EVO new cylinders funny stripes

[Fatboy1994]

Hello

Have installed after 101.000km new Zylinder and pistons on my EVO
Used this kit from zodiac 712053

Looked into the cylinder after 300 and 1300km and see this, look into the pictures


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What could be the cause?
The pistons are supposedly coated with tin. Could it be the tin coating?

The only thing is that the oil temperature getting warmer than before .
The engine starts and runs normally and has full power.
I can't say yet whether oil is being consumed, as I only changed the oil after 900 km.

I installed:
new pistons and cylinders
new S&S rocker arms and S&S Quikee pushrods
new valves
an L camshaft instead of the N and
an S&S HVHP oil pump

Thanks

All translated with google translator

[JSD]

Cylinder has high or low spots. Probably no torque plates used. 

[Ohio HD]

I'm not at all familiar with TiN being used on piston skirts. I assume that in their ad they mean TiN and not tin. TiN is titanium nitride and is a hard coating that is used to slow down wear, generally used with machining and cutting tools. TiN is harder than an iron cylinder bore. TiN generally measures in the 70 to 90 Rockwell on the 'C' scale. Iron Cylinders are around the 80 Rockwell on the 'B' scale, so they're softer.

A few photos zoomed out a little that shows the relation of the streaks to the rest of the cylinder might make it easier to give you an idea as to what it is you see.

[Dogbone45ACP]

Waukesha engine used to tin plate the skirts on large engine pistons. Better options now.

[Fatboy1994]

Cylinder has high or low spots. Probably no torque plates used.

This are brand new cylinders, on zodiac homepage are written finished honed to size

[FXDBI]

Cylinder has high or low spots. Probably no torque plates used.

This are brand new cylinders, on zodiac homepage are written finished honed to size

Did you measure and check them? Or just assume they were good to go?  Bob

[JSD]

I'm guessing they are import cylinders so you have to wonder. You have 2 choices run them or pull and torque plate and measure. 

[Fatboy1994]

Cylinder has high or low spots. Probably no torque plates used.

This are brand new cylinders, on zodiac homepage are written finished honed to size

Did you measure and check them? Or just assume they were good to go?  Bob

Have measured piston and Zylinder, but without torque plates
But haven`t try the pistons rings in the cylinder
I spoke with a Harley bilder from hungary and he says
 
Quote:
 you got a scratches from piston rings not from pistons,the biggest problem the oil ring ,too rigid and mostly not correct surface finish,they made this scracthes,but the problem we have no other way only that "Potty mouth" hastings rings

[kd]

Have you considerred doing what OHIO asked in post #2?  A few pics from a bit farther away will give a better sense of the real position of them. The cylinder cross hatch does look worn for such low run time.

Ghosting on the cylinders can be a normal pattern if it follows the stud and oil drain positions because of heat disipation differences. Your close-ups are great but don't show the position of the marks in the relation to the holes bored in the cylinders.

When you measured the barrels (without torque plates) were you measuring for out of round and taper? What, it anything did you find when compared to spec?  Do you now have pics of the pisrtons from the side and top?

[Fatboy1994]

Have you considerred doing what OHIO asked in post #2?  A few pics from a bit farther away will give a better sense of the real position of them. The cylinder cross hatch does look worn for such low run time.

Ghosting on the cylinders can be a normal pattern if it follows the stud and oil drain positions because of heat disipation differences. Your close-ups are great but don't show the position of the marks in the relation to the holes bored in the cylinders.

When you measured the barrels (without torque plates) were you measuring for out of round and taper? What, it anything did you find when compared to spec?  Do you now have pics of the pisrtons from the side and top?

Left two old cyl, right two new cyl


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[Fatboy1994]

A few photos zoomed out a little that shows the relation of the streaks to the rest of the cylinder might make it easier to give you an idea as to what it is you see.

But realy bad quality fotos

Drove on weekend 650km now 2000km on the pistons/cylinder

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[JSD]

Is it using oil? Have you done a compression test? Sure does not normal to me.

[Fatboy1994]

Is it using oil? Have you done a compression test? Sure does not normal to me.

Have also never seein this, on other engine
I change the oil after 900km and now i have 2000km driven, so at the moment i can`t say if it using oil

Compression is a little bit lower as before 8bar now 6-7 bar, but in cylinder pressure at starting rpm is much more lower.

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[JSD]

Can you post some more pics of cylinders now you have put some miles on it. 

[JW113]

What were the piston ring gaps set to?

-JW

[wfolarry]

JMO:
Did you clean the cylinders & pistons before installation? Dirty cylinders would look like this.

Those pistons would not be my first choice. Many pistons included in aftermarket kits like this are very low quality.

As already mentioned ring gap. I've been seeing ring gaps all over the place from many different suppliers. You definitely have to double check every ring in the package these days.

New cylinders move a LOT when you start heat cycling them. Trying for a tight fit with new cylinders is a mistake.

[Fatboy1994]

What were the piston ring gaps set to?

-JW

The mistake are the ring gaps, i do not measured it, never worked on a harley engine, in automobile if it  "ready to use" like in description you must measuring nothing

[Fatboy1994]

JMO:
Did you clean the cylinders & pistons before installation? Dirty cylinders would look like this.

Those pistons would not be my first choice. Many pistons included in aftermarket kits like this are very low quality.

As already mentioned ring gap. I've been seeing ring gaps all over the place from many different suppliers. You definitely have to double check every ring in the package these days.

New cylinders move a LOT when you start heat cycling them. Trying for a tight fit with new cylinders is a mistake.

I have cleaned all, but i have not look at the ring gaps

[Ohio HD]

The mistake are the ring gaps, i do not measured it, never worked on a harley engine, in automobile if it  "ready to use" like in description you must measuring nothing

In the engine building world, regardless of the motor type, piston ring end gaps always get measured. As well as the cylinder bores should be measured to see the fit after measuring the pistons as well.

When I was in trade school in 1975 for automotive mechanics and machining, we were taught this from the beginning.

[JW113]

Have a close look at the faces of the rings. You'll likely see a similar banding wear pattern. But for confirmation, set each of the rings into the cylinder bore, square up with a piston crown, and measure the gap with a flat/feeler gauge. Rule of thumb: .004" for each 1" of cylinder diameter. For a 3.5" Evo piston that means .014" minimum. I prefer .016".

The gaps can be close to zero cold and the motor will assemble, but as soon as the rings get hot, they expand. Without sufficient gap, they have nowhere to go, and twist/curl like a potato chip in the piston ring grooves. In the worst case, the engine will seize.

In all my years, I can't recall never needing to file new rings to get the required gaps. Sometimes just a little, and other times a LOT.

-JW

[Fatboy1994]

Yes, it was my mistake. I thought I should measure the clearance, but then unfortunately I didn't do it. 
It was my first Harley engine. With tractors, if you replace a set, you don't normally need to measure anything. At least I haven't until now and it's always been fine.

[nibroc]

glad ya got it right

[Deye76]

"With tractors"
Would apply if it was a Shovelhead.

Glad you got it sorted out.

[JSD]

"With tractors"
Would apply if it was a Shovelhead.

Glad you got it sorted out.

Measure all including the Shovel