114 M8 with S&S 475 cam with stock exhaust

[pauly]

Here's the deal,
Some of you will feel I have rocks in my head but that's cool - maybe I do.

I want my 114 ultra to sound a bit more like a Harley, but I actually like the lack of noise from the stock exhaust and air filter. This is the first quiet bike I've had and im enjoying it.
If I put an S&S 475 cam in, and give it a good tune, will there be any major issues you can think of? (Besides not extracting all the power I could from the engine)

Thanks
Pauly

[Hilly13]

Have heard a cammed SE110 with stock Breakout mufflers, you could definitely tell it wasn't stock but that's a completely different exhaust system to what you have, I don't think you mad Pauly 😁

[pauly]

Haha thanks Hilly. Sometimes I wonder myself!

I have time to ponder as I've still got 12 months of warranty to go.

Pauly

Have heard a cammed SE110 with stock Breakout mufflers, you could definitely tell it wasn't stock but that's a completely different exhaust system to what you have, I don't think you mad Pauly 😁

[Hossamania]

Fuel Moto tests mentioned that the 475 is a bit soft on the low end, but very good mid and upper rpm performance. Your stock mufflers may help that a bit.
You should have no issues using that cam with a good tune.
I too can appreciate a quiet bike. I ran the stock exhaust for a couple years on the TC Ultra, it was a nice change. The slip-on mufflers I eventually installed are not obnoxiously loud either, I like it.

[pauly]

Although I love the idle sound of the s&s 475, I'm a bit hesitant as many reviews say the bottom end looses its smoothness and predictability. As a matter of fact, one reviewer said he replaced the 475 after a week due to his wife complaining about how rough it was at low speed! I'm now looking at the Andrew's 460 as that seems to provide a bit more in the 'fun' zone for me (low rev torque). As always, I'd love to hear any advice or opinions to help refine my choice here.

Steve Cole from Mastertune was good enough to reply to a couple of my emails recently. I had concerns about effecting the Rdrs system etc, and he assures me it won't, if I do not change the "torque" settings. That's cool, however I do wonder about the map to start with, and whether it will have those settings modified from stock.
My hope is that if I choose my year, and model of bike (when selecting the map to start with), that the default TTS map will be very close to stock timing/ve/idle etc etc. from there I can modify the map for the new cam. does anyone know if that is correct?

Thanks
Pauly

[rigidthumper]

TTS tuning software has a table called "Cam Selector", where you can change the setting for whichever cam you use.
You cannot view this attachment.
There is also an algorithm in the Data Master program that measures MAP pressures, helping you fine tune the cam setting. This is from a TTS175 cam, and you can see the break @ 4, so that is where I set the IVO in the software.
You cannot view this attachment.
The AP465B would be my choice of the Andrews 

[pauly]

Thanks Rigidthumper,
Yes I have used the cam selector before.

I'll add the AP465B to the list!

Pauly

[pauly]

I forgot to ask, Why would the AP465B be your choice?

I'm really hoping for some practical advice from anyone as I want a torque came, with a lumpy idle, but am unsure. I was happy with my Andrew's 48h on the Twinkie.

Thanks
Pauly

[Hossamania]

A friend runs the S&S 465 in his 114. It sounds good, but more importantly, it runs really well. Very good low end power, very good mid range power, pulls well to the top but gives up a bit there compared to cams built for top end pull. Top end pull doesn't help when running two up down the road.

[Hilly13]

Pauly, "The Andrews 465B cam produces great torque from 1200-5600rpm"
That pretty much has you covered I reckon.

[Hossamania]

I'm assuming you read thru this a couple times?

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,119315.0.html

[pauly]

Sure have!
Still...they all seem so close... I'm leaning towards the s&s, mainly because I like what they make. The Andrew's (which is not in that shootout) is also a contender as I was very happy with the 48h cams in my twin cam... but that was so long ago, and there are so many others now.
One thing that worries me about the s&s is that there are a lot of reviews that say it"s crap down low. I'm imagining that's because their particular tune is not quite right, but maybe it's the cam?

Thanks
Pauly

[Hossamania]

Sure have!
Still...they all seem so close... I'm leaning towards the s&s, mainly because I like what they make. The Andrew's (which is not in that shootout) is also a contender as I was very happy with the 48h cams in my twin cam... but that was so long ago, and there are so many others now.
One thing that worries me about the s&s is that there are a lot of reviews that say it"s crap down low. I'm imagining that's because their particular tune is not quite right, but maybe it's the cam?

Thanks
Pauly

I'm assuming you're talking about the 475, not the 465? My friend has no complaints about power down low with the 465.

[Hossamania]

The Woods 22XE seems to meet your goals. The 22XD probably would as well, and FM says it has a nice nasty cadence at idle and just off idle, though gives up a bit of low end torque to the XE. That is probably relative and inconsequential, as it will be much more than your current stock setup.

[rigidthumper]

Any M8 cam designed to have "lope" @ idle can be less smooth than stock/SE or "TQ" cams off idle.
The AP465B has moderate lope while still being smooth, and better curve off idle than the S&S475. The AP464 or TTS100 are as smooth as stock, with better TQ/HP than stock. CR480MT has good lope, similar to the AP485, or the Star 30/30. All have great mid range. Compromises must be made- decide what's more important.

[pauly]

Thanks for the advice,
Compromises? We don't need no stinkin' compromises!
(He says wishfully)

Pauly

[Hossamania]

There is no perfect cam.

Now if you were to put a little extra squeeze on that 475...

[Deye76]

Whenever I'm asked about a "lumpy idle I say if that's what you want get a Shovelhead and turn the idle down to 750 RPM.

[Hossamania]

Whenever I'm asked about a "lumpy idle I say if that's what you want get a Shovelhead and turn the idle down to 750 RPM.

And then don't complain that it coughs every time you turn the throttle.

[Buglet]

  If you have your shovelhead set up right and know it there no reason why it should cough. Today have the people cannot even take off smooth with anything that has a carburetor. That one reason they had to go to FI. This way people have one less thing to think about.   

[Hossamania]

Form over function.
Sound over performance.

[cheech]

Today have the people cannot even take off smooth with anything that has a carburetor. That one reason they had to go to FI.

Do Tell. 

[Deye76]

F.I. was introduced as a way to comply with the EPA, not because riders couldn't leave smoothly.

[pauly]

Hi again,

Right - I think I'm getting closer to a decision - I'm thinking the Wood performance WM8-22xe cam, however I have one concern.
Assuming I develop a good tune (I'm confident), can some of you smart guys please give your opinion on how this cam will perform with the stock Harley exhausts. Its a 23 FLHTK. I'm aware that I wont get the best out of the cam with stock exhausts, but am concerned that maybe this cam needs a more open setup (which I wont be doing), and may actually perform worse than stock. Any input appreciated as I haven't got a clue.

Thanks
Pauly

[rigidthumper]

My testing showed the cat not having tremendous affect below 4500 RPM. The restriction offered by the stock exhaust will lower the peak torque, and the peak HP, but you will feel an improvement. To quantify that, have a base run done, now, just to see where you are numbers/curve, and a post mod/tune run done to see where you end up. If you remove the cat, the sound level will increase, even with the stock mufflers.
Have you looked at the cam testing Dave from JDS Cycle did?
LINK

[harpwrench]

My brother put a 475 in a 2020 RK 107 with the stock mufflers. He did decat the pipe. Mission accomplished, it sounded good and ran nice. I don't see why a 114 wouldn't be even better.

[pauly]

Hi Rigidthumper,
Geeze that guy sure put in some time didn't he! So much good information around and (again) I got a little more by watching it. Thanks.
I'm still thinking the Woods performance XE cam, so if anyone has advice about using that with stock exhausts, please holler!

Thanks
Pauly