103 vs 107 build advice needed

[Adam76]

Thanks Ohio,

If he stays at 103 but could afford mild headwork, what cams would you suggest other than the 48's ?
Cheers

As he stated the true duals with fishtails can cause havoc with the tune. But if that's what the guy wants, he may not see the full potential of what ever is used. The truth shows up in the tuning.

Agreed. I think I might just suggest Andrews 48 cams only at this stage and see how he likes it.

Thanks guys

[IronButt70]

Thanks Ohio,

If he stays at 103 but could afford mild headwork, what cams would you suggest other than the 48's ?
Cheers

As he stated the true duals with fishtails can cause havoc with the tune. But if that's what the guy wants, he may not see the full potential of what ever is used. The truth shows up in the tuning.

Agreed. I think I might just suggest Andrews 48 cams only at this stage and see how he likes it.

Thanks guys

I have a set of TTS100 cams that I pulled from my 103 softail that your friend can try if he'd like. Just pay for shipping. It's a little known cam but work very well in a 103. They have about 50k miles on them but the lobes look very good with no pitting or scratches. Let me know.

[hrdtail78]

I would use the 555tq cam from Tman.  Proven low end tq provider.  A cam closing any sooner is not going to produce any noticeable more tq with exhaust choice.  Slightly decking heads and thinner HG and you can get the CCP of a 20 something close, but why?  Overlap will allow it to carry out further as well.  Once again how far it carries out is gonna be based on exhaust.

Goal would be match cam with my assumed power curve of pipe and hope the cam puts up a good fight to broaden it as much as possible.

Stock cable driven TB?

[Adam76]

I would use the 555tq cam from Tman.  Proven low end tq provider.  A cam closing any sooner is not going to produce any noticeable more tq with exhaust choice.  Slightly decking heads and thinner HG and you can get the CCP of a 20 something close, but why?  Overlap will allow it to carry out further as well.  Once again how far it carries out is gonna be based on exhaust.

Goal would be match cam with my assumed power curve of pipe and hope the cam puts up a good fight to broaden it as much as possible.

Stock cable driven TB?

Thanks Hrdtail, that's good advice - matching the cams to the exhaust is something I'm trying to do.

I think 2016 came out with TBW as far as I know.
Cheers

[hrdtail78]

Off the top of my head.  I believe it does have the 50mm TBW.

[Adam76]

Off the top of my head.  I believe it does have the 50mm TBW.

 

[Adam76]

If you're just looking to keep it simple for now, I agree with keeping it a 103". As well if the heads aren't in the budget, stick an Andrews 48 in there. It won't be a power house, but it'll move pretty good.

Would mild headwork really improve this result with the 48s ??  Or if headwork is in the budget, should we be looking at a different cam?

The 2 charts below has 48s with mild headwork, and the other one stock 103" with a good tune.... There's really not that much difference between the two, I'm wondering if just cams is really worth it??

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,103352.0.html

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?msg=1283645

[FXDBI]

If you're just looking to keep it simple for now, I agree with keeping it a 103". As well if the heads aren't in the budget, stick an Andrews 48 in there. It won't be a power house, but it'll move pretty good.

Would mild headwork really improve this result with the 48s ??  Or if headwork is in the budget, should we be looking at a different cam?

The thread below has 48s with mild headwork, and doesn't look that much better that some of the charts in the dyno section with just 48s, stock heads and a good tune?

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,103352.0.html

Well mild head work opens a lot of doors, H-D 110 drop on kit just the jugs and pistons, heads cleaned up set to 83cc with 585 easy starts is pretty good bang for your buck. Whats the plan on tune?  Bob

[Adam76]

If you're just looking to keep it simple for now, I agree with keeping it a 103". As well if the heads aren't in the budget, stick an Andrews 48 in there. It won't be a power house, but it'll move pretty good.

Would mild headwork really improve this result with the 48s ??  Or if headwork is in the budget, should we be looking at a different cam?

The thread below has 48s with mild headwork, and doesn't look that much better that some of the charts in the dyno section with just 48s, stock heads and a good tune?

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,103352.0.html

Well mild head work opens a lot of doors, H-D 110 drop on kit just the jugs and pistons, heads cleaned up set to 83cc with 585 easy starts is pretty good bang for your buck. Whats the plan on tune?  Bob

Hi Bob, no budget for the 110"and 585 plus headwork... Tune is Maximus Direct Link.

I'm just wondering what the best bang for the buck is, because it seems the TC 103"HO motors respond so well to just a stage 1 and a good tune..... Makes me think twice about adding cams and even mild headwork, if you know what I'm saying.

Cheers

[Hilly13]

Thing to remember Adam is you don't ride that dyno WOT graph, I know you know that, porting for a target is always worth it but given he is set on them pipes go with what Jason says, he has tuned more of them than we have ever ridden combined.

Added, I've tuned a few stock cam bikes for mates that were hell bent on cams until they rode it tuned, tuned a few cam only ones as well, big smiles all round, are you road tuning it or got a dyno man on hand?

[Adam76]

Thing to remember Adam is you don't ride that dyno WOT graph, I know you know that, porting for a target is always worth it but given he is set on them pipes go with what Jason says, he has tuned more of them than we have ever ridden combined.

Added, I've tuned a few stock cam bikes for mates that were hell bent on cams until they rode it tuned, tuned a few cam only ones as well, big smiles all round, are you road tuning it or got a dyno man on hand?

I lost the great tuner in my city, but yes I will get it tuned by a pro on the dyno.

I think I know what you're saying. Just a simple cam and tune, or go all out with a big bore and heads.

I think he'll be happy with just cams. Remind me again, what Jason suggest??
Cheers

[Hilly13]

Post 27 is my referral, the HO cam tuned is decent but if you have to pay for a tune chucking the best fit cam in first makes sense to me.

[Hossamania]

#1: Set the budget. This will determine the next steps.

Best bang for the buck is a moving target. First, the buck to be spent has to be determined.

[Adam76]

Post 27 is my referral, the HO cam tuned is decent but if you have to pay for a tune chucking the best fit cam in first makes sense to me.

That's good advice. And you agree that the Tman TQ555 cams are the best fit?
Cheers

[Adam76]

#1: Set the budget. This will determine the next steps.

Best bang for the buck is a moving target. First, the buck to be spent has to be determined.

Thanks Hoss. There was no real budget set, it was more a case of stay at 103" and keep it simple or do a 107" and for a whole bunch of extra money, how much more will he actually gain?  Especially given the poor exhaust choice.

Thanks. 

[Hossamania]

My budget was set by the statement: I know I can't beat everybody, but I have to beat my friends.

The shop said, "we have a package for that."
They did.

Maybe more than setting the budget, setting the goal of performance wanted is key.

[Adam76]

My budget was set by the statement: I know I can't beat everybody, but I have to beat my friends.

The shop said, "we have a package for that."
They did.

Maybe more than setting the budget, setting the goal of performance wanted is key.

Yeah, I see your point. Maybe I've been looking at it back to front.

My statement would be: "I want the bike to run significantly better than stock stage 1 to make the effort and $$$ worthwhile"....

If that means cams only, great.
If it means cams and mild headwork, great.
If it means the only way is to go to a well designed 107" package, then I will understand the choices properly.

Thanks.

[Hossamania]

With that in mind, and trying to keep the budget in mind, I would go with head work and cams to match. Choose cams to match the riding style, not chasing Dyno numbers. Going with a bigger bore does not add a lot of money to the build, but it does cause budget creep, and potential issues if not done properly. You've been down this road and understand budget creep.
Good luck, let us know how it works out.

[Hilly13]

Post 27 is my referral, the HO cam tuned is decent but if you have to pay for a tune chucking the best fit cam in first makes sense to me.

That's good advice. And you agree that the Tman TQ555 cams are the best fit?
Cheers

I don't know if they are the best fit for your mate's expectations but the reasons he mentioned that cam are sound, you could run a few cams in there, all would be an improvement if tuned right, what Hoss said above is logical as well but exhaust choice has to be factored in, if he wants to keep it how it is I personally wouldn't spend on more than a cam and tune.

[Adam76]

Post 27 is my referral, the HO cam tuned is decent but if you have to pay for a tune chucking the best fit cam in first makes sense to me.

That's good advice. And you agree that the Tman TQ555 cams are the best fit?
Cheers

I don't know if they are the best fit for your mate's expectations but the reasons he mentioned that cam are sound, you could run a few cams in there, all would be an improvement if tuned right, what Hoss said above is logical as well but exhaust choice has to be factored in, if he wants to keep it how it is I personally wouldn't spend on more than a cam and tune.

Thanks, makes good sense.

[Adam76]

With that exhaust,it would be a good idea to lower overall gearing.

I'm looking at the Andrews 30T and the 31T  trans pulley.... what would you recommending for my application?

Thanks, I have never done any changes to gearing before, so this is new territory for me. 

[Hilly13]

30-70 makes it a different animal 😁

[Adam76]

30-70 makes it a different animal 😁

Thanks Hilly.

What is the 70 part, and does it require a belt change?

Can you just change the trans pulley only? Or do you have to do both?

Cheers
Cheers

[Adam76]

I would recommend 103 and head work.  Valve job, pocket porting and set the CC to what you want based on cam  choice.

Even if he isn't trying to bang of the rev limiter.  The worked heads will bring in lower RPM tq as well.

Thanks.

This is the plan I will suggest.
Since we will probably pull the heads anyway, we'll go with a valve job, cc'ing and pocket porting and a .030" HG to set compression.
I think your suggestion of the Tman 555TQ cams is probably what we'll go with as well.
possibly a gearing change with a 30T trans pully?
Then a good tune and he should be happy. 

Thanks

[Hilly13]

30-70 makes it a different animal 😁

Thanks Hilly.

What is the 70 part, and does it require a belt change?

Can you just change the trans pulley only? Or do you have to do both?

Cheers
Cheers

30 front 70 rear, you could do both or either only but both is better, if both I used my stock belt so assume it would be the same for other models, just one might require a different belt, not sure there.