase the quench (squish).  If you have been following Ohio's Stormbreaker build on Twin Cam you will see he is doing just that.  Try adding an increment of .010 to your head gasket dimension in the calculator you are using and it will simulate an increase in base gasket thickness.  If you are close now, it may be all you need to get there.

[Adam76]

The Wood W6HF is closer in spec to the the T-Man 625. Very different cam than the W6H you refer to in this thread.

Someone mentioned something about which tuner was used. Is this an Evo with a carb?

Thanks turboprop,
I haven't seen the W6F cam on the Woods website. The only one I see is the W7, which could work. But I don't want it to be a dog under 3000rpm.

And yes, it is carby. So tuning is a little less precise I guess.

Do you have experience with the W7 cam? This might be a good option with 10.7 compression.

[Adam76]

My favorite Evo cam was/is a Powerhouse VIPER. always made in the 90 hp. range in 80" Evo engines, with my heads. Still use them today.
John

Hey John, looking into the Viper cams, which one exactly are you referring to? The 560V ?

Looks like a good candidate for 10.7 compression.

What are they like below 3000rpm in an 80" ?

Thanks

[jsachs1]

Adam,
560V. I use it with Wiseco 10.00:1, 12.9 cc dome pistons. The rest is in the heads.
John

[Adam76]

Thanks John.
Sounds like a good combo. But with 10-1 compression pistons, I only get 10-1 compression and a low dynamic compression...
I thought the cam with an IVC of 50* would need at least 10.5  -  10.8 compression with the 10.5 comp pistons?

Trust your advice, just confused.
Also do I need .600  or  .650 lift valve springs?
Cheers

[Adam76]

Power House
Grind Viper 560V.
By: ANDREWS PRODUCTS INC

"The best cam for higher compression 80 Cl 9:1/11:1 compression".

Stock or ported heads.  Very strong mid range with the ability to pull very hard up to about 6500 RPM depending on cylinder head air flow.

[jsachs1]

Thanks John.
Sounds like a good combo. But with 10-1 compression pistons, I only get 10-1 compression and a low dynamic compression...
I thought the cam with an IVC of 50* would need at least 10.5  -  10.8 compression with the 10.5 comp pistons?

Trust your advice, just confused.
Also do I need .600  or  .650 lift valve springs?
Cheers

.600" lift springs is what you need to use. More compression? Mill the heads.
John

[Adam76]

Thanks John.
Sounds like a good combo. But with 10-1 compression pistons, I only get 10-1 compression and a low dynamic compression...
I thought the cam with an IVC of 50* would need at least 10.5  -  10.8 compression with the 10.5 comp pistons?

Trust your advice, just confused.
Also do I need .600  or  .650 lift valve springs?
Cheers

.600" lift springs is what you need to use. More compression? Mill the heads.
John

Thanks John.  I was going to set the heads at 83cc....

How low can I safely go with the heads?
 82cc / 81cc / 80cc ?

Thanks

[JSD]

Adam why not bath tub the heads 

[Adam76]

Adam why not bath tub the heads

That's not a bad idea. Not sure what it would cost? $1500 all up? pretty expensive I'd guess...
If I don't do that, I  could use 10-1 Wiseco pistons and bring the compression up by milling the heads.

BTW how low can you go with cc's of the heads before you start to run into possible piston to valve clearance?

Would 80cc be ok?

[jsachs1]

Adam,
Mill your stock heads. You can go in the 70's range, with NO interference, and those pistons.
John

[kd]

    You may have to file your manifold slightly to get some clearance if you cut the heads at the upper limits.  That will become obvious when you start to assemble it.

[Adam76]

Adam,
Mill your stock heads. You can go in the 70's range, with NO interference, and those pistons.
John

Thanks, really appreciate your input. 

[Adam76]

   You may have to file your manifold slightly to get some clearance if you cut the heads at the upper limits.  That will become obvious when you start to assemble it.

Thanks kd, I hope that cutting them down to 80cc isn't considered the "upper limit" ?
I don't want to have to deal with manifold gasket leaks 

[kd]

   You may have to file your manifold slightly to get some clearance if you cut the heads at the upper limits.  That will become obvious when you start to assemble it.

Thanks kd, I hope that cutting them down to 80cc isn't considered the "upper limit" ?
I don't want to have to deal with manifold gasket leaks 

I have 2 Evo's with SE heads.  IIRC (it's been a while) one of the major differences to the stock heads is they are cut .060.  Having an OEM manifold fit tight after decking them is not unusual. When they are cut they settle lower into the V between the cylinders and that's what closes the gap.

[turboprop]

The Wood W6HF is closer in spec to the the T-Man 625. Very different cam than the W6H you refer to in this thread.

Someone mentioned something about which tuner was used. Is this an Evo with a carb?

Thanks turboprop,
I haven't seen the W6F cam on the Woods website. The only one I see is the W7, which could work. But I don't want it to be a dog under 3000rpm.

And yes, it is carby. So tuning is a little less precise I guess.

Do you have experience with the W7 cam? This might be a good option with 10.7 compression.

Not sure where you are getting the W6F from, I certainly didnt mention it.

I mentioned the Wood W6HF, it can be seen in the designer cam section on the Wood website.

I usually do not do this, but here is a link to it on the Wood Cam website.

Wood W6HF Designer Cam Page

[Adam76]

The Wood W6HF is closer in spec to the the T-Man 625. Very different cam than the W6H you refer to in this thread.

Someone mentioned something about which tuner was used. Is this an Evo with a carb?

Thanks turboprop,
I haven't seen the W6F cam on the Woods website. The only one I see is the W7, which could work. But I don't want it to be a dog under 3000rpm.

And yes, it is carby. So tuning is a little less precise I guess.

Do you have experience with the W7 cam? This might be a good option with 10.7 compression.

Not sure where you are getting the W6F from, I certainly didnt mention it.

I mentioned the Wood W6HF, it can be seen in the designer cam section on the Wood website.

I usually do not do this, but here is a link to it on the Wood Cam website.

Wood W6HF Designer Cam Page

Yes, sorry that was a typo 
W6H was the cam I was referring to.
Cheers

[jsachs1]

   You may have to file your manifold slightly to get some clearance if you cut the heads at the upper limits.  That will become obvious when you start to assemble it.

Thanks kd, I hope that cutting them down to 80cc isn't considered the "upper limit" ?
I don't want to have to deal with manifold gasket leaks 

To get to 80 cc on stock, un-milled EVO heads, isn't even close, for a manifold fitment problem. Even if you use .030" head gaskets.
John

[Adam76]

Thanks John.
Sounds like a plan. 

[jsachs1]

April, 8 sets of Evo heads came in for mods from 2 different shops. Since there seems to be some uncertainty/confusion about what can be milled off the heads, without effecting other components, I'll try to list my experience with this.
This will pertain to H.D. STANDARD 1340 Factory cylinder heads that are stock. NOT Sceamin Eagle, after-market, etc.
I find that up to, and including .060" is the limit that can be milled, using .030" head gaskets, and .020" base gaskets, without altering the intake port pad area. Like all things modified, when using domed pistons, dome area to head needs to be checked. FWIW, I've never had to alter domes, with the pistons I use, because I've never been near the .060" limit.
I also find that the factory STANDARD Twin Cam engines, and some Twin Cam CVO engines are OK with the above mods. (Disregard the base gasket, as Twin Cams use O-ring seals). John

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[aswracing]

Off-the-shelf Evo Big Twin pistons ...

[Adam76]

Off-the-shelf Evo Big Twin pistons ...

Thanks, I have all the piston catalogues as well.

I'm going with a Wiseco 10-1 with the heads shaved to get me to 10.3 which is exactly what I need.

[cheech]

Wiseco still lists a 11:1 piston also for Evo FWIW.

[jsachs1]

Wiseco still lists a 11:1 piston also for Evo FWIW.

Too much dome.
John

[SP33DY]

I don't know if Axtell angle dome pistons are still available. Someone told me that Ron retired. When I was doing a lot of Evo's, that was my favorite piston. Just cut the head to match, and set the squish. Ported heads and HQ-0023 cam was a good combination with the Axtell pistons.

[jsachs1]

I don't know if Axtell angle dome pistons are still available. Someone told me that Ron retired. When I was doing a lot of Evo's, that was my favorite piston. Just cut the head to match, and set the squish. Ported heads and HQ-0023 cam was a good combination with the Axtell pistons.

Hard to beat the 0023 cams on an Andrews billet back in the day.
John

[JSD]

John i appreciate your Advice . In oz we bath tubed heads . Hd copied for TC . They always behind the thinking performance man