Grudge Box, cruise won't engage at 6th gear

[ThomasT]

New Baker Grudge box added in the fall.  Cruise stopped working "most of the time" and I just isolated yesterday that it still engages at 5th gear, but not 6th when I really need it most.

2022 Harley Tri Glide Ultra

[rigidthumper]

Need to figure out how to recalibrate your BCM for the RPM difference @ speed. It used to be as simple as changing the vehicle speed sensor (VSS) data in the map with TTS or PowerVision, but HD quit using a VSS with the 2021 touring models. Might be worth a call to Baker to see if they have any options.

[kd]

The Baker instructions that would have been sent with the transmission discuss the need to introduce your motorcycle to the new Grudgebox ratios if you want cruise control. You can go to their website for more information if you need to.

The GrudgeBox transmission is 250 RPM overdrive in 6th gear.  If your cruise will engage in 5th gear, the system is working.  For now while waiting to remedy it (or ever if you wish) set cruise in 5th gear and shift without the clutch into 6th.  By not disengaging the clutch with the clutch lever, you trick cruise into staying engaged.

Try a search on this site.  IIRC Ohio HD has posted the gear ratio you may need.  The input "codes" can depend on the tuning device you use.

[Ohio HD]

Try a search on this site.  IIRC Ohio HD has posted the gear ratio you may need.  The input "codes" can depend on the tuning device you use.

The tool that Dyno Jet sent to me makes a calculation based on the two transmissions gear ratio differences, and also against the MAP gear ratios for that bike. Not all MAP gear ratios are the same for an OEM six speed, I've seen them change by different year bikes. So unless he has a PV or TTS now, I don't know how you would adjust the ratios and hopefully the speedometer to match the GB transmission.

This is what the spreadsheet looks like from Dyno Jet. I assume this would work for TTS as well, but I don't know that for a fact.

[ThomasT]

The input "codes" can depend on the tuning device you use.

I have a Vance and Hines FP4.  Do you know if this is capable of this type of tuning?

[FXDBI]

The input "codes" can depend on the tuning device you use.

I have a Vance and Hines FP4.  Do you know if this is capable of this type of tuning?

You really need to contact Vance&Hines and ask them.  Bob

[ThomasT]

You really need to contact Vance&Hines and ask them.  Bob

THanks.  I've been trying, and they aren't responding, but I haven't been persistent... yet

[ThomasT]

If your cruise will engage in 5th gear, the system is working.  For now while waiting to remedy it (or ever if you wish) set cruise in 5th gear and shift without the clutch into 6th.  By not disengaging the clutch with the clutch lever, you trick cruise into staying engaged.

Thanks, but after reading, I tried this today, and couldn't shift to 6th without the clutch...  Darn...

[kd]

If your cruise will engage in 5th gear, the system is working.  For now while waiting to remedy it (or ever if you wish) set cruise in 5th gear and shift without the clutch into 6th.  By not disengaging the clutch with the clutch lever, you trick cruise into staying engaged.

Thanks, but after reading, I tried this today, and couldn't shift to 6th without the clutch...  Darn...
While under power (in 5th gear) the torque is keeping the transmission teeth tightly engaged. To get it to shift you need to get that pressure to release and allow the shift to occur.  When you want to shift, apply good upward pressure to the shifter while under power and you will see it stays engaged in 5th gear. quickly back off the throttle and back on and you will be amazed that as the drive pressure comes off the teeth in 5th gear the upward force of your foot on the shifter allows the transmission to release 5th gear and subsequently slide into 6th gear. 

This occurs naturally and the trick for a smooth transition is to release the throttle (while under shifting pressure of acceleration) and reapply the throttle quickly.  Kinda off / on motion.  Your foot pressure will  do the shift and your wrist makes it happen.   Once you get the wrist timing down it can feel like a regular shift.  If your cruise is engaged in 5th gear the ECM and Cruise relationship is tricked into staying engaged even though the gear ratio is off. 

BTW, this is the way a speed shifter device works.  There is an engine kill mechanism to momentarily interrupt the ignition for a fraction of a second.  This releases the gear teeth contactvband the shift device moves the lever at lightening speed into the next gear.  You can do this manually the way I described.

[Hossamania]

Once you roll off power to speed shift, doesn't that disengage the cruise control?

[kd]

Once you roll off power to speed shift, doesn't that disengage the cruise control?

No. You aren't effectively changing the way the cruise reacts.  The power is on and you simply momentarily break the "pull" in 5th (not decel) and replace it by continuing with the next gear (6th) but not activating the clutch "cancel" feature.  This is in fact mimicking reaching cruise the set cruise speed when the drive train unloads and coasts on a down hill grade at speed. 

For example, when I installed my GrudgeBox and removed the OEM 6 spd the 6th gear ratio became 250 rpm overdrive from the OEM direct drive.  I didn't have the means to change the ECM tune information to correct the ratios.  The ECM couldn't match the ratio for cruise in 6th gear so the light and cruise didn't work.  Without the light the door is closed on the cruise operation.  In 5th gear however the ratios are close enough that the ECM allows cruise to work.  Shifting clutchless quickly from 5th to 6th when the light is on for some reason doesn't cancel the cruise because the clutch activation is not interrupting and "cancelling"  the cruise demand.  If at any time in any gear you activate the clutch, it cancels cruise totally and has to be reactivated manually to get back in.  Again, it doesn't recognize the 6th gear ratio If deactivated and it won't "pause" and then resume by toggling the resume feature.  you have to go back to 5th and re-shift it into 6th.

[Hossamania]

I understand now, you are accelerating past the set speed, then releasing the throttle allowing the bike to coast, effectively unloading the clutch for the shift.

[kd]

I understand now, you are accelerating past the set speed, then releasing the throttle allowing the bike to coast, effectively unloading the clutch for the shift.

Unloading the "transmission".  You keep your fingers off the clutch lever.  When the gears unload the shift dog unloads and can move the gear you're in out and the next gear into place while the driveline is still free of load.  Truck drivers do it all day long and often only step on the clutch when at a stop sign or light. If you listen to them shifting up the gears you can here the audible "click" going into the next gear as opposed to with a clutch and some lag time. 

[nibroc]

interesting

[Hossamania]

I understand now, you are accelerating past the set speed, then releasing the throttle allowing the bike to coast, effectively unloading the clutch for the shift.

Unloading the "transmission".  You keep your fingers off the clutch lever.  When the gears unload the shift dog unloads and can move the gear you're in out and the next gear into place while the driveline is still free of load.  Truck drivers do it all day long and often only step on the clutch when at a stop sign or light. If you listen to them shifting up the gears you can here the audible "click" going into the next gear as opposed to with a clutch and some lag time. 

Correct, I meant transmission.

[ThomasT]

Unloading the "transmission".  You keep your fingers off the clutch lever.  When the gears unload the shift dog unloads and can move the gear you're in out and the next gear into place while the driveline is still free of load.  Truck drivers do it all day long and often only step on the clutch when at a stop sign or light. If you listen to them shifting up the gears you can here the audible "click" going into the next gear as opposed to with a clutch and some lag time. 

Interesting.  I was able to shift using this method, but unfortunately the cruise still disengaged.

Vance and Hines did get back to me, and says they can help me adjust the gear ratios, though it's not something I can do myself.  Basically it sounds like they can send me a patched MAP.

[ThomasT]

Try a search on this site.  IIRC Ohio HD has posted the gear ratio you may need.  The input "codes" can depend on the tuning device you use.

The tool that Dyno Jet sent to me makes a calculation based on the two transmissions gear ratio differences, and also against the MAP gear ratios for that bike. Not all MAP gear ratios are the same for an OEM six speed, I've seen them change by different year bikes. So unless he has a PV or TTS now, I don't know how you would adjust the ratios and hopefully the speedometer to match the GB transmission.
 

I had an FP4, and it wouldn't make this change.  I replaced it with a PV4 from Dyno, which supposedly will do this, but I cannot seem to find where to put in these calculations.

[ThomasT]

Try a search on this site.  IIRC Ohio HD has posted the gear ratio you may need.  The input "codes" can depend on the tuning device you use.

The tool that Dyno Jet sent to me makes a calculation based on the two transmissions gear ratio differences, and also against the MAP gear ratios for that bike. Not all MAP gear ratios are the same for an OEM six speed, I've seen them change by different year bikes. So unless he has a PV or TTS now, I don't know how you would adjust the ratios and hopefully the speedometer to match the GB transmission.

This is what the spreadsheet looks like from Dyno Jet. I assume this would work for TTS as well, but I don't know that for a fact.

My FP4 couldn't take these changes.  I've changed to a Powervision4, and so far have not found where in the software to do this. 

I've been waiting a few days now for Dyno to answer a tech support request on it.  SLOW....