SEST with "Smart Tune" vs TTS

[omega1]

Has anyone tried the latest update to SEST with Smart Tune yet?

I would like to know if it provides data to modify VE's like the TTS unit.


TIA

[Herko]

Anxious to hear the same.
Hearsay is that the Smart Tune is to be MoCo's version of VTune...ie use the switching sensors to help calibrate the VE's.
Wanting to hear from an actual first hand Smart Tune success story (or not) from the standpoint of the new location of the OE sensors and how much of a reversion issue will be presented during tuning (calibration).

SPX-KM has the had advantage of having the new '10 Touring cals, sensors, and pipes for a good while to do their testing.
Even so, I feel certain the folks at TTS will catch up (if not already) and the Mastertune will once again be a better product overall.

Bought the new 32111-10 s/w to have a look.
But was apprehensive about installing it though after hearing some lock up rumors.
Maybe some one can dispel this??

(Bravo Echo November...use caution)

[FLTRI]

But was apprehensive about installing it though after hearing some lock up rumors.

Not rumors but nothing new either.
They still have not gotten rid of "NOLAN".
There are also some behind the scenes that SEST does some stuff with that can and will have effect on tuning, much the same as last versions.
Not going to be pretty, but we will need to learn Lambda workarounds just as with previous AFR-based versions.
Bob

[WVULTRA]

I'm also hearing comments that Dealers are pushing the "Smart Tune" plus the fact that an individual user doesn't have to lug a laptop along for the ride.....

Still don't have any faith in the SEST with it's published track record; and I've never used one.  Also feel confident Steve Cole and the Mastertune crew will be at the top of the game once all the dust settles.

IMO, if a user wanted to try the new software, an extra laptop with Vista would make a good test mule!   



Roger, Tower!

[Scotty]

(Bravo Echo November...use caution)

Roger, Tower!


Can I play

[Herko]

(Bravo Echo November...use caution)

Roger, Tower!


Can I play

Royer.

(Papa Mike transmission c/w)

[eddfive]

 Actually I have had the new SEST for about 2 weeks now.  I have never had "NOLAN" in all three versions of SEST.  When I tune with it it works fine, the graphical user interface is different but I have never had a computer lock up.  Bob, it is just like building motors you need to use matching components, same way with software you have to have the minimum computer requirements for it to work properly.  If you are trying to run dyno, and tuning software on the same machine you may not have enough memory capability.  Thinks about it.

  The new SEST does have a lot of features now like Smart Tune, they also have added Lambda or AFR tuning.  With the AFR tuning you can use different levels of ethanol in the gasoline and it will change the Stoich value accordingly.  I know TTS and Direct Link will catch up soon but right now for a 2010 bagger the newest SEST is the only game in town.  Stay tuned as I am sure it will get interesting over the next few weeks/months.

[springer-]

In my experience the NOLAN errors seem to be a result of Video card driver compatibility.  Trying different drivers and checking for the latest updates can help.  Also different video cards or generic drivers.

[FLTRI]

When I tune with it it works fine, the graphical user interface is different but I have never had a computer lock up. 

If you tune while the engine is running with load for more than 60mins at a time and not had any problems...you are lucky you got a computer that is 100% compatible with the SEST computer.
We've had 3 different XP machines (2 desktops and 1 notebook) dedicated to the SEST software only to eliminate any variables from the computer and its setup. Presently use a new dedicated Dell notebook we sent to SPX and they set it up for us and sent it back. Yep the software still blows up (Nolan). Completely spontaneous.
Just saying,
Bob
PS - Have had no issues with any other software including SERT, TTS, Direct Link, TFI, T-max, etc.

[eddfive]

I guess I am lucky twice then because I have a Dell D600 with XP and a Dell D810 with XP and both laptops will run all software for tuning without any glitches.  One thing I do is order laptops that have a true RS232 port so I do not need a USB to RS232 conversion cable and software.  I never buy new laptops, always buy re-furbished ones.

[Doc 1]

Actually I have had the new SEST for about 2 weeks now.  I have never had "NOLAN" in all three versions of SEST.  When I tune with it it works fine, the graphical user interface is different but I have never had a computer lock up.  Bob, it is just like building motors you need to use matching components, same way with software you have to have the minimum computer requirements for it to work properly.  If you are trying to run dyno, and tuning software on the same machine you may not have enough memory capability.  Thinks about it.

  The new SEST does have a lot of features now like Smart Tune, they also have added Lambda or AFR tuning.  With the AFR tuning you can use different levels of ethanol in the gasoline and it will change the Stoich value accordingly.  I know TTS and Direct Link will catch up soon but right now for a 2010 bagger the newest SEST is the only game in town.  Stay tuned as I am sure it will get interesting over the next few weeks/months.

Don't speak so quickly there eddfive....when your done tuning with the new SEST Smart Tune recheck your closed loop area for AFR.
Doc

[FLTRI]

One thing I do is order laptops that have a true RS232 port so I do not need a USB to RS232 conversion cable and software.  I never buy new laptops, always buy re-furbished ones.

We have done the same thing with different results. Yes you are lucky if you have the software open during lengthy tunes.
SPX is fully aware of stability problems especially when tuning FXD bikes. 2 RFI chokes on the lead to the diag connector helped.
New, used, refurbished notebooks or desktops, the software should be bulletproof. It is not. The SEST dongle allows electrical spikes into it and sending it to the computer, whatever you have. With pure luck it will not affect you, but time is on the devil's side here.
Bob

[Steve Cole]

I can tell you that the new "Smarttune" is anything but smart! We were able to do a little testing with it and found that the user has no idea what it does as there is no user feedback. What you do is check a box and program. Then ride the bike, you have no way to know what data and how much was collected. When your done with the blind data collection you load the recorded file and it will suggest some changes that you may use. You have no control how to setup the test and what conditions the test is being run in. You have no choice to tune at 14.6, 14.5 , 14.4...... like Vtune allows you to do. V-tune allows you to see what your doing and you are allowed to preset the conditions your tuning too. HD has done what they always do and failed poorly with this one.

[HV]

Its not changing the AFRs directly ..its changing the VEs ..and you can see what changes you make as well as comparing the original VEs etc...

[Rider57]

I can tell you that the new "Smarttune" is anything but smart! We were able to do a little testing with it and found that the user has no idea what it does as there is no user feedback. What you do is check a box and program. Then ride the bike, you have no way to know what data and how much was collected. When your done with the blind data collection you load the recorded file and it will suggest some changes that you may use. You have no control how to setup the test and what conditions the test is being run in. You have no choice to tune at 14.6, 14.5 , 14.4...... like Vtune allows you to do. V-tune allows you to see what your doing and you are allowed to preset the conditions your tuning too. HD has done what they always do and failed poorly with this one.

Steve, Mike at the lab reported the same as you. SEST w/ SmartTune is worthless.
Home by Thursday morning!

[Steve Cole]

Its not changing the AFRs directly ..its changing the VEs ..and you can see what changes you make as well as comparing the original VEs etc...

What you cannot see or adjust is what AFR or Lambda your trying to tune for. The user has no control and believe me when I tell you that what you see on the screen is NOT what gets put into the calibration when smart tuning. How do you know when you have enough data that the feature can do its job and do it correctly.............. you don't. Yes, once you have gathered data and reloaded it into the program you can see the VE before and after but what does that tell you? How do you know if the changes suggested are going to be right or what is needed? HD did like they have done in the past and made a poor copy of what we've done. Only problem is that it can and will mislead the hell out of users who know no better.

[HV]

Its not changing the AFRs directly ..its changing the VEs ..and you can see what changes you make as well as comparing the original VEs etc...

What you cannot see or adjust is what AFR or Lambda your trying to tune for. The user has no control and believe me when I tell you that what you see on the screen is NOT what gets put into the calibration when smart tuning. How do you know when you have enough data that the feature can do its job and do it correctly.............. you don't. Yes, once you have gathered data and reloaded it into the program you can see the VE before and after but what does that tell you? How do you know if the changes suggested are going to be right or what is needed? HD did like they have done in the past and made a poor copy of what we've done. Only problem is that it can and will mislead the hell out of users who know no better.

So..................tell us what you really think Steve ... 

[Steve Cole]

Guess it bothers me to see someone screwing up what properly done can be a good thing. This will make people think it's no good when in truth it is just poorly thought out and done on HD's part. Maybe that's what happens when you try to copy someone else's work and you do not understand how it needs to work!

[HV]

I gotta agree with you there....I was just reading about it...never used the smart tune yet so im ignorant as to its abilities  ( or lack of )  but having never used a TTS either im in the same boat there    I must say I have seen a lot of good feed back on the TTS here though 

[loc]

I dont have the new software but if it is for adjusting VE's then you would need to set all the AFR values to "RED" at the 14.6 so that the bike will stay in closed loop. Once that data is recorded and the VE's are adjusted then you can go back to the AFR tables and adjust what you wish.

Is this the case with the new Smart Tune or am I way off base?

[Steve Cole]

HD's new feature sets things how they want. You do not have a choice in the matter. Just because you see it on the screen does not mean that's what they put into the ECM and rest assured it's not what gets put in all the time. When you check the Smart tune box it does what it wants not what you have set.

[loc]

Would be nice to have someone use this "smart-tune" then put it on the dyno to see what differences are, and see how close it works to the actual manual tuning.

[Herko]

Would be nice to have someone use this "smart-tune" then put it on the dyno to see what differences are, and see how close it works to the actual manual tuning.

Loc,
Already done. Reply's 12,14,15,17,20 are based on lab/dyno findings AFIAK. I don't think these are statements of conjecture.

[loc]

Herko,

I'm no expert and by no mean know what the hell i'm doing with a tuner. Played with maps for a few years thats about it. But I do feel some bias thoughts due to the relationship of the TTS and the SEST. When you loose a large account for whatever reason, there tends so be some "bad feelings" from the account that was lost and I'm feeling some of this with the Smart Tune vs the Vtune. With the economy the way it is some of us have the SEST already and dont have the additional dollars to drop it in the trash and buy a TTS so we have to use what makes sense at this time, thus my inquiry of the Smart Tune.

[Herko]

Loc.
I understand the current state of the economy.
I'm a capitalist pig with little capital at the moment too.

But, not inferring you should buy a TTS.
You asked about Smart Tune and I happen to know the answers above were based on actual tests.
I can see where you might think they are biased so why not run some tests of your own and let us know the results.