Frankenshovel charging system

[76shuvlinoff]

Bear with me, the only vehicle charging systems I've had to delve deep into were a 70 C10 and a 98 Lumina.

Went to restart the 76 at the pumps and click, click, chatter, AGM battery was new last fall and has been on a tender since. Buddy swung by with a jump box and it fired right off.

I am reading 12.1 volts on a battery that can't crank the mill.  Fired her up from my jump box, revved the motor, locked the throttle and there is no change in voltage. 

Popped the Primary inspection cover and do not smell burned windings, I know that smell well from my previous life.

How do I test the stater output? I assume put the leads on the connection. Would that be a AC or DC reading? How do I test the regulator? Ohm it across the leads? Test for ground?

Here's the Frankenshovel part if it matters. In 2003 I installed the later 32 amp stater and regulator from Cycle Electric but kept the original rotor in place. I have no idea how that may or may not affect the output but it has worked fine for 22 years.

Thanks in advance.

[Tacocaster]

Hey76, I KNOW we've discussed Stator and Regulators on here before but my quick search effort for you failed.
I went to Google and hit a YouTube video immediately. Try dat!
Testing these devices is super easy but I've only had to do it once.
In fact, either my 07 SM or Electrical Manual provides the step by step methods and anticipated results.

[76shuvlinoff]

 Thanks Taco, my shop manual is not for the 32 amp system but testing is probably similar.

 What I have found is there is continuity through the stator but it's not grounded. However, both pins on the regulator show a short to ground. I had two stock type regulators on the shelf, the pins are burned to hell which is why I went to the later style, but neither one shows a short to ground. At the moment I am going with failed regulator unless someone sets me straight.

 Thanks again.

[Fugawee]

Hopefully this will point You in the right direction...

1=Have a Digital or Analog Volt Ohm Meter at the ready.

2=With the Bike not running, disconnect the Voltage Regulator Plug on the Block.
  Place the Meter on Ohms.
  With one of the Meter Leads secured to a Ground...place the other Lead one at a time on each side
  of the Connector on the Block.  If You see any Deflection/Reading on the Analog or Digital Meter it
  is possibly a Grounded Stator possibly rendering it useless.

3=With the Bike Running...You can do the same above Test at the Stator with the Meter.
  The Meter needs to be on AC Volts.  You should see approx. 25+ AC Volts on the Meter.
  The Higher RPM's that You are doing by cracking the Throttle...the Higher the AC Volts should be.

4=You can do that same Test at the Battery with the Meter.  Change the Meter to DC Volts.
  Place one Lead to Positive, and the other on Negative at the Battery.
  With the Bike running You should see at least 12+ DC Volts at the Battery, which should tell You
  that Your Charging System is OK.  Hopefully...

If the Stator passes the Test, but No increase in DC Volts at the Battery...I would suspect that the Voltage Regulator may have seen better days.

If You want to try and just look at the Voltage Regulator without breaking out a Meter prior to any Testing keep reading...

Remove the Voltage Regulator and take a look at the underside of it, there is a Silicone Type of Encapsulant that they fill in the Bottom of it with to protect the Wires.
If that Encapsulant is cracking or breaking apart...it is a pretty good indication that the Voltage Regulator is shot.

This all is assuming that there have not been any Electrical/Wiring add-ons, or removals somewhat recently.
Good Luck!

Just a little side note...if the Voltage Regulator is bad, but the Plug on it is good...
I cut the Plug off of it and use it as a Test Cord should there be a next time.
It's a lot easier using the Cord at the Block versus fumbling around on the Block Connector with the Meter Leads.

 

[JW113]

One little clarification on step 2 - The stator has no connection to ground, it is "floating", so you don't test it's AC output the same way you do to see if it's shorted to ground. You need to take the two AC meter leads and put them in the two holes in the Stator connector...

From the symptoms, yes it sounds like the stator took a dump.

-JW

[76shuvlinoff]

The regulator is definitely shorted to ground.

Thanks all.

[Fugawee]

JW...Good Catch!  My feeble mind thought that I typed that.  My typing fingers tell a different story.

[Hossamania]

Before declaring the regulator the end-all culprit, I would verify the stator as working properly. Test by placing the meter leads on the stator output pins/holes and test running AC voltage, as Fugawee said, it should be 25v AC and go up with rpm.
Good luck, hopefully an easy regulator replacement fix.

[76shuvlinoff]

Before declaring the regulator the end-all culprit, I would verify the stator as working properly.

 After being on a tender all night the bike fired right up.  I have 17-18 volts AC coming off the stator at idle.  Reved it up a bit and had 28-29 volts. Based on the help you guys gave me, this is good. I really didn't want to gut the primary.

Now I wait for a regulator.

 Thanks all!

[Fugawee]

I really didn't want to gut the primary.

Can't say that I blame You there.
Could be a relatively cheap fix depending on what Mfrs. Voltage Regulator You purchase.
I just took a Dyna out for a test ride...on came the Battery Light after about 2 miles.
Guess What?  The Voltage Regulator said..."See Ya".
Sometimes it seems like it never ends.

[Hossamania]

Interesting. My '01 lost the regulator in '03, put OEM back in, been working ever since. But, on my 3rd stator, all OEM, installed by indie. The second one went out within 6 months, Harley actually did a refund on it!

[76shuvlinoff]

 Shhhhhh..... If I don't think about it, it won't happen.


 

[turboprop]

Food for thought, regulators fail all to often because of the pin and socket design. Everyone that has been i the game long enough has an assortment of regulators that still work but have burn out connections.

The modern stuff uses a different type of electrical connector that is not prone to this issue. The real fix for this super cool and updated shovel is a charging system with a different connector.

Deuetch makes great 2-pin connectors that will work very well for this application. A better solution is a 3-phase charging system. Easily retrofitted to a shovel and will provide not only higher max out put, but higher output at lower RPM and will be better for the battery as the 3-phase system will have much less ripple tham a typical 2-phase system.

I have a 42 amp 3-phase CompuFire system on one of my FXRs. Over fifteen years since it was installed. An interesting metric for scoring how well a charging system (with battery) works is how long it takes for the green light on a tender to come on after a ride. Before the three phase, I could plug the tender in as soon as I parked the bike and it would take maybe an hour for the green light.Wit the three phase, less than half that time. Sort of a crude measuring stick but it is real.

[wfolarry]

I did the 3 phase on my Evo over 10 years ago. definitely a huge upgrade.

[76shuvlinoff]

Food for thought, regulators fail all to often because of the pin and socket design. Everyone that has been i the game long enough has an assortment of regulators that still work but have burn out connections.

The modern stuff uses a different type of electrical connector that is not prone to this issue. The real fix for this super cool and updated shovel is a charging system with a different connector.

Deuetch makes great 2-pin connectors that will work very well for this application. A better solution is a 3-phase charging system. Easily retrofitted to a shovel and will provide not only higher max out put, but higher output at lower RPM and will be better for the battery as the 3-phase system will have much less ripple tham a typical 2-phase system.

I have a 42 amp 3-phase CompuFire system on one of my FXRs. Over fifteen years since it was installed. An interesting metric for scoring how well a charging system (with battery) works is how long it takes for the green light on a tender to come on after a ride. Before the three phase, I could plug the tender in as soon as I parked the bike and it would take maybe an hour for the green light.Wit the three phase, less than half that time. Sort of a crude measuring stick but it is real.

 Good info, thanks.

Yes, with the stock connection I was always burning up the pins. I had two of the 16-17? amp units on my shelf with fried pins.

  When I went to the later 32 amp two pin system the connection is much more secure and it works out that the regulator mounts tight against it, so backing out is not an option.  While troubleshooting I had to remove the regulator to unplug it. Those pins look the same as when I put it in 22 years ago. No evidence of overheating.

The only electrical load on this bike are the H4 headlight, tail light, turn signals, and spots. I did let the thought of a 3 phase system distract me for a bit but I have never worked on one, maybe next time, (if I am still on two wheels).

[76shuvlinoff]

 The new Cycle Electric reg seems to have been the ticket, voltage at the battery tics up when running now.  Gotta put more miles on to be sure.