Lifter Quality

lionsm13 · August 06, 2009, 06:20:01 AM

I see that there are some cheaper evo lifters on ebay.
They are in Florida, and are much cheaper than are S & S, like $58 for 4 lifters, about 1/2 the price.

Have you tried these Buddy or know any one who has used them?
Any one have any experience with them, or do they have any longevity to them?

My self, I have had mixed results with HD. Sometimes they last and other times they don't.

While we're at it, what does everyone think for Pushrods?

shovhd · August 06, 2009, 09:36:37 AM

I've looking for some lifters as well. Up here in Canada, they're asking over $300 Can $ ( $280 US) for HD "b" lifters and I won't even mention what S&S or Crane etc cost. I was looking at the Ultima lifters that they use in their 113 to 140 in engines. Apparently these are now made by Johnson Lifters http://johnsontappets.com/products.html and are sold here http://www.pool-racing.net/product-MW-91-880A.htm for about $18 US. They also sell ez install pushrods http://www.pool-racing.net/product-MW-91-795A.htm (not the correct picture) for about $70 US. Anybody have any experience, comments with these?

fxr4mikey · August 06, 2009, 11:10:03 AM

I sure wouldn't want to have to pay those Canada prices .....

however, remember that you're lifters are a critical part in the operation of the engine ... failed lifters COULD cause you EXTENSIVE DAMAGE, even to the point where you might have to replace the cases. This isn't an item that I'd look to cut cost on, just my 2 cents.

Me, I'm currently running HD lifters, and not having any problems.

Pushrods, I'm using Rivera Taper-Lite Chromolly adjustable ez-install push rods, made by Rivera Engineering

Evo160K · August 06, 2009, 11:54:19 AM

Lionsm13,

Fxr4mikey is correct when he says they're critical and can fail causing major damage. I've had three failures that have cost 1,000's, just had a SE lifter go at 3,000 miles, bill was $1,300, harley did stand behind it. I buy nothing now but the harley B lifters and change them every 20-25,000 miles like a maintenance item.

I've had great luck with Andrews and Rivera Taperlites.

Buddy WMC · August 06, 2009, 01:56:37 PM

Quote from: Evo160K on August 06, 2009, 11:54:19 AM
Lionsm13,

Fxr4mikey is correct when he says they're critical and can fail causing major damage. I've had three failures that have cost 1,000's, just had a SE lifter go at 3,000 miles, bill was $1,300, harley did stand behind it. I buy nothing now but the harley B lifters and change them every 20-25,000 miles like a maintenance item.

I've had great luck with Andrews and Rivera Taperlites.

Yup, had the same thing happen to me with the SE lifters (made by Jims'), except HD would not warranty them as they did not install them. My local dealer will not work on an EVO, so go figure. Running V-Thunders now and have a set of S&S in oil on the shelf. I totally agree that this is a mainetenance item with a high lift cam along with valve springs and a Torrington cam bearing every 20K. Best advice I can give is you get what you pay for, buy only quality parts.

speed limit · August 06, 2009, 04:05:31 PM

Harley or S&S everthing else is junk

stroker800 · August 06, 2009, 04:54:23 PM

I just bought a set of S&S lifters for $130.00..I live in Canada ,,got them on ebay,,$10.80 to ship,,more than happy..Sounds like those cheap lifters are the Maddog racing crap,,, BUYER BEWARE!!!! Just remember when the roller craps out it goes into the oil pump,,breather gear,,pinion gear,,breather cavity on cases and so on ....$58.00 looks kind of expensive now!!! My neighbour is pricing an oil pump and breather gear as we speak.......
Dave

shovhd · August 06, 2009, 06:21:04 PM

Hey Stroker800, do you remember who the vendor was on ebay? Hard to find anyone that ships up here that cheaply.

choseneasy · August 06, 2009, 06:52:01 PM

I had very good luck getting Harley lifters shipped to Canada thru Jenni at Tri-County Harley. Just make sure they are sent U.S, Postal Service.

lowriderglen · August 09, 2009, 05:42:30 PM

Johnson Hylift makes HD, Jims etc lifter et al. Jims buys the parts from Johnson and assembles them themselves. Johnson released a new FORGED (as opposed to machined bar stock) lifter body at the beginning of this year. The internal tolerences are much tighter (better) than the other units that they make for HD, Jims etc. They make a forged lifter every 8 seconds. I have been running a set from the first production release on a cam that has .670 lift with 210 lbs of seat pressure without any problems. I believe that S&S buys parts from Johnson to assemble. Good luck

shovhd · August 09, 2009, 09:51:52 PM

Quote from: lowriderglen on August 09, 2009, 05:42:30 PM
Johnson Hylift makes HD, Jims etc lifter et al. Jims buys the parts from Johnson and assembles them themselves. Johnson released a new FORGED (as opposed to machined bar stock) lifter body at the beginning of this year. The internal tolerences are much tighter (better) than the other units that they make for HD, Jims etc. They make a forged lifter every 8 seconds. I have been running a set from the first production release on a cam that has .670 lift with 210 lbs of seat pressure without any problems. I believe that S&S buys parts from Johnson to assemble. Good luck

lowriderglen, who supplies the Johnson Hylift lifters for evos? Are they relatively quiet? I know the Ultimas are Johnson, do you think they are the same thing? Thanks

PaJoe · August 10, 2009, 02:01:47 AM

I read Ultima used Harley "B" lifters in the big inch Ultima engines in their early days but had too many problems so they switched to the HY-REV lifters made by Johnson. It becomes more interesting with lowriderglen claiming Johnson makes both. You can't always go by "brand name" as these days the same company may make the same products with different specs for different sellers.The John Deere tractors at Home Depot may not be the same quality as those sold by John Deere dealers. I think Sams/WalMart was the one that pioneered the practice of getting quality "brand name" products made "cheaper" - but retaining similar model numbers so people think they are saving more money. Regardless, it does appear the newer Johnson HY-REV lifters they are using in the new big inch Ultima engines today are working better than the original lifters Ultima was using, but are they better than Harley "B" lifters that some say they replaced may be another question.

shovhd · August 10, 2009, 06:45:59 AM

I'm not sure that Johnson made the "B" lifters, but looks like they made them for Twin Cams. Here an interesting quote from another site:

"From 1999 - 2001, Johnson-Hylift supplied lifters to Harley-Davidson...
Johnson-Hylift designed and produced a special piston and valve body
to work across the temp ranges and varying oil psi typically encountered
on an air-cooled engine such as the Harley. Since late 2001, HD has used
Delphi brand hydraulic lifters. That's why there was a Harley p/n change
from 18538-99 to 18538-99A and now 18538-99B. However, Delphi did not
use a 0.655" hi-volume / hi-pressure plunger piston and valve body
specifically designed for Harley as found in the Johnson-Hylift lifters.
Instead, Delphi essentially used a small block Chevy lifter. The main
difference is the Delphi lifter tries to boost the hydraulic psi by decreasing
the piston diameter, but this leads to a smaller high pressure oil reservoir.
The volume is too small and allows the lifter to clatter. That may be why
so many of the late model Twin-Cam bikes are noisy. After doing some
research AMS learned these Delphi version 18538-99B lifters are made too
small to stand up to Harley's heavy valve spring pressure. The oil reservoir
inside the lifter is too small. It doesn't hold enough oil to let the lifter bleed
off under normal use and still have a cushion of compressed oil to take up
valve train slack. Note: ALL lifters bleed off during operation and even
more-so when the bikes sits, engine off. "

I suppose Johnson's supplying the lifter body is one thing, but who's supplying and installing the wheels/bearings. That's the part that worries me.

speed limit · August 11, 2009, 06:02:29 AM

just had two more se `s fail

lowriderglen · August 12, 2009, 04:14:24 AM

Shovhd---The new forged lifter is quiet. The last time that I discussed the HD lifter with the operations mgr at Johnson (January) he said that they were still the oem lifter supplier to HD. They make and sell lifter parts to almost all resellers in the HD market today (Jims, S&S et al). The lifters can be bought directly from Johnson 140 units at a time. Johnson is the only domestic lifter mfg left in the US.

ridemyEVO · August 12, 2009, 09:13:31 PM

You can get OE lifters shipped to you in Canada from www.head-quarters.com at a dscent price.

Phu Cat · August 14, 2009, 05:23:52 AM

Seems I read that Chevy 350 lifters were the same as evo HD lifters and interchangable. True?

PC

Cousin It · August 14, 2009, 09:36:00 AM

If Im not mistaken (which I am more than I like to admit) 350 Chevy lifters are the "same" as Twin Cam lifters. Somebody correct me if Im wrong.
Gene

BluHarley · August 30, 2009, 07:21:45 AM

I bought the Maddog set of lifters and pushrods, it was a complete waste of money, don't do it.

hbkeith · September 02, 2009, 04:48:00 AM

im confused, so is there an agreement on the best lifter for a evo, my thought is ,i do believe in checking lifters and cam bearing on evo,ive caught them with roller ready to come apart,but seems if you just change every 20-25000 miles ,chances are the worst lifter will last that long, i bought a set of maddog adjustable pushrods, sent them right back (junk), but have a friend who put there $50 lifters in and has 30000 on them, what is best longest lasting quietest lifter made? and not just the company,but the excact lifter

baldoldfxr · September 03, 2009, 02:21:56 AM

I'm using S&S lifters & like them no problems at all with four valve heads , Also using the screaming eagle chromemoly push rods (adjustable)also good & for HD parts very reasonable price.

shovhd · September 03, 2009, 07:45:53 AM

I finally decided to give the Ultima lifters (USA made by Johnson) and adj pushrods a try (USA made?). At $23 a piece and $70 for the pushrods, I figured it was worth a shot. I'll let you know how they work out. If you want the best (most expensive) I guess you could buy Jim's Big Axle lifters (reportedly made by Johnson).

shovhd

Bullwinkle · September 03, 2009, 09:29:27 AM

FWIW, etc., Feuling has a good reputation for Twinkie parts and they are making Evo lifters. The quality should be good, not sure about the price.

gryphon · September 03, 2009, 09:58:45 AM

Interestingly enough, I have heard lots of reports of failures with the Jims "big axle" lifters.

lionsm13 · September 04, 2009, 04:45:37 AM

+1.

Buddy WMC · September 05, 2009, 05:14:45 AM

Quote from: gryphon on September 03, 2009, 09:58:45 AM
Interestingly enough, I have heard lots of reports of failures with the Jims "big axle" lifters.

Gryph is right, My SE's that failed were made by Jim's. V-Thunders in my engine now with no problems and I have a set of S&S on the shelf when needed. Bought the V-Thunders as part of a package with the 5015 cam and B-Hive springs.

shovhd · September 09, 2009, 06:17:46 PM

So I got my new Ultima lifters and pushrods. Cut out the old adjustable, but not "quick change" pushrods and found I had Jim's Big Axle lifters in there. I bought this bike used in December '08 and I had no idea what was in it other than what the PO told me (11-1, Andrews gears, etc). I was getting some valve train noise and tried adjusting the pushrods, but it didn't really help. Could just be a radical cam (don't know what it is), but I figured I might as well swap out the lifters in case they were originals. Now I got a dilemma, do I put in the Ultimas or leave the Jim's in there and keep looking for the ticking? Where do I look next? Breather, cam and pinion gears? Rocker?

Thanks.
shovhd

Reddog74usa · September 10, 2009, 02:21:15 AM

I have seen many talk about the Jims lifters failing here on HTT. Jims may make some nice tools but I wouldn't rum his lifters. In fact I got an engine just like your talkin about. Used and didn't know what was in it and found a set of Jims lifters in there when I tore it down. i swaped em out for a set of H-D "B" lifters. I would run the Ultima's without hesitation. Be glad you found the Jims and get them out of there.

Buddy WMC · September 10, 2009, 05:22:50 AM

RD is right and I concur, get the Jim's lifters out of there! I'd also take the time to pull the nosecone to find out what cam is installed and then you'll know. A new Torrington cam bearing and cam seal should be installed as well. It's only a few more bucks and a little more time to make sure of what you have in there and to check the gearcase and endplay on the cam.

shovhd · September 10, 2009, 03:57:34 PM

Well I'm going to try the Ultimas and see how they work out. Just for interest sake I took some pics of the 2 lifters side-by-side.

Ultima on right - Jim's Big Axle Power Glide on left

Ultima on top

Ultima on right

shovhd

BluHarley · September 10, 2009, 04:18:35 PM

I look forward to your opinion, I just ordered a set of Ultima's today. I sure hope they're good, I can't afford to waste another $100!

lowriderglen · September 10, 2009, 06:27:30 PM

Jim's and Ultima are both made by Johnson Hylift............Jims buys the parts from Johnson and assembles the units themselves. Ultima buys the assembled unit and resells...

BluHarley · September 11, 2009, 03:39:41 PM

Well, I would trust Johnson to assemble their own product before I would trust anyone else.

shovhd · September 12, 2009, 07:54:42 PM

Installed the lifters and push rods yesterday. Went for a fairly aggressive 100 mile ride today and the top end is quieter than before. Install was easy. The Ultima push rods look like good quality and they are 24tpi. They only have a 4 sided nut on the main push rod so it was 9.6 flats to .100.

shovhd

BluHarley · September 12, 2009, 08:16:23 PM

Glad to hear it! Can't wait to get my Ultima lifters in......

BluHarley · September 18, 2009, 07:50:58 PM

I installed a set of Ultimas yesterday, nice looking lifters, bigger axel that original Harley. Still have a knock at idle, and lifters make noise when RPMs hit about 3000. Not sure if I should try to adjust them or just let things settle. New oversize rings and honed cylinders a few hundred miles ago. But it's much quieter with the Ultimas.

mp · September 20, 2009, 09:43:56 PM

I can't imagine recommending the H-D "B" lifters and then saying change them every 25,000 miles. If you have to change them at that rate, they're JUNK!
I have Crane lifters that have gone nearly 50,000 trouble free miles so far. As far as I know, they only made the one kind for Evos. They have gone bankrupt, but I guess S&S has bought them.
The Johnson lifters sound like they might be worth a try. As for them making the "B" lifters for H-D, they would be making them to H-D's "make them as cheap as possible" specs. I assume that would be different than the lifters that actually have Johnson's name on them.

lowriderglen · September 21, 2009, 05:39:57 PM

MP- You are correct about Johnson making the lifter to HD specs. The best lifter that Johnson is making right now has a forged lifter body with very tight internal tolerences. To my knowledge this lifter is only available from Johnson--not Jims etc.....

Reddog74usa · November 04, 2009, 05:29:57 PM

Hey Shovhd how are the Ultima lifters workin out now that they have been in there a while?

shovhd · November 04, 2009, 08:39:34 PM

No problems so far, Reddog. Ultima pushrods are working good as well. Now if I could just get someone to reply to my tuning thread http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,18419.0.html life would be good.

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