Performance Upgrade

[56pan]

Hi guys, I have a 1997 FLHTCI. I installed Kerker slip on mufflers 1997 when I bought the bike and I recently installed K&N air filter element. The bike doesn't seem to have the power it used to have. I notice it more when I'm climbing a hill. I have to downshift more often. I need to know what other performance ideas I can try. A cam maybe, if so which one? I do quite a bit of highway riding but mostly I ride back roads. I open to all ideas. Thanks a lot.

Bill

[fxr4mikey]

Here's a link to the build I did this year, in Feb/March, on my 80" EVO .... The bike is a 2000 FXR4

I have almost 8K miles on the build now....... I am just as THRILLED today, as I was the day I fired it up !!!   I am TOTALLY HAPPY with the outcome.

This thread as all the pictures and steps that I went through for this build ... it also includes the things that I put into the engine.

Good Luck !!

If you have questions, we're here for ya !!!

http://harleytechtalk.net/htt/index.php?topic=5789.0



EDIT:
OH, I did have to replace the Sifton lifters, as one of them failed at about 1K miles ..... I currently have HD lifters in the bike

[Hillside Motorcycle]

A Wood 6, or Andrews 27 along with some minor head mods.
Large fun.
Scott

[fxr4mikey]

A Wood 6, or Andrews 27 along with some minor head mods.
Large fun.
Scott

yeah, what Scott said ..... that W6 with head work is LARGE FUN  !!!!    I have PROOF   

[evo58]

Hey FXRMickey,
i agree with you about the w6, its very FUN,but since you have the SE heads, why did you try the W6H( .590 )??
more torque?
maybe Scott explain better for us...
im asemblin an evo with Edelbrock heads off box,will install the w6H, i have both .
let me know
Evo

[fxr4mikey]

Hey FXRMickey,
i agree with you about the w6, its very FUN,but since you have the SE heads, why did you try the W6H( .590 )??

I don't have the W6H, I have the W6, which is only a .510 lift ..... works great with the SE heads and I have no problems with detonation, and don't need compression releases .... those are two primary reasons why I didn't go high lift and high compression ... not worth it to me ....

more torque?
I haven't had the bike on the dyno since it was stock.  If everything works out the way I'm planning it, I'll have it dyno'd within the next couple of weeks. I'll post up the numbers as soon as I get them.  I have about 7.5k miles on this build and LOVE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!




maybe Scott explain better for us...
im asemblin an evo with Edelbrock heads off box,will install the w6H, i have both .
let me know
Evo

[Buddy WMC]

My build is similar to Mikey's except for the 85" cylinders @10.5 to 1, SE heads that were ported and a larger lift V-Thunder 5015 cam @.585 lift. Went with that cam as the ported SE heads liked more lift on the flow bench and it was recommended by my head porter and V-Thunder. I can get away a little more cam with my lighter 93 FXLR without noticing a substantial loss in low end. The bike is an absolute rocketship and also runs and dynoed well. It is also my understanding that the VT5015 and Woods 6H are only a degree or two different in timing.

However, in the real world there are a couple of problems. The cam starts coming on late at about 3000-3200 rpm. Alot of times around town I find myself just at or below those numbers depending upon gear selection. On the Interstate the bike comes alive until I hit 6th gear (I have a Baker DD6). At 85mph I'm at about 3200rpm, my combined fuel mileage is also not the best in the world. A cam change with a little less lift and duration may be the best way to improve the rideability and keep the engine in the powerband down lower. Problem is which cam do you select considering the heads have been ported?
I'd appreciate Scott's input also, it might help us all. In your case, less is better and I'd follow the recommendations posted. Good luck with your build.

[mkd]

the andrews  ev 27 or ev 23 cam would be a great mod for your bike.i have ran both and either one is a big improvement over stock.

[evo58]

FXRMikey,
lets wait the dyno, as Buddy state the 5015 it has just one degree in diference ,but the real riference its the $$$$$$$$,
as i read abou the baththub chamber ,its  a nice shape and will dificult to ping , the Edelbrock will raise to 9:5 as the SE,
they ae very similar ,less the square inlets , , theres little to do on these heads exept the finish on the manifold and the inlet finish, i smooth them and for finish i used a grit 60 on the surface of the inlet and the manifold,  as you say about the w6,i will start with this cam, after will install the H ,and will feel if the lift will worth, .510 vs .590
otherwise will send a pic  to all you of my BADBONES brand manifold, i bought many yeas ago,its a pread Y , claim to more torque , its installed on my bike now ,and works, i would hear all about it. see the post later ,
Evo

[56pan]

Thanks everyone for your input. If Install the EV27 cam I need to have ecm readjusted. Correct? I was told that even after I installed the Kerker slip on mufflers and K&N air filter I should have had it adjusted. From what I understand I have to buy a HD Race Tuner which is $450.00. WOW!! Then another $250. to get it Dyno tuned. The more I think about it the more I want to go back to completely stock. (Not really) I like power. Thanks again.

Bill

[fxr4mikey]

My build is similar to Mikey's except for the 85" cylinders @10.5 to 1, SE heads that were ported and a larger lift V-Thunder 5015 cam @.585 lift. Went with that cam as the ported SE heads liked more lift on the flow bench and it was recommended by my head porter and V-Thunder. I can get away a little more cam with my lighter 93 FXLR without noticing a substantial loss in low end. The bike is an absolute rocketship and also runs and dynoed well. It is also my understanding that the VT5015 and Woods 6H are only a degree or two different in timing.

There's quite a bit of difference in the timing of these two cams (I hope the formatting will stay intact ... if not, I'll fix it)


.................................Lift........Open BTDC..........Close ABDC..........Dur...........Overlap  
V5015.........Int........0.585..........26.........................46.................252.............46
...................Exh.......0.585.........52.........................20.................252..............46
                     
                     
W6..............Int........0.510.........20.........................40..................240.............38
...................Exh.......0.510........42.........................18..................240..............38



Given those timing difference in those cams I'd say the V5015 will make more top end power for sure, but it will come on later than the W6

However, in the real world there are a couple of problems. The cam starts coming on late at about 3000-3200 rpm.

The W6 starts coming on at around 2000-22000, and makes max power at about 3000-32000

Alot of times around town I find myself just at or below those numbers depending upon gear selection.
I find that to be the case when I'm out riding the twisties. I have to keep the bike in 2nd or 3rd gear to keep it wound up into the meat of the power band. Around town I don't have any problems with the power band, as I said, it starts making power at about 2K

On the Interstate the bike comes alive until I hit 6th gear (I have a Baker DD6). At 85mph I'm at about 3200rpm, my combined fuel mileage is also not the best in the world.
I only have a 5 speed, I'm running about the same RPM at 85.  At those speeds my mileage is about mid 40's, anything below 70 and my bike is pushing 50mpg.

A cam change with a little less lift and duration may be the best way to improve the rideability and keep the engine in the powerband down lower.
I agree with that


Problem is which cam do you select considering the heads have been ported?
I'd appreciate Scott's input also, it might help us all. In your case, less is better and I'd follow the recommendations posted. Good luck with your build.

[evo58]

this is the pic of my manifold, BADBONES brand, it was 140 bucks, the spred Y claims for more torque,and works, and they say about revertion, ive use about 3 years in my FXR, but now with the square manifold, its impossible to match,
let the experts look and say something.
i would like to hear them.
Evo
Mikey, the w6 has 240 on the in and ex,not 249,i liked the w8 cuz 3200 peak its too low,
as the w8 has 246 will come a little later

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Buddy WMC]

Mikey,
Check the specs on the 6H, not just the 6.

[fxr4mikey]

this is the pic of my manifold, BADBONES brand, it was 140 bucks, the spred Y claims for more torque,and works, and they say about revertion, ive use about 3 years in my FXR, but now with the square manifold, its impossible to match,
let the experts look and say something.
i would like to hear them.
Evo
Mikey, the w6 has 240 on the in and ex,not 249,

yes, typo on my part, I've fixed it in the posting, Thanks for pointing that out !!  Nice to know that at least one person is paying attention   

i liked the w8 cuz 3200 peak its too low,
as the w8 has 246 will come a little later

[fxr4mikey]

Mikey,
Check the specs on the 6H, not just the 6.

all of the wood '6' cams have the same timing ... the only difference in them is the lift ....... I think, I'm pretty sure on this, but have been wrong once before 

[fxr4mikey]

this is the pic of my manifold, BADBONES brand, it was 140 bucks, the spred Y claims for more torque,and works, and they say about revertion, ive use about 3 years in my FXR, but now with the square manifold, its impossible to match,
let the experts look and say something.
i would like to hear them.
Evo
Mikey, the w6 has 240 on the in and ex,not 249,i liked the w8 cuz 3200 peak its too low,

if that's in reference to when the w6 makes power, that is not the point that PEAK power is made, it is however, in my experience, on my bike, where the cam gets 'stronger'  ... let's say than when it was at or below 3000 ...... the cam continues to make power out to 5500 rpm or beyond, hard to tell where the end is by the seat of the pants.  By the time you get there, it's time to shift, or you're out of highway and have to shut it down.

If my plan comes together, by this time next week I will have dyno charts for my bike and will be able to post up when the peak power point occurs, but I know it is well beyond 3200


as the w8 has 246 will come a little later

[98flstc]

Mikey and I have very similiar builds. Except mine is in a heavier Heritage Softail.  I spoke with Bob Woods about the W6H and really wanted to got that direction but the need to relieve the cam chest for lobe clearance and roller rockers for the higher lift steered me away. With that said the W6 is a ball! I could not be happier with my current set-up.

SE Heads
W6 Cam
CV carb 190-46
3:13 gearing.
.030" Cometic head gaskets.

[ceduby]

Well If ya ever decide to go bigger, relieving the cam chest is no big deal. Just got to make sure everything is taped up, blocked off and thoroughly cleaned. The rocker covers are even easier.

[fxr4mikey]

Mikey and I have very similiar builds. Except mine is in a heavier Heritage Softail.  I spoke with Bob Woods about the W6H and really wanted to got that direction but the need to relieve the cam chest for lobe clearance and roller rockers for the higher lift steered me away. With that said the W6 is a ball! I could not be happier with my current set-up.

Thant makes TWO of us !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SE Heads
W6 Cam
CV carb 190-46
3:13 gearing.
.030" Cometic head gaskets.

OH YEAH, only difference is our carbs .....

I know you're HAVING FUN with that build  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I SURE AM  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   LOVing IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    FUN FUN FUN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[evo58]

98flstc the SE it has 9:5:1 CR , with the stock .045 gasketsas you installed the 030 , how much CR you will have??
Mickey,
nobody saw my intake manifold.....
we are alone in this HTT

[98flstc]

evo58,

I have no idea what my CR is. Maybe creeping up on 10:1?? No starting or detonation issues. I'm running a Crane HI-4 ignition also. I static timed per the crane instructions. Then tweaked the advance setting until I had just a faint ping during 5th gear roll on two -up. Then backed it off just a hair. Right now the pot is pretty much at 12 o'clock. Running 92-93 octane when I can. I have about 4K miles on the build so far. 

[ramcr913]

56Pan-
You said "The bike doesn't seem to have the power it used to have."
Sounds like something has changed. I am all for adding some fun (W6 works real good for me...) but if it USED to have power going up hills and now it doesn't, I would address that first. Did the power decrease after a mod, or did it just slowly deteriorate? Or maybe I misunderstood your post?
Oh yeah, did I forget to mention the W6 works real good for me?
If the power has been deteriorating, do a compression check first.
Then try the W6.

[fxr4mikey]

Thanks everyone for your input. If Install the EV27 cam I need to have ecm readjusted. Correct? I was told that even after I installed the Kerker slip on mufflers and K&N air filter I should have had it adjusted. From what I understand I have to buy a HD Race Tuner which is $450.00. WOW!! Then another $250. to get it Dyno tuned. The more I think about it the more I want to go back to completely stock. (Not really) I like power. Thanks again.

Bill

nice to have a cab !!!! just sayin  ............ with the carb ... you won't go through all that BS  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[evo58]

98flstc,
forget to say,
its the stock starter???
Evo

[98flstc]

Yes, Stock Starter.