Bolt in cam for Gen 2 117

[08flstf]

Been trying to find out as much as I can on different cams for the newer 24 117's. Whatched endless youtube videos (lol) and heard different people such as Moonshine Harley say that the newer heads flow enough better that they can take advantage of bigger tb's and intake manifolds as well as higher lift cams. Zippers new "bolt in" cam for the 24's is the RS528 which is .530 lift while Harley's own stage 2 bolt in cam is .511 lift. Considering that, I was wondering what anyones thoughts would be on the Cycle Rama 515. Anyone here have any experience with this cam? Regardless of cam choice I'll be running a free breathing AC and a 2 into 1 exhaust.Probably won't be able to do this before spring as I'll be purchasing one or two items at a time until I get everything together.

[Hilly13]

The CR 485 seems decent in a lot of 117's, 139 Horsepower and 139 Torque from bolt on parts, the CR515 I thought was more for bigger cubes, mad stuff these M8's can produce with parts and tune.
Those dyno guys have a few charts to check out and APE downunder are getting some decent packages together, dunno about your specific engine but cubes is cubes even if your heads flow better than last year's model.

[Ohio HD]

The OP has a Gen 2 M8, so there are only a few choices for cams.

He mentioned what is out there right now. That is unless there's some others I haven't come across yet.

[Ohio HD]

This is the two Zippers Gen 2 cams.

[Hilly13]

Out of my depth obviously, didn't realise the gen2 ment a physical difference in the shaft.

Be following to learn more obviously, saw a chart for the 528 133T 125HP but no other parts info.

[Ohio HD]

I don't know if there is an actual fit-up difference, but I'd say not. Just that these cams are supposed to take advantage of the Gen 2 setup. It would be interesting to see other cams in a Gen 2 on a dyno.

[08flstf]

Thanks for the replies. Here's a video Moonshine did comparing 8 different cams in a 24 but they didn't test the Zippers cam. I'm just trying to figure out if it would be worth waiting for any new cams to come out or try something already out with a little higher lift, or just stick with one of the tried and true cams that have already been out for a while.                                     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUttKiDaLME

[Ohio HD]

Pretty interesting comparison. Other than a few HP or torque they're all pretty close. I doubt under riding conditions that there would be much difference felt on the bike.

[Hilly13]

Do they refer to this engine as centre cooled?

[08flstf]

Yes this is the center cooled engine.

[Hilly13]

Yes this is the center cooled engine.

Ok, I'm catching up slowly, I won't link it but if you go onto bookface and look up Alpha Performance Engines they have posted a chart from someone stateside that had the CR515 in a centre cooled 117, um, good numbers, instant torque, you have a good platform to build on that's for sure.

Edit, I can't find it now, I'm thinking I may have got my wires crossed, happening a bit of late.

[FLSTFIDave]

Do they refer to this engine as centre cooled?

I have not seen where they call it center cooled.  Maybe they do because the radiator is in the center instead of in lowers.

The coolant is in the radiator on the front lower part of the frame, Coolant comes out of the left side water pump to the rear cylinder head first.  Harley enplanes its because it get hotter than the front head due to less air over the cylinder head.  The coolant enters the rear of the head, goes  around the exhaust valve area as its the hottest. Then it exits the head on the front side and goes into the rear of the front head.  Again it goes around the exhaust valves and exits the front of the head.  It goes down to the right side of the radiator.  Coolant flows right to left through the radiator. There is an expansion tank on the left side frame rail above the water pump and radiator.

This first came out on the 2023.5 CVO bikes.  Personal opinion after 20K miles on  mine, it runs a little cooler than the previous twin cooled.

[rigidthumper]

Center cooled is the designation from the SE Tuner, as the new 117/121(VVT & ST) use a different ECM map configuration than oil cooled and twin cooled 107/114/117s.

[Deye76]

Center cooled is the designation from the SE Tuner, as the new 117/121(VVT & ST) use a different ECM map configuration than oil cooled and twin cooled 107/114/117s.

So it's really not different cooling, just a different map?

[rigidthumper]

It is different coolant flow, for the different heads.

[FLSTFIDave]

Center cooled is the designation from the SE Tuner, as the new 117/121(VVT & ST) use a different ECM map configuration than oil cooled and twin cooled 107/114/117s.

So it's really not different cooling, just a different map?

The coolant flow is different as I posted.  The heads are also different, they flow air much better.  Intake port shape is a bit different also.

Interesting the tuner calls it center flow.

[08flstf]

I was told at a dealer it's called center cooled for the reason you mentioned, because now it's one radiator in the center vs two smaller ones with one on each side.

[Hilly13]

I was told at a dealer it's called center cooled for the reason you mentioned, because now it's one radiator in the center vs two smaller ones with one on each side.

Just a side thought, how do you tune this modern marvel if you do cam it?

[rigidthumper]

SE tuner if you are trying to keep/use SE parts for warranty purposes. Replacement ECMs are available now, I expect the usual legacy (flash) tuners to come online early 2025.

[Hilly13]

Copy that, thanks 👍

[08flstf]

Spoke with someone at Fuel Moto yesterday (didn't get his name) and was told they've been testing cams for the new 117's and that I should wait a bit as there should be some new cams coming out soon. For now I've got a pipe and breather ordered, so I'll settle for a stage 1 and hopefully by spring there might be some more options. Hopefully by then a powervision tuner will be available as well.

[speedzter]

It appears the Gen 1 Cams can work well in the Gen 2 (center cooled) engine.
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15jQqJDZTG/

For those without FB , it is an APE/CR485 fitted to a 2024 117 road glide, Thundermax ECU ..

[FLSTFIDave]

Impact makes a replacement ECM for the 2023.5 CVO and the 2024 Street Glides and Road Glides.  Just a tune makes pretty good numbers on the VVT.

Wes at cycle rama is  testing a VVT cam now.  Mid 140's in torque and 150's in HP.  Stock heads, bigger injectors, pipe and air cleaner.  Impact ecm. 

I know others are working on cams and tuning solutions

[JSD]

Just watched a video of master tech miller he fitted the CR ape 483 in a gen 2 117 and a tune and it pulled harder than the previous 117 with same cam . 

[FLSTFIDave]

Interesting the tuner calls it center flow.

I don't know where the tuner as the one giving them the designation originated from.

But in fact, Harley designated them center cooled.
SB M1641 lays it out.
Snip below lays out, as you previously suggested as to why.

This cooling system will be referred to as Center-Cooled, based on the radiator mounting location. All communications moving forward, will identify this cooling system and use the naming convention of Center-Cooled. This will aid the dealer network in quick identification as we have for the other cooling systems.

That really is the only thing that makes sense for the Center-Cooled name.  I do understand why it has to have a different name.  I do not believe many parts will cross between the twin cool and this.