Why is neutral between 1st and 2nd?

[vanwill]

In my experience of a lifetime, some bikes are just more difficult to find neutral in than others.  Everyone has a pet way to find neutral.  There are always threads popping up every few weeks about the problem and some technique to make it easier.  No offense to any of you, but I'm not interested in any more ideas of how to help my wife find neutral on her difficult-to-find-neutral-even-for-me bike.  I've just got a simple question I've wondered about for almost 50 years.  Why is neutral not the very bottom gear position?  I can imagine a problem or two, but nothing that can't be solved with a simple mechanical lockout to prevent accessing neutral without really meaning to.  Trying to ride an old British bike, then switching to anything else can explain why every manufacturer needs to stick to some standard, kinda like PRNDL.  But finding neutral has been a problem for so many people, on so many bikes, for so many years, you would think the Japs would have already solved it, then HD and everyone else adopted it.

I'm certainly open to anyone's opinions about why the pattern is what it is, but does anyone KNOW how it all got started this way?

[L-]

Well, there were some bikes that had Neutral at the bottom and the rest of the gears "up".  But they standardized things somewhere in '75.  Take a look at the bizarre way the shift lever ran under a Sportster in '75.  Safety is in standardization, don't ya know.

L-

[smoserx1]

But they standardized things somewhere in '75.

That is correct.  And not only was it standardized, it became federal law that the gear pattern is 1 N 2 3 4 ..., the shifter had to be on the left side and the rear brake had to be on the right, lift up to up shift, press down to downshift.  Couldn't be street legal & meet federal highway safety standards any other way.  As to why it was mandated this way is anybody's guess, but the majority of bikes at the time were configured that way.

[Scurvy]

Seems to me I can know I'm in first because I cannot downshift any farther and from there on out it's all up... very intuitive, don't have to look, don't need indicators. If neutral was at the bottom then how would I know for sure I was in first without an indicator or letting the clutch out?

[chaos901]

I believe that Scurvy got it right.  Lets you know you are in first.  Finding first without fail is more important that findiing neutral. 

Just my opinion of course.

[Michrider]

I've seen older bikes go around a slow corner and the rider looses his downshift counts and the motor just revs and cars behind about ass pack him.  Then he upclicks to 1st and takes off.    That is the downfall of nuetral at the bottom.  If you lose count, you can wind up in nuetral by mistake and the traffic behind you may not be paying attention.  Also sitting at a light if you lost count of your downshifts, you may not be sure if your in 1st or not.  So then you have to go all the way down, find nuetral and then up one.  Or you think you downshifted to 1st, but it is really in 2nd so it stalls...

With neutral between 1 and 2, just makes hitting 1st a no brainer.  Less embarrassing traffic issues.

[Scurvy]

Thanks Mich, that is exactly what I was trying to say. I also remember riding triumphs and I think a sportster that had the shift on the right; now that was weird!

[1JITSU1]

Yes I think its fine right were it is 

[HD/Wrench]

Baker makes a N @ bottom shift drum  for the guys running jockey foot clutch set ups.

[xzo124]

If its hard to find neutral for you just try to get there in the last 5 ft while rolling to a stop . Very simple , works for me...xzo

[Reddog74usa]

Nutral. We don't need no stinking Nutral 

[apendejo]

Try riding some old 60's and 70's dirt bikes, rotary shifters, 1st where 4th or 5th should be. Some real intersting concepts back then.
AP

[yobtaf99]

Back in the 70's had an old AJS Barnstormer.  Was a motocross / enduro type bike, with shift on the right, brake on the left.  PLUS, it was 1 up and 4 down.
A real bear to learn to ride.  Often got confused in tight dirt turns in the woods and ended up jamming on the brake instead of downshifting.  Lotsa slow crashes.
For some strange reason, I had a hard time getting ANY of my buddies to trade bikes with me while we were out riding in the woods!!

[wayzalot]

I have owned quite a few sportsters in the 70s with the shifter on the right.  I would let a friend ride it and they would be craming down on the shifter when they were trying to break.    The 76 sportster had a lot of linkage moving it to the left side.  First thing I took off and moved it back to the right.  They took about 2" of throw to change gears.  The sportsters had the shifter on the right for the dirt track riders.  The reason for the neutral in between 1st and 2nd makes sense.  I never gave it any thought.  I could see myself at a stop light, drop the clutch and over rev in neutral. Glad its were it is.

[1JITSU1]

Nutral. We don't need no stinking Nutral 

Yea I know that stinking movie

[Admiral Akbar]

Re: Why is neutral between 1st and 2nd?

Cuz it would be a PITA to find if it was between 3rd and 4th?  Max

[Big Dan]

When I was a kid, my dad was in the bike business. He started with Yamahas and Triumphs, and later picked up Hodakas. Yamaha was 1 down, 4 up. Hodaka was 1 up, 4 down. Both were left-side shift. Triumphs were 1 down 3 up on the right side. I rode all of them regularly, and my feet are still retarded to this day. I sometimes still find myself approaching the top of first gear, actively reminding myself which foot to use and which direction to use it. I may never get over it. But I wouoldn't trade the experience for anything.

[billgran]

When I was a kid, my dad was in the bike business. He started with Yamahas and Triumphs, and later picked up Hodakas. Yamaha was 1 down, 4 up. Hodaka was 1 up, 4 down. Both were left-side shift. Triumphs were 1 down 3 up on the right side. I rode all of them regularly, and my feet are still retarded to this day. I sometimes still find myself approaching the top of first gear, actively reminding myself which foot to use and which direction to use it. I may never get over it. But I wouoldn't trade the experience for anything.

If I remember right, my back-then super fast 1966 Suzuki X-6 had neutral at the very bottom and then shifted 6 up.

[xzo124]

If i remember right those old X6 Suzuki's had neutral between every gear... just sayin'....xzo

[MaxxV4]

Anything with a Sachs motor had a neutral between every gear! (LOL) I rode a 1968 Kawasaki 120 with rotary shift, and didn't know it..... When I pulled up to give the bike back to my friend, I just pulled up on the shifter, (4 down pattern) till I was sure that I would be in neutral. He said to me, "You just put it in 4th." Huh??? I also rode an older 1970(?) Hodaka with the 1 up 4 down pattern. That would take getting used to, although the super bikes and moto gp bike all use a reverse pattern. I guess it's for more positive upshifts.
Mike

[speed limit]

It`s the law

[Admiral Akbar]

If I remember right, my back-then super fast 1966 Suzuki X-6 had neutral at the very bottom and then shifted 6 up.

Nope, it didn't. used to club race one.. It had a positve neutral on the downshift to first but upshift you went right into second. In other words to get to first you had to downshift twice... Made it fun when racing..

Max

[hd06myway]

If I remember right, my EVO had nuetral before 1st gear...the TCs put it between 1st and 2nd.

[02roadcling]

Better get a new memory, lol.

[hd06myway]

Better get a new memory, lol.

Now I remember the difference, the EVO shifted into nuetral up from 1st only, the TC either 1st or down from 2nd...