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Another EVO with low oil pressure

Started by SixShooter14, December 08, 2023, 07:30:20 PM

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jsachs1, PkgMan and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

SixShooter14

Quote from: JSD on January 09, 2024, 10:09:21 PMIsn't Ultima made in China.
Also the retaining clips are pressed so the inside diameter of clip has a slight bevel as KD said. You can feel it on your finger nail. Sharp edge faces away from flywheel to seat against the groove in pinion shaft . As you say you popped it twice check the pinion shaft groove
yep, I can't see the bevel but I can feel it catching the callouses on my fingers. I marked the clip to put the sharp edge out.
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, HSR42, 10:1, EVL3010, 2000i
'21 Road Glide Special stock 114

SixShooter14

Figured I'd drop in with an update.
Weather finally warmed up enough so my garage is above freezing with the heaters on.
I'm in the process of removing the engine and got the primary open and found one of the alternator rotor magnets stuck to the stator. So that's nice.

Getting a new rotor, but had a quick thought.
Has anyone successfully re-glued a magnet back in place? some sort of epoxy or something?... was just a slow winter time curiosity.
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, HSR42, 10:1, EVL3010, 2000i
'21 Road Glide Special stock 114

jls 64

js

FSG

it's not something I'd do   :SM:

SixShooter14

Those are the answers I expected. I got my new rotor in last week.

Also, got the engine out and on the bench. Next time the temp gets above freezing, I'll work on that oil pump shaft/gear.
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, HSR42, 10:1, EVL3010, 2000i
'21 Road Glide Special stock 114

thumper 823

Supposedly,  a Gerotor oil pump will filter from the pressure side.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

kink04fxd

Quote from: SixShooter14 on January 23, 2024, 02:19:14 PMFigured I'd drop in with an update.
Weather finally warmed up enough so my garage is above freezing with the heaters on.
I'm in the process of removing the engine and got the primary open and found one of the alternator rotor magnets stuck to the stator. So that's nice.

Getting a new rotor, but had a quick thought.
Has anyone successfully re-glued a magnet back in place? some sort of epoxy or something?... was just a slow winter time curiosity.
I glued one my shovel several years ago. Holding up just fine. Probably over 30,000 plus miles.
2000 FLHTCI (now carb)<br />1982 FLH

SixShooter14

An update for ya'll
Took a little bit of work, but I got the engine reinstalled about 2 weeks ago. Whew, next time she comes out, I'm going to have a table lift and grab a friend for some assistance.

Spent last weekend installing the primary and routing oil lines.

Spent yesterday on the intake and exhaust and today got the gas tank back on, refilled all the fluids, installed a new battery, and primed the new oil pump... Finally fired her up. No issues, cranked over about 3 times and fired off. Oil pressure sitting around 10-15psi at idle. Supposed to be nice Tuesday and Wednesday. Hopefully I can get out and get everything warmed up and check for leaks and retorques.
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, HSR42, 10:1, EVL3010, 2000i
'21 Road Glide Special stock 114

SixShooter14

ahh...nuts.

Fired her up today to ride to work and after about a minute some oil started dripping from the supply hose. Wasn't quite a stream, but was a steady 1 or 2 drips per second.... Shut her down and wiped it clean, it's coming from under the hose around the barb fitting. Gonna have to get some new oil lines.
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, HSR42, 10:1, EVL3010, 2000i
'21 Road Glide Special stock 114

Deye76

Use this, way better than auto parts hose. Will withstand high temperatures.
https://www.eastwood.com/derale-3-8-i-d-x-25-hi-temp-oil-hose-13017.html
East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

Dan89flstc

April 03, 2024, 06:31:05 AM #60 Last Edit: April 03, 2024, 06:39:24 AM by Dan89flstc
SAE J30R7 is commonly available in most auto parts stores and has worked fine on my Softail EVO for many years.

A little harder to find, oil hose good to 300 degrees f:

SAE J30R9.

SAE J1019.
US Navy Veteran
A&P Mechanic

SixShooter14

April 14, 2024, 01:58:46 PM #61 Last Edit: April 14, 2024, 02:04:51 PM by SixShooter14
slowly getting there... Got the new oil line back on and no more leaks.

Trouble now is I get a small knock just off idle... It sounds fine when idling slow or with just the starter spinning. But the minute I add a touch of throttle it starts knocking (I believe from the front).... I checked the pushrod adjustment a couple times now and they are adjusted properly.

I did look at the pushrods and lifters when I had the engine out and didn't notice any damage, but I didn't try pressing on the lifter pistons to see how they bleed down. But while adjusting, they seemed to bleed down fine after 10-15 minutes. Could it be one is not holding pressure or needs fully cleaned?

Other thought is maybe the compensator is loose, bad, or not installed correctly?

ETA: Maybe the comp. nut is bottoming out due to the new alternator rotor (maybe it's a touch thinner than previous?
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, HSR42, 10:1, EVL3010, 2000i
'21 Road Glide Special stock 114

SixShooter14

Quote from: SixShooter14 on April 14, 2024, 01:58:46 PMslowly getting there... Got the new oil line back on and no more leaks.

Trouble now is I get a small knock just off idle... It sounds fine when idling slow or with just the starter spinning. But the minute I add a touch of throttle it starts knocking (I believe from the front).... I checked the pushrod adjustment a couple times now and they are adjusted properly.

I did look at the pushrods and lifters when I had the engine out and didn't notice any damage, but I didn't try pressing on the lifter pistons to see how they bleed down. But while adjusting, they seemed to bleed down fine after 10-15 minutes. Could it be one is not holding pressure or needs fully cleaned?

Other thought is maybe the compensator is loose, bad, or not installed correctly?

ETA: Maybe the comp. nut is bottoming out due to the new alternator rotor (maybe it's a touch thinner than previous?
hmm... Pulled the inspection cover and compensator doesn't budge in either direction. No movement at all and chain has right around 3/4" give in it.

Thinking maybe at least 1 lifter is either no-bueno or lost it's prime when I jacked around with the oil leak. It took a couple tries to get the oil to maintain it's prime overnight with the leak I mentioned earlier. A couple times as I was turning the engine over with the starter, I know the gauge was showing 0 and tappet screen was empty (tells me the lifters weren't getting oil) So they absolutely may have pumped out and not been able to refill.


Anyone have advice on making sure the lifters are primed now that everything is together?
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, HSR42, 10:1, EVL3010, 2000i
'21 Road Glide Special stock 114

kd

April 14, 2024, 09:28:34 PM #63 Last Edit: April 14, 2024, 09:33:14 PM by kd
I am sure you have heard it said here that the hydraulic lifter is the best known oil filter there is.  Considering the type of engine failure that sent you down this path, I would think it's very possible that you have a contaminated lifter body.  You had a lot of metal fines go through your oil galleries, lines and tank.  It's almost impossible to clear that from the system 100%. Especially the oil tank baffles. Most that know this replace the tank rather than trying the impossible - cleaning it well enough.

Not actually hearing the "knock" but going by your description I would be inclined to pull the lifters, disassemble them on a clean white towel, surgically clean them, prime them in a jar with vacuum and retest them.  DO NOT use an oil squirt can to prime them.  There's a better chance than not that you will reintroduce even 1 tiny spec of dirt that will cause a contamination failure.
KD

SixShooter14

Quote from: kd on April 14, 2024, 09:28:34 PMI am sure you have heard it said here that the hydraulic lifter is the best known oil filter there is.  Considering the type of engine failure that sent you down this path, I would think it's very possible that you have a contaminated lifter body.  You had a lot of metal fines go through your oil galleries, lines and tank.  It's almost impossible to clear that from the system 100%. Especially the oil tank baffles. Most that know this replace the tank rather than trying the impossible - cleaning it well enough.

Not actually hearing the "knock" but going by your description I would be inclined to pull the lifters, disassemble them on a clean white towel, surgically clean them, prime them in a jar with vacuum and retest them.  DO NOT use an oil squirt can to prime them.  There's a better chance than not that you will reintroduce even 1 tiny spec of dirt that will cause a contamination failure.
That's kinda what I was thinking too. Definitely could have been a spec of debris introduced at some point of the process.
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, HSR42, 10:1, EVL3010, 2000i
'21 Road Glide Special stock 114

SixShooter14

April 16, 2024, 08:26:32 AM #65 Last Edit: April 16, 2024, 11:29:18 AM by SixShooter14
I decided to check the primary chain tension and was able to turn the sprocket a small bit. Rocking forward and back. It wasn't loose, but with a little pressure it definitely turned. The spring cup was tight

I pulled the primary cover and noticed that the turning I was getting was the comp. sprocket ramps contacting fore and aft.

I'm thinking the compensator nut may be bottoming out or bound up on something and not getting full pressure. I'm going to give it a thorough cleaning try re-installing with proper torque and measure the stack depth. (unfortunately, I didn't measure the stack prior to removal)


Here's the view from the rear prior to removing the nut.
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'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, HSR42, 10:1, EVL3010, 2000i
'21 Road Glide Special stock 114

FSG

April 16, 2024, 01:13:02 PM #66 Last Edit: April 16, 2024, 01:17:23 PM by FSG
cut 50 thou of the nut while you have the comp apart





JSD


FSG


SixShooter14

yep, taking .050" off the nut tomorrow to make sure it's not bottoming out. And I've got the .055" shim and a .020" shim to align the front/rear sprockets as needed.
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, HSR42, 10:1, EVL3010, 2000i
'21 Road Glide Special stock 114

SixShooter14

'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, HSR42, 10:1, EVL3010, 2000i
'21 Road Glide Special stock 114

FSG

a good pic is worth a 1000 words   :SM:

SixShooter14

Quote from: FSG on April 16, 2024, 09:25:32 PMa good pic is worth a 1000 words   :SM:
Speaking of pictures...I measured the old vs. new rotor and found the below numbers.
When I installed the new rotor a couple weeks ago, I left the shim in and therefore the sprocket would have been 0.020" more outboard than the previous rotor..... Would that have been enough to cause the knocking I was hearing? or is it still more likely tied to the comp either being too little torque or the nut bottoming out?

Regardless, I'm going to shorten the comp nut today. Then I'll reinstall, torque properly, and make doubly sure the sprocket alignments is correct.

You cannot see attachments on this board.
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, HSR42, 10:1, EVL3010, 2000i
'21 Road Glide Special stock 114

SixShooter14

May 13, 2024, 07:10:33 PM #73 Last Edit: May 13, 2024, 07:21:54 PM by SixShooter14
Alright folks... still chasing oil pump issues.

The new S&S pump is not keeping it's prime. I can pull the check ball and fill it with oil, then it'll pump up the tappet screen and build pressure. I run it for 4 or 5 minutes varying rpm 1-3k and it keeps pressure (though it seems low IMHO, about 3-15psi)

Then after I shut it down for a few minutes and come back and there's no pressure at all and the tappet screen is empty.


What do y'all think? a poorly aligned gasket letting oil leak down? I don't believe I'm getting any external leaking oil. Should I go back in and check the gaskets and keys? Oh, and fwiw I also tried to remove the pressure relief piston and had no luck. Little magnet that I used for the check ball would not lift it out.
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, HSR42, 10:1, EVL3010, 2000i
'21 Road Glide Special stock 114

SixShooter14

Well hell, of course I used the wrong hole...

A Caution note in the S&S instructions:
QuoteBottom-mount oil supply line fitting is not recommended for Harley-Davidson® Dyna® or Road King® models with oil tank below
transmission because of possibility of cavitation or air lock occurring during oil changes.


Anyone think maybe this might be the issue with it not building or keeping pressure/flow?
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, HSR42, 10:1, EVL3010, 2000i
'21 Road Glide Special stock 114