2023 brake problems.

[HogMike]

One of our group has a bad surging issue on his 2023 limited.
He says the brakes always had a very slight "pulsing" when coming to a stop.
After about 6 months it has gotten progressively worse.

Dealer acknowledged a surge/pulse issue but say everything is in spec so they can't/won't change rotors. They offered to SELL him 2 new rotors and install them. He would have to pay for everything to keep warranty intact.
Hmmm

Just found out this morning a second rider in our club with a 2023 RG has the same issue.

They had contacted me because I had a similar issue a few years ago on a different bike. I went through the process with the dealership and HD customer service and showed them the video of my dial indicator on the rotors.
HD finally authorized replacement of wheel, bearings, rotors, etc.

Anyone else having a braking issue with the new bikes?
 

[Hossamania]

Sometimes brake pad material will transfer to the rotor, causing a pulse. Some brake cleaner and a red Scotchbrite pad can usually clean it off.
Otherwise you may need a dial indicator to measure runout for proof to the dealer if warped.
A friend with an '08 had pulse issues early on, I never did hear if he got it straightened out.

[HogMike]

Sometimes brake pad material will transfer to the rotor, causing a pulse. Some brake cleaner and a red Scotchbrite pad can usually clean it off.
Otherwise you may need a dial indicator to measure runout for proof to the dealer if warped.
A friend with an '08 had pulse issues early on, I never did hear if he got it straightened out.

He just called and said the dealer wants to change his front tire.
Don't understand that reasoning at all since it's a fairly new bike with factory tires and all. He has to pay for that. He's not ok with that.
They checked runout and brake pads and told him it's all within specs.
Mechanic said he noticed the pulsing after a check ride but it's not noted on his receipt.
I guess he noticed it right away when new but it's getting worse.
I suggested like you the rotors may have some damage or soft spot or gunk on them.

I'm not sure their mechanics go into depth to figure it out.
I say this from past personal experience.

[Hossamania]

He could set up a simple wire gauge to check runout on the rotors.
I don't see how changing the tire will help, especially on his own dime. If it is defective,that should be on the dealer.
Have him check runout for himself, clean the rotors. After that, get the factory involved if the dealer will not give satisfaction.

[HogMike]

He could set up a simple wire gauge to check runout on the rotors.
I don't see how changing the tire will help, especially on his own dime. If it is defective,that should be on the dealer.
Have him check runout for himself, clean the rotors. After that, get the factory involved if the dealer will not give satisfaction.

He came over today and we put on a new AE tire. The old one looked fine to me! No cupping, not near the wear bars yet. I told him don't throw it away, when this is all over you have proof the tire was good.

I couldn't check rotors, I check them on the bike. Don't have a truing stand here.
My old bike were .20 out when I checked that front end, only the right one.

He has no paperwork so far. Told him to get a print out tues when he goes back.
Strange they didn't provide paper of work done up to now!
I'm beginning to wonder about him! He's OLD and missing a few penguins like a lot of us!
LOL

[bobrk1]

my 22 heritage  has same  thing 

[HogMike]

The 2023 ultra limited goes to the dealership this morning.
I'm told they have a zoom call set up with someone at the factory.
I would think that the customer would be involved with that conversation, not just someone in the service department at the dealership.
My friend is not interested in BUYING new rotors, OR a new front tire to MAYBE solve the problem, for a bike under warranty.

My 2017 had a similar problem with the front wheel. After getting HD customer service involved, new wheel, new rotors, plus all the hardware to go with it was installed. My front wheel on the 2017 was made in Australia. The 2023 wheel was made in China. I'm not sure this makes any difference as both looked to be quality castings and machine work.

I'll be interested to see what the outcome will be.

 

You cannot see attachments on this board.

[HogMike]

Got a call from my friend this morning about the issues with his bike "surging" on low speed braking coming to a stop.

After the dealership had him change the front tire and checking the runout on the rotors and suggesting he purchase 2 new rotors ($1200 installed) that he passed on, he asked what the runout was on the REAR rotor.
Well, it seems they never checked the rear! Yup, out of specs.

He got the bike back yesterday with the new rear rotor and all is good!
Too many trips to the dealership got him frustrated. He has NO paperwork on the work performed. Dealer told him they have it on the computer. I would want a printout of everything. But, that's just me.

We have a scheduled ride tomorrow and it will be a good test to see if everything is good.
 

[fbn ent]

 

[Hossamania]

Is the brake system on that bike an interlocking system?

[HogMike]

Is the brake system on that bike an interlocking system?

Yes, I think HD calls it a "linked" system. It's supposed be be non-linked below about 20 mph, I believe.
I was told that it "un-links" to prevent the front from engaging in slow speeds while turning sharp.
Keeps you from falling over!
LOL

[capn]

Boy those bean counters and designers have ruined a good motorcycle company. Glad I got old and went back to a shovel and evo.

[Fugawee]

2023 FLHTK with a Brake System issue...and the Dealer suggests that He purchase and replace two New Rotors to the tune of around 1200 bucks?
That statement wouldn't have sat too well with Me.

[HogMike]

2023 FLHTK with a Brake System issue...and the Dealer suggests that He purchase and replace two New Rotors to the tune of around 1200 bucks?
That statement wouldn't have sat too well with Me.

Didn't sit well with him either, but this is a family site so I can't repeat what he said.

[tomcat64]

Is the brake system on that bike an interlocking system?

the brakes work independently unless the system detects a "panic braking" situation.. and also under 35MPH..

[calif phil]

Someone charging $1200 to replace 2 rotors should be in jail.   

[Hossamania]

Someone charging $1200 to replace 2 rotors should be in jail.   

Agreed

[HogMike]

My buddies 2023 Limited brake issues seemed to have been corrected......ALMOST!

The dealership decided that the rear rotor was at the runout limit spec.
It was replaced along with new brake pads.
He reports that the jerking motion while stopping has gotten better but the issue is still there.

At least now he has a "paper trail" of an issue with the brakes that can be used for any future problems.

I'm going to ride the bike to compare with my cvo with NO brake issues and my 2016 that had the major brake issues.
We'll get it up on the lift, check the run out on all 3 discs. Check thickness, etc etc. That should eliminate the mechanical part of the system.

The "RDRS" system HD uses on this bike is suspect if all else looks good.
I don't know if the dealership checked any of this as it's not in his paperwork.

I don't ride behind him on our rides, but one of the others does. Told him "don't get too close in town! LOL 

 

[Deye76]

Many M8 softail owners have had issues with warped rotors. The low bidder got the contract, again. If replacing rotors on your dime, many aftermarket are a better alternative than going with same HD inferior ones. 

[IronButt70]

I fought with HD about rotors and calipers on my 17 ABS softail. The rear caliper was not fully releasing. It would get so hot it burnt a rotor imprint on my arm while trying to release the caliper. I wanted both replaced. HD said everything was in spect and working as designed. The dealer service manger agreed with me and replaced both. Told me he would take care of it despite what the mothership said. Told me later that the caliper was defective. Front rotor warped on a trip to Sturgis. Took a rubber mallet to it and got home. Replaced both with floating rotors. No more issues but rear rotor was still hot to the touch. Just rebuilt both calipers this year. Both rotors are now only warm to the touch after 100+ hiway miles.

[FLSTFIDave]

Three times the front rotors were replaced by the motor company on my 2019.  About 8000 miles and they would be warped. It was a fight the second time, and a battle the third time.  Harley kept changing the specs for what was warped.  Don't remember the numbers off the top of my head but I think is was 4 thousands moved to 6 then 8.

[JSD]

What is the brand on the rotors. Sunnen ?

[HogMike]

Three times the front rotors were replaced by the motor company on my 2019.  About 8000 miles and they would be warped. It was a fight the second time, and a battle the third time.  Harley kept changing the specs for what was warped.  Don't remember the numbers off the top of my head but I think is was 4 thousands moved to 6 then 8.

About the same with my 2019 cvo front brakes.
3 times with rotors. Last time is was 3 miles back to my house.
I put it on the lift, hooked up a dial indicator, made a video to show the dealer.
Contacted HD and they ended up replacing wheel, rotor's bearings and assorted hardware. It was a poorly machined wheel mount posts.

The kicker was when I first got the bike we were on a long road trip and I had to make a tight, off camber real slow turn. The brakes grabbed and I did a heavy foot plant and twisted my ankle pretty bad. The pulse of the brakes caused the bike to lurch and release and put you on the ground. Not a fun trip.

[HogMike]

Road with crutches from Santa Cruz to San Diego.
Got lots if strange looks on the road!

[Hilly13]

Putting the foot down to hold these things up on the move hurts....a lot, you do it instinctively but man!

[HogMike]

You cannot see attachments on this board.

You cannot see attachments on this board.

Yup, takes a while to heal also!

Especially the older you get. LOL

[FLSTFIDave]

Those hard foot plants really hurt.  That's one heck of a bruise.

[motorhogman]

Guess HD is slow in figuring things out again.. Or just to cheap to fix another problem they have known about for decades..  The front rotors were replaced under warranty on my 2001 FLHT a couple of times. If I recall the first set was under 10,000 mi.. Then they were replaced again under the ESP I had. Now I'm running rotors front and rear from Summit Racing motor sports.   About 7 years and maybe 30,000 mi so far and still working like they should. They were also about half the price of the OEM ones.