2005 FLHRCI running rough

[RoadKingKohn]

I have a 2005 FLHRCI 95", 10 to 1 comp, HQ-0034-G cam, 78.000 miles

Bike has started running rough an it has put up the red key for codes.

The following have come up.

P     Pn  J141025-0   Can not find any info on what part that is.
S     61121 and 61122 then U1097     68922-00 security module?
SP    U1064                          67033-4A speedometer?

Is there just one of these causing the rough running? Or is it none of these?

Thank you for any help

[kd]

It may be none of those and they were set at a moment of extreme rough running or stalling.  It's possible it's the engine temp sensor in the cylinder head if (usually after warming up) it bucks, backfires and belches black smoke or maybe smells rich on occasion.  If the ETS senses overheating (even if in error as it begins to fail) it will ask the ECM to add fuel.

[fleetmechanic]

The ETS needing replacement is almost a routine maintenance item.

[RoadKingKohn]

Thank you Gentlemen. I did not even think of the ETS as it is idling perfectly. I will check it out.

[RoadKingKohn]

I have an update.

ETS was going all over the place in ohms after being set in boiling water and then as it cooled. Even at room temp it was bouncing all over.

Decided to check my coil while I was at it. It was only read 6,000 ohms at the wire side.

Then my front spark plug wire had 3 cuts into it with 2 of them getting to the core material.

New coil and plug wires installed.

Now I am just waiting for the ETS to come in and then I get to ride again 

[RoadKingKohn]

New coil, plug wires and ETS.

Still vibrating at 35mph in 3rd gear and 55mph in 5th gear. Don't have a tachometer.

I think I have some new codes. Will be checking them after lunch.

[RoadKingKohn]

New coil, plug wires and ETS.

Still vibrating at 35mph in 3rd gear and 55mph in 5th gear. Don't have a tachometer.

I think I have some new codes. Will be checking them after lunch.

The codes are as follows.

P     P0118
S     U1097
SP    U1064

Any ideas?

[Fugawee]

The DTC Codes You provided are as follows...

P0018=Engine Temperature Sensor High

U1097=Loss of Speedometer Data to ECM

U1064=Loss of TSM/FSM Serial Data to ECM

I would suggest trying to clear the Codes and do another onboard Diagnostic Test...then see what happens and take it from there.

[fbn ent]

The DTC Codes You provided are as follows...

P0018=Engine Temperature Sensor High

U1097=Loss of Speedometer Data to ECM

U1064=Loss of TSM/ESM Serial Data to ECM

I would suggest trying to clear the Codes and do another onboard Diagnostic Test...then see what happens and take it from there.

One of them suggests disconnecting power to reset.

[RoadKingKohn]

I did try clearing all of the codes but did not disconnect the power to everything. I did have the power disconnected when I put in the new coil, plug wires and ETS.

Another thing that happened today during the test ride. The cruise control would work and then not work. Would set and then turn off right away. Then it would work for about ten miles until a stop sign or light. Would push the resume button and it would sometimes reset but most times it would not. 

I put in a new cruise control and stop switch about a month ago. The ETS was just put in new on 09/13/2023 and was a Drag Specialties part along with the coil (V-Twin) and plug wires (Blue Streak 8mm). The Cruise and Stop switches are new Harley units.

I checked my transmission sensor for metal filings and there was nothing on it.

My next sensor to test is going to be the Crank. I don't have an electric manual and have not been able to find one to buy for a 2005 Touring model.

Does anybody know what the ohms should be for the Crank sensor?


Thank you

[RoadKingKohn]

Google will tell you what they are...

I had looked up the codes before starting to type the message.

The problem is finding the answer to the codes as to what the actual bad part is. This is why I have been looking for ohm reading for the sensors.

I am suspecting that one is acting up as it gets hot from the engine running. So if there is a range of ohm readings that could be found for the sensors I sure would like to find it.

[rigidthumper]

Crank position sensor should generate an AC signal, at least 5V @ cranking speed- good ones can generate a much larger signal- i have seen as much as 40VAC Peak to Peak @ 1000RPM with an oscilloscope.

[RoadKingKohn]

Crank position sensor should generate an AC signal, at least 5V @ cranking speed- good ones can generate a much larger signal- i have seen as much as 40VAC Peak to Peak @ 1000RPM with an oscilloscope.

Thank you

[Tacocaster]

It's always good to try things that don't cost anything as long as they make sense. In your case (from my personal experience) after reading about your Cruise Control issue on a Cable-equipped throttle/Idle bike, I found setting the Idle cable adjustment correctly is extremely important. Minor thing but if you don't do it right on a CC equipped ride, it will give you similar issues. No cost to verify if you own a volt/Ohm Meter.

[RoadKingKohn]

It's always good to try things that don't cost anything as long as they make sense. In your case (from my personal experience) after reading about your Cruise Control issue on a Cable-equipped throttle/Idle bike, I found setting the Idle cable adjustment correctly is extremely important. Minor thing but if you don't do it right on a CC equipped ride, it will give you similar issues. No cost to verify if you own a volt/Ohm Meter.

Thank you.

I had taken a measurement on the cable adjustment nuts and set them back to where they were before. I will double check that.

I do own a volt/Ohm meter. I have been using it a lot lately.

[Tacocaster]

You're welcome. In case you don't have an SM :

Using the Ohmmeter set at 200 range, meter clips (polarity unimportant) attached at the CC switch tangs of the Idle cable (front of the Tank at the frame's backbone) and Throttle cable already adjusted using the tab on the T-Body for WOT. While watching the Ohmmeter, rotate the Throttle grip clockwise to close the throttle completely (don't force it). The meter will ready infinity (open) as you lengthen the Idle Cable adjuster until you see a short circuit (small resistance value ~ 5 Ohms or less). Lock-down the Idle adjuster there. Additional step would be to cycle the CC to set cable lash using the Resume function.

Interesting to note, my issue didn't appear until many miles/days later.

[Tacocaster]

Oh, and the Crank Position Sensor should read between ~ 400-1600 Ohms.

[RoadKingKohn]

Oh, and the Crank Position Sensor should read between ~ 400-1600 Ohms.

The Crank Position Sensor reads 985 Ohms with and without steel near the end.  Should it change with steel near the end?

[Tacocaster]

Hmmm.......dunno. It's a Hall Effect device but I'm not sure if magnetism would cause a variation in metered value or not. Further, I always thought it was the "space" on the flywheel the CKP reacts to but others herein would know for certain.

As for your CKP, the value would tell me it's a good'n but again, let's wait for the forum to validate.

[RoadKingKohn]

Well the saga continues.

Keep in mind that before I took the sensor out the bike started.

Put the old Crank Position sensor in because of the Ohm reading at 985. Went to start it and nothing.

Looks like I am getting a new sensor tomorrow morning.

Oh and no codes showing.

 

[Tacocaster]

HUH?!?!

If the engine does not crank it has nothing to do with the CKP. If it does crank, watch the Tach needle while cranking to see if the needle bounces slightly. If yes, it's not your CKP. Learned that from a fellow HTT member (a good quick n' easy check!).

Let us know result, please.

[RoadKingKohn]

HUH?!?!

If the engine does not crank it has nothing to do with the CKP. If it does crank, watch the Tach needle while cranking to see if the needle bounces slightly. If yes, it's not your CKP. Learned that from a fellow HTT member (a good quick n' easy check!).

Let us know result, please.

Well, I have check all of the fuses and they are good.

Switched the relays around and still no start. I can hear the relay click when I hit the start button.

Before pulling and checking the CKP it started right up. After putting it back in I just get a relay click and nothing else

I am totally lost now.

[Hossamania]

Check battery voltage. And loose cables.

[Tacocaster]

Because you hear a relay click tells us you have the RUN/OFF in RUN position. Check voltage and cables like Hoss suggests and if both good, try 1 of the following:

1. Verify you are in NEUTRAL. With Ignition on, RUN/OFF Switch in RUN position, take a test lead and attach one end at the little white connector where the green wire terminates on the top of the starter. You can remove this green wire for this test. Place the other end of the test lead temporarily on the positive post of the battery. Starter should crank.

OR 2. Verify you are in NEUTRAL. Right side, immediately above transmission you should see a 5 sided cover right beside a round one. Remove the 3 screws from the 5-sided cover.

Ensure ignition is on, RUN/OFF switch is RUN then with a stout screwdriver or reasonable "poke-stick", push the solenoid (the now loose thing right in the center) in with confidence (effort) until it pushes no further or the starter cranks - one or t'other. Use some effort to push as it will slide easily then there will be resistance near the end of travel. 

Let us know your results.   

[RoadKingKohn]

Check battery voltage. And loose cables.

Battery was at 13.4 volts battery cables are tight and very new.

Checking all of the connections now.

Will try what you wrote Tacocaster. The starter is only about 1 year old an is an All Balls starter with 4 ga wire to it.

[rigidthumper]

Pop the CKP connector off, and check for a bent pin. They tend to bend quite easily, and lose contact...

[RoadKingKohn]

Found the problem 

The connection to the starter solenoid fell off. It must have gotten knocked off when I was checking the speed sensor for metal filings.

I have had it fall off a long time ago from vibration.

Next purchase is a replacement connector.

Thank you gentlemen.

[Tacocaster]

Thanks for the update! Good to hear you easily found it.

Back to your original problem.....because you have Cruise, did you measure (with Ohmmeter) to obtain the IDLE Cable adjustment?

[RoadKingKohn]

Thanks for the update! Good to hear you easily found it.

Back to your original problem.....because you have Cruise, did you measure (with Ohmmeter) to obtain the IDLE Cable adjustment?

Thanks for the reminder.

Now that I have it running I will have to do that on Friday.

[RoadKingKohn]

You're welcome. In case you don't have an SM :

Using the Ohmmeter set at 200 range, meter clips (polarity unimportant) attached at the CC switch tangs of the Idle cable (front of the Tank at the frame's backbone) and Throttle cable already adjusted using the tab on the T-Body for WOT. While watching the Ohmmeter, rotate the Throttle grip clockwise to close the throttle completely (don't force it). The meter will ready infinity (open) as you lengthen the Idle Cable adjuster until you see a short circuit (small resistance value ~ 5 Ohms or less). Lock-down the Idle adjuster there. Additional step would be to cycle the CC to set cable lash using the Resume function.

Interesting to note, my issue didn't appear until many miles/days later.

I am not getting any reading at all.

I do have a little bit of movement before there is any tension on the cable.

[Tacocaster]

Yes, you should have a very small (as in ~1/8") movement at IDLE position before cable slack is taken-up and the butterfly/cable should snap back to IDLE position when released from a WOT position.
 
What if you completely close the throttle until it comes to a complete stop with a very firm effort applied? If the adjuster is all the way out (lengthened) you should definitely have a reading.

If you can't get a reading there's a chance the Switch is bad and the IDLE cable would have to be replaced to retain the Throttle Closed Cruise Control Deactivation feature.

[RoadKingKohn]

Yes, you should have a very small (as in ~1/8") movement at IDLE position before cable slack is taken-up and the butterfly/cable should snap back to IDLE position when released from a WOT position.
 
What if you completely close the throttle until it comes to a complete stop with a very firm effort applied? If the adjuster is all the way out (lengthened) you should definitely have a reading.

If you can't get a reading there's a chance the Switch is bad and the IDLE cable would have to be replaced to retain the Throttle Closed Cruise Control Deactivation feature.

I did try a firm close and still had no readings.

I am going to have to put my wife to work to move the throttle while I place the clips on the tabs and watch the meter.

On another note. The 30 mile ride I took yesterday the cruise was working but the engine was still running rough.

Looking now a pulling out the injectors testing and cleaning them.

While I am at it I might just replace everything in the tank with Quantum Fuel Pump, filter, regulator and hoses. Everything but the filter is 18 years old.

P.S  I was able to get a 3 Ohms reading with throttle rolled forward.

[fbn ent]

Just for S**ts 'n giggles mix some Marvel Mystery Oil in with your gas. It helped my stumble issues and quieted a noisy pump on the wife's sporty.

So...you didn't put a new or known good crank sensor in? I would....

[RoadKingKohn]

Just for S**ts 'n giggles mix some Marvel Mystery Oil in with your gas. It helped my stumble issues and quieted a noisy pump on the wife's sporty.

So...you didn't put a new or known good crank sensor in? I would....

I did put in a new Drag Specialties CKP.

My bike does not stubble. I have excellent acceleration. It just shakes really bad to the point that it makes it hard to see down the road.

It has smoothed out some with all of the parts I have replaced but it still is not like it was in July 2023.

I have been using Bell Performance Ethanol Defense for 10 years and Mix-I-Go before that with every single tank of fuel. Bell's products have been around since 1909.

[Tacocaster]

Good to hear you got the 3 Ohms reading.

So, at no additional cost, albeit a bit of a hassle but now you know how to properly adjust your IDLE Cable w/ Cruise and eliminated a throttle-related possibility.

Excellent acceleration......but shakes......hmmmmm.....

The following are only suggestions. You can throw money at it and eventually you will likely cure this problem or maybe one of our more astute members knows exactly what the issue is but failing that.....

Again, I like to check no-cost possibilities first (being a cheap-azz) and wondering if you have spoked wheels? Wheel weights (if any originally) still in place?

Can you SAFELY & CAREFULLY raise the rear wheel and run through a couple of gears (hold rpm's where the vibration occurs)? You only need to raise it ~ 2 inches.

Many issues are caused by recent work being performed. Sometimes that work would seem to be totally un-related to the performer but to the trained (not me) mechanic the likely cause. Have you done ANYTHING since last July? This is where an up to date Bike Service Journal comes in handy.

[RoadKingKohn]

Good to hear you got the 3 Ohms reading.

So, at no additional cost, albeit a bit of a hassle but now you know how to properly adjust your IDLE Cable w/ Cruise and eliminated a throttle-related possibility.

Excellent acceleration......but shakes......hmmmmm.....

The following are only suggestions. You can throw money at it and eventually you will likely cure this problem or maybe one of our more astute members knows exactly what the issue is but failing that.....

Again, I like to check no-cost possibilities first (being a cheap-azz) and wondering if you have spoked wheels? Wheel weights (if any originally) still in place?

Can you SAFELY & CAREFULLY raise the rear wheel and run through a couple of gears (hold rpm's where the vibration occurs)? You only need to raise it ~ 2 inches.

Many issues are caused by recent work being performed. Sometimes that work would seem to be totally un-related to the performer but to the trained (not me) mechanic the likely cause. Have you done ANYTHING since last July? This is where an up to date Bike Service Journal comes in handy.

No work on the bike since July other than the listed parts replaced.

I use Dyna beads in my tires for balancing.

Interesting thing is when I am at speed of say 55mph I can pull in the clutch let the rpms drop and the bike is super smooth.

Hmmmm 

This just made me think. I wonder if there is something wrong with my clutch?

I am getting 46 to 48 mpg on long country rides.

I am a natural cheap ass. I don't believe in replacing things until it is broken. But I am all about having a safe ride under me and will spend the extra money to make sure that it is.

[Tacocaster]

"I use Dyna beads in my tires for balancing.

Interesting thing is when I am at speed of say 55mph I can pull in the clutch let the rpms drop and the bike is super smooth."

I'm not familiar with the benefits/issues of using Dyna beads for balancing but I think you've eliminated that potential issue. I'll leave that to the forum's experienced to address further, if necessary.
 
Clutch disengagement smooths it out? Now, I think you're getting somewhere and sure someone with more experience in our community can offer suggestions related to the Clutch, P. Chain and C. Basket that you can easily check. Betcha you're going to need Primary Fluid after resolving this issue 

p.s. I don't think you'll need to raise the rear wheel anymore.

[kd]

I think your thread title and previous description has sent this thread down the wrong road.  Now you're describing a bike that is vibrating at a certain speed / RPM.  If it's coasting with the clutch and it goes smooth, it's a drive train issue before the clutch pac.  Your clutch is allowing the engine rpm to fall below the vibration level and the rolling chassis is probably not a problem. We now need a more clear description.

Does the exhaust note change as it enters the vibration?  If so it may be an engine "tune" problem.

If in neutral (and also when in gear with the clutch in) does it begin to shake / vibrate as you increase the engine rpm to the 55 mph rpm level (and the exhaust note does not change), your problem is likely in  the engine to the primary drive.

On the road, if you run it up in each gear (to the same rpm as it vibrates in your description on the highway speed) will it begin to shake / vibrate?  Your problem is likely in  the engine to the primary drive.

When you pull in the clutch and release the plates you are omitting the possibility it is in the drive train after the clutch.  If it vibrates with the clutch engaged the engine and primary drive mechanical components are suspect.  (that is if the exhaust note doesn't change indicating a miss in the engine)

If any of the engine to primary conditions as described occur it's probably time to remove the primary cover and inspect those components.  The compensating sprocket mounting, chain condition for a stretched section and even engine main drive sprocket shaft runout are candidates.  The comp coming loose or being damaged is fairly common.  A chain issue not so much but still needs to be checked if the comp passes inspection.   Last would be the crank runout and that can and should be checked when the comp assembly is removed for inspection.

Let us know how this goes.

   

[RoadKingKohn]

I think your thread title and previous description has sent this thread down the wrong road.  Now you're describing a bike that is vibrating at a certain speed / RPM.  If it's coasting with the clutch and it goes smooth, it's a drive train issue before the clutch pac.  Your clutch is allowing the engine rpm to fall below the vibration level and the rolling chassis is probably not a problem. We now need a more clear description.

Does the exhaust note change as it enters the vibration?  If so it may be an engine "tune" problem.

If in neutral (and also when in gear with the clutch in) does it begin to shake / vibrate as you increase the engine rpm to the 55 mph rpm level (and the exhaust note does not change), your problem is likely in  the engine to the primary drive.

On the road, if you run it up in each gear (to the same rpm as it vibrates in your description on the highway speed) will it begin to shake / vibrate?  Your problem is likely in  the engine to the primary drive.

When you pull in the clutch and release the plates you are omitting the possibility it is in the drive train after the clutch.  If it vibrates with the clutch engaged the engine and primary drive mechanical components are suspect.  (that is if the exhaust note doesn't change indicating a miss in the engine)

If any of the engine to primary conditions as described occur it's probably time to remove the primary cover and inspect those components.  The compensating sprocket mounting, chain condition for a stretched section and even engine main drive sprocket shaft runout are candidates.  The comp coming loose or being damaged is fairly common.  A chain issue not so much but still needs to be checked if the comp passes inspection.   Last would be the crank runout and that can and should be checked when the comp assembly is removed for inspection.

Let us know how this goes.

   

Thank you.

I should get another chance to ride it on 09/26/23.

It would be really nice if I had a tachometer that way I could pin down the rpms where things happen.

I had forgotten about the compensator nut problem.

I did not notice a change in the exhaust note but then I was not listening to it. I will do that on the next ride.

Winter of 2021 I put a new S&S oil pump and cam plate in and seals on the transmission, primary and engine. I checked the run out at that time on the flywheel on both sides. .0015 sprocket, ,002 cam side

Tightened (torqued) and aligned the sprockets per the HD manual.

Looks like I have a lot of checking to do on the primary side. $$$

[RoadKingKohn]

Got to do a 70mph 10 mile run on Sunday. Acceleration was good, vibration was less than at 55mph, exhaust sound remained even based on rpms. I did not hear any misfires.

Today I was on a 22 mile ride. Speeds from 25 to 55mph.  Bad vibration felt in the foot boards at 35 in 3rd gear and 55 in 5th gear. 45 mph in 5th gear was a lot smoother.

The handlebars are not getting much vibration.

I hope to look into the primary drive on Tuesday.

[kd]

That sounds like it's about one step forward. It's obviously rpm oriented as it seems to occur in each gear in a similar fashion.  I'm thinking if the crank runout is still as tight as it was, it may be found in the primary before the transmission.  Let's hope it is somewhat obvious when you dig into it.

[RoadKingKohn]

That sounds like it's about one step forward. It's obviously rpm oriented as it seems to occur in each gear in a similar fashion.  I'm thinking if the crank runout is still as tight as it was, it may be found in the primary before the transmission.  Let's hope it is somewhat obvious when you dig into it.

I am fortunate enough to have a Twin Cam with a tension access plate. So my first move was to remove that and check the chain tension. It was loose so I tightened it up and will see if that fixed it.

Now it just needs to stop raining.

[RoadKingKohn]

Had a chance for a short run today.

Engine was running smoother after readjusting the primary chain tensioner.  I am going to try for a longer ride on Monday.

Acceleration seemed a little rough but cruising at 25, 35 and 45mph were all pretty smooth.