Time For Different Set Up

[WhipLash96]

I did a 124 on my 01 Road Glide. At the time I chose the cam, it was the correct choice, however, my riding has changed and the cam just doesn't work for me anymore. So, since I have a set of untouched twin cam heads laying around, time to send those off and get those done. Thinking of a TMan cams, headwork and different TB.


Thoughts?

[Hossamania]

What do you have now? What are your goals for the new build? Can you use your current heads and just change cams and tune?

[WhipLash96]

I have a clone of a Lunati grind that wasn't available in gear drive. So I had it made. I'm using a set of SE 110 heads with stock valves but ported.

I guess there's a possibility that I could use the SE heads, but from a conversation with TMan a while back, they would prefer not to use those.

[WhipLash96]

Has anyone here used this cam? I'm wondering what you think of it and where this cam lost (loses) its lungs. By looking at the specs, I'm guessing that it runs out of air at around 5k rpms? 124 application.

Thanks

[RoadKingKohn]

They are going to ask.

What kind of bike?
How do you ride?
What do you have in it now?
What are you hoping to gain?

[turboprop]

Has anyone here used this cam? I'm wondering what you think of it and where this cam lost (loses) its lungs. By looking at the specs, I'm guessing that it runs out of air at around 5k rpms? 124 application.

Thanks

Have you considered looking in the dyno section of this forum?

[Hilly13]

Pretty much what you are thinking Whip....

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?msg=940562

[Ohio HD]

An under appreciated set of cams are the S&S 625's. They run out longer with both HP and torque. At a relatively low corrected compression of 9.6:1 this motor runs like a locomotive and is cool and quiet for a large motor.

Larry's heads are a key part of this as the exhaust is the same as used with the Tman cams and heads in the previous sheet.


https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,100336.0.html

[WhipLash96]

Pretty much what you are thinking Whip....

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?msg=940562

Thanks for posting this. I didn't have the time to look in the dyno section this morning. I would have to say that this dyno sheet is nice but really low in the power output aspect. JMO I'm wondering what the other build aspects were. This sheet looks like it's low on the compression side.

[WhipLash96]

An under appreciated set of cams are the S&S 625's. They run out longer with both HP and torque. At a relatively low corrected compression of 9.6:1 this motor runs like a locomotive and is cool and quiet for a large motor.

Larry's heads are a key part of this as the exhaust is the same as used with the Tman cams and heads in the previous sheet.


https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,100336.0.html

I looked at this cam and quickly said no to it a long time ago. Although this graph is nice,the specs of this cam are similar to what I have now. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Ohio HD]

Cams with similar specs aren't necessarily the same at all. The total combination of all of the cams specs work together, as well as the lobe shapes.

You're better off observing existing dyno sheets than judging a cam by similarity. 

[turboprop]

That S&S 625 is available with the EZ Start feature. This alone is worth making whatever adjustments to optimize the build. 

[hrdtail78]

IMO The Tman 625 is great tq and wont carry out like his 590.  Think 662-1.  The 625 vs 590 are pretty close on paper, but have significant differences in some exhaust events looking a latest cam specs. Holding on to the exhaust longer doesn't help at higher rpms.

[WhipLash96]

Cams with similar specs aren't necessarily the same at all. The total combination of all of the cams specs work together, as well as the lobe shapes.

You're better off observing existing dyno sheets than judging a cam by similarity. 

Not sure where you got that I said that they are the same? Sure,the S&S 625 differs from the cam that I have now but not enough for me to say, "I have to use that cam!" That cam just isn't what I want because it is too close to what I already have and need to get rid of. Cam specs are cam specs. They all represent the same thing. A degree here, or a degree there difference in duration, LSA or intake opening or closing events isn't going to make such a difference how they run that any honest person could say with a straight face that one runs better than the other. (With all other build parameters being the same). For what I need to do, the S&S 625 just isn't the cam I need. Dyno sheets are fun to look at and all but they have never the sole determining factor of which cam I choose. Thank You for your suggestion of cam though. it is very much appreciated.

[Ohio HD]

Cams with similar specs aren't necessarily the same at all. The total combination of all of the cams specs work together, as well as the lobe shapes.

You're better off observing existing dyno sheets than judging a cam by similarity. 

Not sure where you got that I said that they are the same? Sure,the S&S 625 differs from the cam that I have now but not enough for me to say, "I have to use that cam!" That cam just isn't what I want because it is too close to what I already have and need to get rid of. Cam specs are cam specs. They all represent the same thing. A degree here, or a degree there difference in duration, LSA or intake opening or closing events isn't going to make such a difference how they run that any honest person could say with a straight face that one runs better than the other. (With all other build parameters being the same). For what I need to do, the S&S 625 just isn't the cam I need. Dyno sheets are fun to look at and all but they have never the sole determining factor of which cam I choose. Thank You for your suggestion of cam though. it is very much appreciated.

So what does the sheet look like with your custom ground cams?

[rigidthumper]

And what is the current build lacking?

[WhipLash96]

What do you have now? What are your goals for the new build? Can you use your current heads and just change cams and tune?

My goal is to have the same amount of power or a little more. I need to change where the power band comes in because the cam that I have now just isn't the right choice anymore. (Comes in WAY TOO LATE). I used to be a long distance touring rider, so when I built my 124, I went with a cam that would benefit me in the higher rpm range. But as I was in the process of actually putting together the engine, Life got pretty busy for me and I was no longer able to do those long interstate touring trips. My intention once the build was complete,I would return to that type of riding. Life hasn't really slowed down,then my dad (my main riding partner), was killed in a motorcycle accident right in front of me down in Blooming Prairie. I just got back on my bike about a month ago.

My ride, at 80 mph in 6th gear, pulls about 3050 rpms. The cam I have doesn't come on until 3300. I am not a high speed rider anymore except for an occasional fist full on country roads here in Minnesota. I do plan on returning to some long touring type trips, but without my dad with me, I am not sure about the frequency as of yet.

[WhipLash96]

Thank You KD!

[HogMike]

What do you have now? What are your goals for the new build? Can you use your current heads and just change cams and tune?

My goal is to have the same amount of power or a little more. I need to change where the power band comes in because the cam that I have now just isn't the right choice anymore. (Comes in WAY TOO LATE). I used to be a long distance touring rider, so when I built my 124, I went with a cam that would benefit me in the higher rpm range. But as I was in the process of actually putting together the engine, Life got pretty busy for me and I was no longer able to do those long interstate touring trips. My intention once the build was complete,I would return to that type of riding. Life hasn't really slowed down,then my dad (my main riding partner), was killed in a motorcycle accident right in front of me down in Blooming Prairie. I just got back on my bike about a month ago.

My ride, at 80 mph in 6th gear, pulls about 3050 rpms. The cam I have doesn't come on until 3300. I am not a high speed rider anymore except for an occasional fist full on country roads here in Minnesota. I do plan on returning to some long touring type trips, but without my dad with me, I am not sure about the frequency as of yet.

When I did my 124 I was after more passing power. Got that for sure!
Unfortunately, the group I usually ride with have mostly stock late model bikes and I'm riding at their pace.
My 5th gear is their 6th. My 6th is overdrive. At 3000 rpm I'm about 85.

Depending on who's leading I'm fishing for either 4th or 5th depending on RPM (different gear ratios on the grudge box) at 55. I chose a mild cam with good torque coming on about 2200-2500 for that reason. This 900+ pound pig will still pull hard in 6th to bury the speedo. My usual RPM range is 2200-3000 90% of the time. Different strokes for different folks!

Conversely, my S&S powered EVO starts pulling hard from 4000 and up. Hits the limiter quickly. Totally different manners.

JMHO

[Hilly13]

Whip! Man that is truely horrific! My sincere condolences mate.

[WhipLash96]

What do you have now? What are your goals for the new build? Can you use your current heads and just change cams and tune?

My goal is to have the same amount of power or a little more. I need to change where the power band comes in because the cam that I have now just isn't the right choice anymore. (Comes in WAY TOO LATE). I used to be a long distance touring rider, so when I built my 124, I went with a cam that would benefit me in the higher rpm range. But as I was in the process of actually putting together the engine, Life got pretty busy for me and I was no longer able to do those long interstate touring trips. My intention once the build was complete,I would return to that type of riding. Life hasn't really slowed down,then my dad (my main riding partner), was killed in a motorcycle accident right in front of me down in Blooming Prairie. I just got back on my bike about a month ago.

My ride, at 80 mph in 6th gear, pulls about 3050 rpms. The cam I have doesn't come on until 3300. I am not a high speed rider anymore except for an occasional fist full on country roads here in Minnesota. I do plan on returning to some long touring type trips, but without my dad with me, I am not sure about the frequency as of yet.

When I did my 124 I was after more passing power. Got that for sure!
Unfortunately, the group I usually ride with have mostly stock late model bikes and I'm riding at their pace.
My 5th gear is their 6th. My 6th is overdrive. At 3000 rpm I'm about 85.

Depending on who's leading I'm fishing for either 4th or 5th depending on RPM (different gear ratios on the grudge box) at 55. I chose a mild cam with good torque coming on about 2200-2500 for that reason. This 900+ pound pig will still pull hard in 6th to bury the speedo. My usual RPM range is 2200-3000 90% of the time. Different strokes for different folks!

Conversely, my S&S powered EVO starts pulling hard from 4000 and up. Hits the limiter quickly. Totally different manners.

JMHO

I would be extremely annoyed if I had to ride around in 4th gear. Lol. I have an OD6 with first being stock gearing but then it changes. Another reason why I need to change cams is that the cam that I currently have has 60° of overlap. Combine that with long duration and gigantic intake valve, that = crappy gas mileage. I have my eye on a few grinds, all in the Tman family.

[WhipLash96]

Whip! Man that is truely horrific! My sincere condolences mate.

Thanks. I don't wish that experience upon anybody. There for a while I had real doubts that I would ever get back on the saddle.

[harpwrench]

What compression is it and what exhaust system are you running? What are the current open/close cam events int/ex?

The stock intake valve on the 110 heads isn't too big and has nothing to do with it being soft on bottom and getting bad mpg, larger ones are a good idea

[Hossamania]

Having a cam that produces power in the upper rpm as with yours Whip, I found that running a gear short at speed produces better gas mileage, it puts the cam in the right power and, requiring less throttle to keep speed.

[WhipLash96]

Having a cam that produces power in the upper rpm as with yours Whip, I found that running a gear short at speed produces better gas mileage, it puts the cam in the right power and, requiring less throttle to keep speed.

I am doing that more often and it helps a little bit, but I am running an OD6. The tranny has a stock 1st gear in it but the rest is different.

Earlier you asked if I could use the stock heads. I'm beginning to think that I just don't have enough compression behind it. With such a high IVC event and small lift and the 0.040 head gasket, I just don't enough squeeze. I probably can but not sure in the same configuration. I want to say that when I had my heads cc'd that they came out at 89-90 cc's. But everyone I speak to about these heads say that stock they were 95cc. If that's the case, I screwed up.

[Hilly13]

My take would be to do as Harp alluded to, CCP check it as it is now, then you can narrow down the options, might be just a better cam for "your" needs or cam and exhaust might be the go, do you have the cam events handy?

[harpwrench]

Stock 110 heads are all over the place, mine were 92cc

[WhipLash96]

Stock 110 heads are all over the place, mine were 92cc

I have been hearing this more and more. I'm glad that I have a virgin set of heads sitting around that I can use. I have the cam picked out that I'm going to use finally.

[WhipLash96]

My take would be to do as Harp alluded to, CCP check it as it is now, then you can narrow down the options, might be just a better cam for "your" needs or cam and exhaust might be the go, do you have the cam events handy?

Yes, this is a good idea. I'm going riding here shortly and when I get back and she cools down I'm checking the ccp. The bad thing is that I never did a ccp test when this engine was built. (My fault). But, based off my cam specs, I have an idea of where it should be.

[WhipLash96]

What's the formula to figure out chamber volume reduction when decking a head?

Someone told me that for every .001" the chamber volume is reduced by .157". Is this correct?

[rigidthumper]

Standard TC heads is about .006" deck per cc reduction.

[FSG]

from quite a few years ago

[WhipLash96]

Thanks gentlemen. Just trying understand why certain numbers are being used.

I have some choices make that's for sure.

To give my current build more compression by shaving the heads? Or swapping cams and leaving heads alone?

Just based on those two choices, what would you do? (I haven't checked ccp yet as I just got home from riding).

[Hilly13]

I'd really like to know a few things Whip, what grind do you have in the engine now? what don't you like about how the engine performs now? what do you want it to perform like? and what your current CCP is? With those four bits of info you will get all the assistance you need from the good folk here.

[WhipLash96]

I'd really like to know a few things Whip, what grind do you have in the engine now? what don't you like about how the engine performs now? what do you want it to perform like? and what your current CCP is? With those four bits of info you will get all the assistance you need from the good folk here.

I need more squeeze and bang from this engine.

[Coff 06]

Personally,if you're somewhat happy. I would pull the heads and have them cut.A little more squish can make a night and day difference.
   Coff 06

[Hossamania]

My thoughts as well, horsepower is in the heads.

[WhipLash96]

Personally,if you're somewhat happy. I would pull the heads and have them cut.A little more squish can make a night and day difference.
   Coff 06

I'm liking this option more and more. I'm glad that I a set of heads sitting around in case it doesn't work out. 

[Coff 06]

Personally,if you're somewhat happy. I would pull the heads and have them cut.A little more squish can make a night and day difference.
   Coff 06

I'm liking this option more and more. I'm glad that I a set of heads sitting around in case it doesn't work out. 

Only reason I say this is,I had a set done and only evened up the CCs to 85.
In the end I had another set done and cut to 82CCs.
It really was a night and day difference on the exact same build.
Unbelievable        Coff 06

[WhipLash96]

Personally,if you're somewhat happy. I would pull the heads and have them cut.A little more squish can make a night and day difference.
   Coff 06

I'm liking this option more and more. I'm glad that I a set of heads sitting around in case it doesn't work out. 

Only reason I say this is,I had a set done and only evened up the CCs to 85.
In the end I had another set done and cut to 82CCs.
It really was a night and day difference on the exact same build.
Unbelievable        Coff 06

Right on. Once I get the ccp test done I'll know which way I'm going to go. Currently the heads I have on are at 90 cc's. I'm thinking if I get those down to 86-85 cc's this engine will hit much harder and make better use of my fuel.

[FXDBI]

Run your engine build info into big boyz calculator and do a compression test to compare the results. Take those results and make a better decision on cams and head chamber size and actual running compression with your cam choice. Take the guess out of what cam will do what then.  Bob

[Coff 06]

Mine are stock 06 heads (both sets) They start around 86-87cc.Also I run 10cc dome pistons .
Coff 06

[WhipLash96]

Run your engine build info into big boyz calculator and do a compression test to compare the results. Take those results and make a better decision on cams and head chamber size and actual running compression with your cam choice. Take the guess out of what cam will do what then.  Bob

That is my intention.

[WhipLash96]

Mine are stock 06 heads (both sets) They start around 86-87cc.Also I run 10cc dome pistons .
Coff 06

Race Bike?

[Coff 06]

Mine are stock 06 heads (both sets) They start around 86-87cc.Also I run 10cc dome pistons .
Coff 06

Race Bike?

Nope,just built to outrun my riding buddies.        Coff 06

[WhipLash96]

Mine are stock 06 heads (both sets) They start around 86-87cc.Also I run 10cc dome pistons .
Coff 06

Race Bike?

Nope,just built to outrun my riding buddies.        Coff 06

Nice! I prefer to ride alone for the most part. Ride On!

[Hossamania]

Mine are stock 06 heads (both sets) They start around 86-87cc.Also I run 10cc dome pistons .
Coff 06

Race Bike?

Nope,just built to outrun my riding buddies.        Coff 06

A proper goal

[Coff 06]

When not going solo,I only have ONE tight brother I ride with.
Occasionally someone might join us        Coff 06

My bike is my signature line

[WhipLash96]

When not going solo,I only have ONE tight brother I ride with.
Occasionally someone might join us        Coff 06

My bike is my signature line

Think I will have to change my tune by just adding compression?

[Hossamania]

When not going solo,I only have ONE tight brother I ride with.
Occasionally someone might join us        Coff 06

My bike is my signature line

Think I will have to change my tune by just adding compression?

I would.

[Coff 06]

If you don't optimize the compression for the cam you already have.
You'll never have any idea of the potential that's in there waiting to come out.
Change the whole setup and you could be right back here trying to get more out of it.   
         JMHO.    Coff 06

[WhipLash96]

If you don't optimize the compression for the cam you already have.
You'll never have any idea of the potential that's in there waiting to come out.
Change the whole setup and you could be right back here trying to get more out of it.   
         JMHO.    Coff 06

Tomorrow I will finally be able to do the compression test. I'll post what I find.

[60Gunner]

Whatever came of this? That said, the Tman 590s are a great combination of low end torque that runs runs out to redline. 127/126 in my 107 and that's with true duals. I just saw a dyno sheet someone sent me of 129/128 with a fatcat in a 107 .110ft.lbs. torque @ 2200 rpm.
Jason @ C&S Speedshop tuned a 110 doing  132HP/128Torque with the 590s with stock 110 heads.
Agree your heads are holding you back tho.

[WhipLash96]

Whatever came of this? That said, the Tman 590s are a great combination of low end torque that runs runs out to redline. 127/126 in my 107 and that's with true duals. I just saw a dyno sheet someone sent me of 129/128 with a fatcat in a 107 .110ft.lbs. torque @ 2200 rpm.
Jason @ C&S Speedshop tuned a 110 doing  with the 590s with stock 110 heads.
Agree your heads are holding you back.

I haven't gotten to taking the test yet. Hopefully later today or tomorrow. I need to pick up a remote starter switch first.

Agreed on the heads. I'm favoring more and more to shave the heads that I have on down. Will cost me less.

[60Gunner]

Good place to start.  You want at least 200psi ccp.
My CCP is 212 and my heads flow 310+cfm @ .700 lift with an average in the 230s cfm. 305+ @ .600 lift.
What I like is the 590s do what they do @ .590 lift. Easy on the valve train. My spring seat pressure is 147. 347 open.

[WhipLash96]

Good place to start.  You want at least 200psi ccp.
My CCP is 212 and my heads flow 310+cfm @ .700 lift with an average in the 230s cfm. 305+ @ .600 lift.
What I like is the 590s do what they do @ .590 lift. Easy on the valve train. My spring seat pressure is 147. 347 open.

I'm going to keep the cam that I have for now. After this project gets done I will be at around 11.8:1 static.

[60Gunner]

Good place to start.  You want at least 200psi ccp.
My CCP is 212 and my heads flow 310+cfm @ .700 lift with an average in the 230s cfm. 305+ @ .600 lift.
What I like is the 590s do what they do @ .590 lift. Easy on the valve train. My spring seat pressure is 147. 347 open.

I'm going to keep the cam that I have for now. After this project gets done I will be at around 11.8:1 static.

What's the cam specs?

[WhipLash96]

Good place to start.  You want at least 200psi ccp.
My CCP is 212 and my heads flow 310+cfm @ .700 lift with an average in the 230s cfm. 305+ @ .600 lift.
What I like is the 590s do what they do @ .590 lift. Easy on the valve train. My spring seat pressure is 147. 347 open.

I'm going to keep the cam that I have for now. After this project gets done I will be at around 11.8:1 static.

What's the cam specs?

Keep in mind that this is a 124 we are talking about

[60Gunner]

I

Good place to start.  You want at least 200psi ccp.
My CCP is 212 and my heads flow 310+cfm @ .700 lift with an average in the 230s cfm. 305+ @ .600 lift.
What I like is the 590s do what they do @ .590 lift. Easy on the valve train. My spring seat pressure is 147. 347 open.

I'm going to keep the cam that I have for now. After this project gets done I will be at around 11.8:1 static.

What's the cam specs?

Keep in mind that this is a 124 we are talking about

I'm well aware of that. That's why I asked your current cam specs and compression. You can pull the heads and shave them to get the compression you need for you current cams assuming you don't run into any clearance issues.
Without knowing TDC lift of your cams and how much needs to come off...?

Or swap cams based on your current compression/configuration.
A 117 at 10.8 did 132hp/140 torque. 120+ torque at 2000rpm. 55mm throttle body and 4.9 injectors. A 124 even better. Couldn't find the dyno on the 124 at the moment. Both 590s. They can be run from 10.5 to 11.1.
I did find a turbo'd 124 with them doing 232/201. : )

Just throwing out the other alternative depending on current compression. Swapping  cams is way easier imo. Especially one known to do what you want with your current configuration.

Good luck.

[WhipLash96]

I

Good place to start.  You want at least 200psi ccp.
My CCP is 212 and my heads flow 310+cfm @ .700 lift with an average in the 230s cfm. 305+ @ .600 lift.
What I like is the 590s do what they do @ .590 lift. Easy on the valve train. My spring seat pressure is 147. 347 open.

I'm going to keep the cam that I have for now. After this project gets done I will be at around 11.8:1 static.

What's the cam specs?

Keep in mind that this is a 124 we are talking about

I'm well aware of that. That's why I asked your current cam specs and compression. You can pull the heads and shave them to get the compression you need for you current cams assuming you don't run into any clearance issues.
Without knowing TDC lift of your cams and how much needs to come off...?

Or swap cams based on your current compression/configuration.
A 117 at 10.8 did 132hp/140 torque. 120+ torque at 2000rpm. 55mm throttle body and 4.9 injectors. A 124 even better. Couldn't find the dyno on the 124 at the moment. Both 590s. They can be run from 10.5 to 11.1.
I did find a turbo'd 124 with them doing 232/201. : )

Just throwing out the other alternative depending on current compression. Swapping  cams is way easier imo. Especially one known to do what you want with your current configuration.

Good luck.

The cam is less than .200 for TDC lift. The cam is a .585 lift I, .601 lift E, IVC is 56, Durations are 255/260, overlap 60°, LSA 109° As I have been saying, when this engine was built, it was intended for higher interstate speed travel. Currently I'm in the 9.4:1 corrected compression range. I want to buy this up to about 9.8-9.9 range. Before I make final decision, piston to valve clearance will be checked to see if I can do what I want.

[harpwrench]

Have you looked at cyclerama's 630i?
What pipe are you running?

Here's a link to a 124 that might be similar to yours, with the 630i and stage I 110 heads (I believe the tuner told me they still had stock intake valves)

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,102526.0.html

[WhipLash96]

Have you looked at cyclerama's 630i?
What pipe are you running?

Here's a link to a 124 that might be similar to yours, with the 630i and stage I 110 heads (I believe the tuner told me they still had stock intake valves)

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,102526.0.html

I have considered it but I think the reason why I said no to it was I could never find the full cam specs. Mr Don has suggested this cam. If this cam is really close to their 630, I'm leary of the TDC lift because my pistons are proud of the deck.

[Ohio HD]

I don't think that CR has a 630 any longer, only the 630i. As far as specs, they're all over the internet, and also here.

As far as TDC lift, 0.210" isn't all that aggressive. Most aftermarket pistons have larger than OEM valve reliefs. Until you clay what you have now, or use the drop valve method, you can't make a decision as to what will work. Clay is a better method in my opinion.

https://harleytechtalk.com/tools/calculators.html


You cannot see attachments on this board.

[Ohio HD]

You cannot see attachments on this board.

[WhipLash96]

I don't think that CR has a 630 any longer, only the 630i. As far as specs, they're all over the internet, and also here.

As far as TDC lift, 0.210" isn't all that aggressive. Most aftermarket pistons have larger than OEM valve reliefs. Until you clay what you have now, or use the drop valve method, you can't make a decision as to what will work. Clay is a better method in my opinion.

https://harleytechtalk.com/tools/calculators.html


You cannot see attachments on this board.

Thanks. First time I have seen the complete specs. I forgot to mention that the cams specs I gave were measured from @ 0.50 not .053.

To be honest, if I were to change cams, I would prefer an lsa of 105-106.


Added: Also not seeing the 630I available for 99-06 gear drive.

[Ohio HD]

If you copied a Lunati cam that closes at 51° it would be one of these.


You cannot see attachments on this board.

[kd]

You cannot see attachments on this board.

I agree.  Clay is the way to go.  Choose the cam because it has the right properties you are looking for (confirm on dyno sheets), Mock up the engine and use clay, measure all of the relevant clearances and if necessary have the valve pockets touched up.  As you can see the eyebrow and the depth are visible to the eye also. The eyebrow can be a concern with cut heads (for compression), thinner gaskets and larger valves when using some pistons.  Mocking up the engine before assembly doesn't take long and tends to increase your confidence and comfort when it goes back together for real.

If your pistons are actually out of the hole a few thousand consider a thicker base gasket that will remedy that.   Cometic will make them for you if they have the right stock.  There are a few ways to accomplish it.

[60Gunner]

I

Good place to start.  You want at least 200psi ccp.
My CCP is 212 and my heads flow 310+cfm @ .700 lift with an average in the 230s cfm. 305+ @ .600 lift.
What I like is the 590s do what they do @ .590 lift. Easy on the valve train. My spring seat pressure is 147. 347 open.

I'm going to keep the cam that I have for now. After this project gets done I will be at around 11.8:1 static.

What's the cam specs?

Keep in mind that this is a 124 we are talking about

I'm well aware of that. That's why I asked your current cam specs and compression. You can pull the heads and shave them to get the compression you need for you current cams assuming you don't run into any clearance issues.
Without knowing TDC lift of your cams and how much needs to come off...?

Or swap cams based on your current compression/configuration.
A 117 at 10.8 did 132hp/140 torque. 120+ torque at 2000rpm. 55mm throttle body and 4.9 injectors. A 124 even better. Couldn't find the dyno on the 124 at the moment. Both 590s. They can be run from 10.5 to 11.1.
I did find a turbo'd 124 with them doing 232/201. : )

Just throwing out the other alternative depending on current compression. Swapping  cams is way easier imo. Especially one known to do what you want with your current configuration.

Good luck.

The cam is less than .200 for TDC lift. The cam is a .585 lift I, .601 lift E, IVC is 56, Durations are 255/260, overlap 60°, LSA 109° As I have been saying, when this engine was built, it was intended for higher interstate speed travel. Currently I'm in the 9.4:1 corrected compression range. I want to buy this up to about 9.8-9.9 range. Before I make final decision, piston to valve clearance will be checked to see if I can do what I want.

60° overlap?

Mr. Don is a fan of the Dave Mackie

Have you looked at cyclerama's 630i?
What pipe are you running?

Here's a link to a 124 that might be similar to yours, with the 630i and stage I 110 heads (I believe the tuner told me they still had stock intake valves)

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,102526.0.html

Have you looked at cyclerama's 630i?
What pipe are you running?

Here's a link to a 124 that might be similar to yours, with the 630i and stage I 110 heads (I believe the tuner told me they still had stock intake valves)

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,102526.0.html

I have considered it but I think the reason why I said no to it was I could never find the full cam specs. Mr Don has suggested this cam. If this cam is really close to their 630, I'm leary of the TDC lift because my pistons are proud of the deck.

60° overlap? What exhaust?
Mr. Don is a fan of the Dave Mackie 598. I know of several 124s running them. Two or three in same thread on another forum. 143/144 with R&R billet heads.
You'll get better low end torque with the tman 590s tho I think.
DM598 comes gear drive too. 254/256 duration. 44° overlap. LSA 105.5 

https://www.davemackie.com/product/twin-cam-1999-2006-except-2006-dyna-gear-drive-valve-lift-598/

[WhipLash96]

I

Good place to start.  You want at least 200psi ccp.
My CCP is 212 and my heads flow 310+cfm @ .700 lift with an average in the 230s cfm. 305+ @ .600 lift.
What I like is the 590s do what they do @ .590 lift. Easy on the valve train. My spring seat pressure is 147. 347 open.

I'm going to keep the cam that I have for now. After this project gets done I will be at around 11.8:1 static.

What's the cam specs?

Keep in mind that this is a 124 we are talking about

I'm well aware of that. That's why I asked your current cam specs and compression. You can pull the heads and shave them to get the compression you need for you current cams assuming you don't run into any clearance issues.
Without knowing TDC lift of your cams and how much needs to come off...?

Or swap cams based on your current compression/configuration.
A 117 at 10.8 did 132hp/140 torque. 120+ torque at 2000rpm. 55mm throttle body and 4.9 injectors. A 124 even better. Couldn't find the dyno on the 124 at the moment. Both 590s. They can be run from 10.5 to 11.1.
I did find a turbo'd 124 with them doing 232/201. : )

Just throwing out the other alternative depending on current compression. Swapping  cams is way easier imo. Especially one known to do what you want with your current configuration.

Good luck.

The cam is less than .200 for TDC lift. The cam is a .585 lift I, .601 lift E, IVC is 56, Durations are 255/260, overlap 60°, LSA 109° As I have been saying, when this engine was built, it was intended for higher interstate speed travel. Currently I'm in the 9.4:1 corrected compression range. I want to buy this up to about 9.8-9.9 range. Before I make final decision, piston to valve clearance will be checked to see if I can do what I want.

60° overlap?

Mr. Don is a fan of the Dave Mackie

Have you looked at cyclerama's 630i?
What pipe are you running?

Here's a link to a 124 that might be similar to yours, with the 630i and stage I 110 heads (I believe the tuner told me they still had stock intake valves)

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,102526.0.html

Have you looked at cyclerama's 630i?
What pipe are you running?

Here's a link to a 124 that might be similar to yours, with the 630i and stage I 110 heads (I believe the tuner told me they still had stock intake valves)

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,102526.0.html

I have considered it but I think the reason why I said no to it was I could never find the full cam specs. Mr Don has suggested this cam. If this cam is really close to their 630, I'm leary of the TDC lift because my pistons are proud of the deck.

60° overlap? What exhaust?
Mr. Don is a fan of the Dave Mackie 598. I know of several 124s running them. Two or three in same thread on another forum. 143/144 with R&R billet heads.
You'll get better low end torque with the tman 590s tho I think.
DM598 comes gear drive too. 254/256 duration. 44° overlap. LSA 105.5 

https://www.davemackie.com/product/twin-cam-1999-2006-except-2006-dyna-gear-drive-valve-lift-598/

This is an interesting cam. 🤔

[tdrglide]

If you're looking at the Mackie 598,
Mackie shows the 598 needs 10.2+cr. He's being way conservative. It would be very soft on bottom at that cr.
I have ran it at 11 to 11.1. That is where it really shines. Also very quiet and no need for roller rockers. Excellent long distance touring with power

[harpwrench]

What pipe are you running

[60Gunner]

If you're looking at the Mackie 598,
Mackie shows the 598 needs 10.2+cr. He's being way conservative. It would be very soft on bottom at that cr.
I have ran it at 11 to 11.1. That is where it really shines. Also very quiet and no need for roller rockers. Excellent long distance touring with power

I think that 10.2 is a misprint.
This cam is very interesting indeed. I know Mr. Don loves this cam. We talked about it when I did my my build. Actually right after. I might've done it myself had I not already had the 590s.
The Tman 590PS2 or this DM598  at 10.8 - 11.0 are 2 very good cams for what you want. The 590 will have a little more cranking compression at the same compression ratio. About 8-10psi more as I recall.
These would be my choices and hard to beat for cams with good low end torque that run out to 6000rpm for good top end too. And easy on the valve train!

[WhipLash96]

What pipe are you running

D&D

[WhipLash96]

If you're looking at the Mackie 598,
Mackie shows the 598 needs 10.2+cr. He's being way conservative. It would be very soft on bottom at that cr.
I have ran it at 11 to 11.1. That is where it really shines. Also very quiet and no need for roller rockers. Excellent long distance touring with power

I think that 10.2 is a misprint.
This cam is very interesting indeed. I know Mr. Don loves this cam. We talked about it when I did my my build. Actually right after. I might've done it myself had I not already had the 590s.
The Tman 590PS2 or this DM598  at 10.8 - 11.0 are 2 very good cams for what you want. The 590 will have a little more cranking compression at the same compression ratio. About 8-10psi more as I recall.
These would be my choices and hard to beat for cams with good low end torque that run out to 6000rpm for good top end too. And easy on the valve train!

205-210 ccp is good for me. Do you work for TMan? Pushing that 590 pretty hard. Lol No worries, it's all good. Gosh, I would think that at 10;1 Corrected that that plenty of squeeze.

[60Gunner]

If you're looking at the Mackie 598,
Mackie shows the 598 needs 10.2+cr. He's being way conservative. It would be very soft on bottom at that cr.
I have ran it at 11 to 11.1. That is where it really shines. Also very quiet and no need for roller rockers. Excellent long distance touring with power

I think that 10.2 is a misprint.
This cam is very interesting indeed. I know Mr. Don loves this cam. We talked about it when I did my my build. Actually right after. I might've done it myself had I not already had the 590s.
The Tman 590PS2 or this DM598  at 10.8 - 11.0 are 2 very good cams for what you want. The 590 will have a little more cranking compression at the same compression ratio. About 8-10psi more as I recall.
These would be my choices and hard to beat for cams with good low end torque that run out to 6000rpm for good top end too. And easy on the valve train!

205-210 ccp is good for me. Do you work for TMan? Pushing that 590 pretty hard. Lol No worries, it's all good. Gosh, I would think that at 10;1 Corrected that that plenty of squeeze.

Nope, I just know what they're capable of. So does Don. So does my tuner you all know here. He's already told you the same thing hasn't he? For some reason you don't seem to want to listen or care for them. Not sure which.
Either of these two cams are great for what you want. Yes in a 124. And they won't beat the snot out of your valvevtrain doing it. That's why I like them.

Look at the woods 888 once. Tell me what you see?

Who is Mr. Don?

Head Porter.

The CR630i is a good cam too if you have the clearance. Higher lift, require higher spring pressures probably and roller rockers?

Who is Mr. Don?

Dorfman, you guys are referring to him as Mr. Don? blahahahahha

I assume that's who he was referring to in a post a ways back. Just kind of stuck.  lol

[turboprop]

Who is Mr. Don?

[60Gunner]

Who is Mr. Don?

Head Porter.

The CR630i is a good cam too if you have the clearance. Higher lift, require higher spring pressures probably and roller rockers?

[turboprop]

 
[/quote]

Who is Mr. Don?

Head Porter.

The CR630i is a good cam too if you have the clearance. Higher lift, require higher spring pressures probably and roller rockers?

Dorfman, you guys are referring to him as Mr. Don? blahahahahha

[WhipLash96]

If you're looking at the Mackie 598,
Mackie shows the 598 needs 10.2+cr. He's being way conservative. It would be very soft on bottom at that cr.
I have ran it at 11 to 11.1. That is where it really shines. Also very quiet and no need for roller rockers. Excellent long distance touring with power

I think that 10.2 is a misprint.
This cam is very interesting indeed. I know Mr. Don loves this cam. We talked about it when I did my my build. Actually right after. I might've done it myself had I not already had the 590s.
The Tman 590PS2 or this DM598  at 10.8 - 11.0 are 2 very good cams for what you want. The 590 will have a little more cranking compression at the same compression ratio. About 8-10psi more as I recall.
These would be my choices and hard to beat for cams with good low end torque that run out to 6000rpm for good top end too. And easy on the valve train!

205-210 ccp is good for me. Do you work for TMan? Pushing that 590 pretty hard. Lol No worries, it's all good. Gosh, I would think that at 10;1 Corrected that that plenty of squeeze.

Nope, I just know what they're capable of. So does Don. So does my tuner you all know here. He's already told you the same thing hasn't he? For some reason you don't seem to want to listen or care for them. Not sure which.
Either of these two cams are great for what you want. Yes in a 124. And they won't beat the snot out of your valvevtrain doing it. That's why I like them.

Look at the woods 888 once. Tell me what you see?

Boy, I think you misinterpreted my last statement.  I have no problem with the 590. You like it and use it, that's cool. Not listening? Not sure where you are getting that? As far as "tuners" on thus site goes, I have no idea who they are and not concerning myself with that. I'm sure they are knowledgeable and capable people, but I have my own tuner.

Believe me, I am listening to what you are saying more than you think.

[djl]

Added: Also not seeing the 630I available for 99-06 gear drive.

Whip, call Wes. I am running the CR595 in my 98" motor which was also not shown as available for gear drive but I am running it with gears. I run that cam at 11.25 static, 10.0 corrected and 213CCP. First CR cam and it seems that they like compression.

[60Gunner]

Added: Also not seeing the 630I available for 99-06 gear drive.

Whip, call Wes. I am running the CR595 in my 98" motor which was also not shown as available for gear drive but I am running it with gears. I run that cam at 11.25 static, 10.0 corrected and 213CCP. First CR cam and it seems that they like compression.

Darren says aim about 10psi high on compression on the 630i as the early exhaust opening bleeds pressure just like a later intake opening does. Maybe the same with the 595? Another good cam btw.

If you're looking at the Mackie 598,
Mackie shows the 598 needs 10.2+cr. He's being way conservative. It would be very soft on bottom at that cr.
I have ran it at 11 to 11.1. That is where it really shines. Also very quiet and no need for roller rockers. Excellent long distance touring with power

I think that 10.2 is a misprint.
This cam is very interesting indeed. I know Mr. Don loves this cam. We talked about it when I did my my build. Actually right after. I might've done it myself had I not already had the 590s.
The Tman 590PS2 or this DM598  at 10.8 - 11.0 are 2 very good cams for what you want. The 590 will have a little more cranking compression at the same compression ratio. About 8-10psi more as I recall.
These would be my choices and hard to beat for cams with good low end torque that run out to 6000rpm for good top end too. And easy on the valve train!

205-210 ccp is good for me. Do you work for TMan? Pushing that 590 pretty hard. Lol No worries, it's all good. Gosh, I would think that at 10;1 Corrected that that plenty of squeeze.

Nope, I just know what they're capable of. So does Don. So does my tuner you all know here. He's already told you the same thing hasn't he? For some reason you don't seem to want to listen or care for them. Not sure which.
Either of these two cams are great for what you want. Yes in a 124. And they won't beat the snot out of your valvevtrain doing it. That's why I like them.

Look at the woods 888 once. Tell me what you see?

Boy, I think you misinterpreted my last statement.  I have no problem with the 590. You like it and use it, that's cool. Not listening? Not sure where you are getting that? As far as "tuners" on thus site goes, I have no idea who they are and not concerning myself with that. I'm sure they are knowledgeable and capable people, but I have my own tuner.

Believe me, I am listening to what you are saying more than you think.

No worries. 
The 590s and 598s have a few things in common I really ilike is all.
If you noticed the Woods 888 has the exact intake valve events as the 590s but look at the LSA.
Now look at the LSA of the 590s and 598s. They also have a little added exhaust duration. The 630i a little more.

[WhipLash96]

Added: Also not seeing the 630I available for 99-06 gear drive.

Whip, call Wes. I am running the CR595 in my 98" motor which was also not shown as available for gear drive but I am running it with gears. I run that cam at 11.25 static, 10.0 corrected and 213CCP. First CR cam and it seems that they like compression.

How ya doing Don? Still down in Texas? I'll give them a look. 😎

[djl]

How ya doing Don? Still down in Texas? I'll give them a look. 😎

All good.  Yep, still here;nt going anywhere either.  Not riding as much as I used to; seem to ride a bit less each year.  The summer heat this year limited my riding; I don't ride in 105* temps, pretty unusual even for south Texas summers.  Interesting project you are taking on; I will be following.

[WhipLash96]

How ya doing Don? Still down in Texas? I'll give them a look. 😎

All good.  Yep, still here;nt going anywhere either.  Not riding as much as I used to; seem to ride a bit less each year.  The summer heat this year limited my riding; I don't ride in 105* temps, pretty unusual even for south Texas summers.  Interesting project you are taking on; I will be following.

Bummer that you aren't riding as much. I don't like to ride in 90+ heat. Up here the humidity really sucks in summer. I parked the bikes for the summer. Decided about a month ago to get back in the saddle. Managed 1k.

Good to see you, it's been a while since we have interacted.  Still running the 98" eh? I thought you were riding a 107 all bore build?

[djl]

How ya doing Don? Still down in Texas? I'll give them a look. 😎

All good.  Yep, still here;not going anywhere either.  Not riding as much as I used to; seem to ride a bit less each year.  The summer heat this year limited my riding; I don't ride in 105* temps, pretty unusual even for south Texas summers.  Interesting project you are taking on; I will be following.

Bummer that you aren't riding as much. I don't like to ride in 90+ heat. Up here the humidity really sucks in summer. I parked the bikes for the summer. Decided about a month ago to get back in the saddle. Managed 1k.

Good to see you, it's been a while since we have interacted.  Still running the 98" eh? I thought you were riding a 107 all bore build?

Sold the 02FLHT with the all bore 107" motor about a year back; also sold the BMW R9T so down to the Deuce that I converted from a 95" to a 98" motor about that same time.  The little 98" is making 115/115 numbers and is fun to ride but seems a bit heavier as I get older.  I might just need a lighter bike.

[60Gunner]

How ya doing Don? Still down in Texas? I'll give them a look. 😎

All good.  Yep, still here;not going anywhere either.  Not riding as much as I used to; seem to ride a bit less each year.  The summer heat this year limited my riding; I don't ride in 105* temps, pretty unusual even for south Texas summers.  Interesting project you are taking on; I will be following.

Bummer that you aren't riding as much. I don't like to ride in 90+ heat. Up here the humidity really sucks in summer. I parked the bikes for the summer. Decided about a month ago to get back in the saddle. Managed 1k.

Good to see you, it's been a while since we have interacted.  Still running the 98" eh? I thought you were riding a 107 all bore build?

Sold the 02FLHT with the all bore 107" motor about a year back; also sold the BMW R9T so down to the Deuce that I converted from a 95" to a 98" motor about that same time.  The little 98" is making 115/115 numbers and is fun to ride but seems a bit heavier as I get older.  I might just need a lighter bike.

This 98 build is why I'm running the Pro Streets on my 107 doing 127/126. I detest 2in1s as much as you do. lol They sound like sh!+ and look even worse. Especially on a softail.
Your CR 595s are another good possible cam here for whiplash.
I think staying under .600 lift will still get whip everything out of this build and be easy on his valve train.
Between the T man 590, DM 598, or CR 595, depending on his current compression, one if these 3 cams is the ticket to what he's looking for. Short of doing more headwork to accommodate and make use of higher lift cams and just running his current 110 heads.
I would say Tman 662-2 or CR630i if doing a complete job on another set of heads maybe.
His pistons being above deck is a consideration here.

[WhipLash96]

 

I have been looking at the 630I, TMan 660,the 662 as well. I'm not really interested in having to buy another TB and or injectors if I don't have to. You're right,  I would prefer to stay under or at 600 lift if I can. I'm already rocken with rollers though.

Not sure I want to "correct" the slugs for a 0 deck though.

[FXDBI]

How did the compression test come out?   Bob

[kd]

I have been looking at the 630I, TMan 660,the 662 as well. I'm not really interested in having to buy another TB and or injectors if I don't have to. You're right,  I would prefer to stay under or at 600 lift if I can. I'm already rocken with rollers though.

Not sure I want to "correct" the slugs for a 0 deck though.

If you are pulling the barrels off achieving 0 deck going back together is easy to do. 

[WhipLash96]

I have been looking at the 630I, TMan 660,the 662 as well. I'm not really interested in having to buy another TB and or injectors if I don't have to. You're right,  I would prefer to stay under or at 600 lift if I can. I'm already rocken with rollers though.

Not sure I want to "correct" the slugs for a 0 deck though.

If you are pulling the barrels off achieving 0 deck going back together is easy to do. 

Not if I don't have to.😎

[WhipLash96]

How did the compression test come out?   Bob

I went to go do it but I have to fix the Schrader Valve in my gauge. I don't have a tool to fix that on the ready so I have to get one. Probably won't get back to until tomorrow as I am bringing my seat and back rest pad in to get recovered. Using the remote starter switch works well.😎

[WhipLash96]

My compression gauge is broken! Thought I had it fixed but nope. I borrowed it to a friend as it was working. Got it back, broken. Never Again will I borrow out my tools!

Have a new one on the way though.

[WhipLash96]

Finally got my new compression tester but it was late yesterday.  Today is supposed to be a really nice day so I'm not going to waste it working on the bike. I'm going riding.

I was poking around TMans site more thoroughly and I came across their Pro Elite Touring Kits. From the description, it seems that this kit would be perfect for what my goals are. Only thing is to pick a cam.

I know we have talked a lot about cam in this thread, but it seems to me that if I go this route, I will have to use one of their cams. I would feel crappy if I didn't anyway.

[harpwrench]

What pipe are you running

D&D

Maybe it would like a little smaller baffle. Your cam isn't huge and 140 tq is decent with no more than your heads flow. Without seeing the graph it kinda sounds like you just have a dip that can be fixed or at least improved with exhaust tuning

[Hilly13]

Do you have a graph Whip?

[60Gunner]

Check out this thread. It touches on what I've been saying about overexhausting too.
Note the cams and numbers being suggested and by who.
And note what the OP is going to for pipes with S&S cams and their high exhaust duration...in a 124.

https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=117359.0

[60Gunner]

I had a video of a 124 with the 590s on the dyno doing 142hp/153Torque but I can't find it atm. Pulls from 2500 to red line. Torque was 120+ at 2500. Pretty good for a cam under .600 lift.

[WhipLash96]

I had a video of a 124 with the 590s on the dyno doing 142hp/153Torque but I can't find it atm. Pulls from 2500 to red line. Torque was 120+ at 2500. Pretty good for a cam under .600 lift.

Let me know if you find it.

[60Gunner]

You'll be good doing what you're doing Whip.

I'm going to leave y'all with this to ponder tho.
154hp/150torque. 125torque @ 2500rpm.
What cam?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php/?id=100063650316552&story_fbid=10156003779882181

[WhipLash96]

You'll be good doing what you're doing Whip.

I'm going to leave y'all with this to ponder tho.
154hp/150torque. 125torque @ 2500rpm.
What cam?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php/?id=100063650316552&story_fbid=10156003779882181

That's gobs of power that's for sure.😎