Maine newspaper editorial on loud pipes

[quikbike]

Take a minute and tell this guy what you think about his derogatory editorial

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                    Jeff


Vinnie VaRoom

250 Decibel Lane

Anytown, Maine

Dear Mr. VaRoom:

I'm writing to inform you that at long last, your days of disturbing the way life should be appear to be numbered.

I know, it could be a month or more before the Portland City Council gets around to voting on an ordinance aimed at putting a lid on the noise you and your buddies like to make whenever you roar into town on your Harleys with the tailpipes as hollow as an empty Campbell's soup can.

I also know that the Maine Legislature took a pass last spring on a bill sponsored by state Rep. Diane Russell, D-Portland, that would have cracked down on your eardrum-busting antics from Kittery to Fort Kent. (Russell, by the way, promises she'll be back.)

And, yes, I'm well aware that you guys are vowing to fight this thing all the way to the Supreme Court if that's what it takes to protect this assault on your un-muffled manhood. (Not to get too personal, VaRoom, but are you aware there are pills for that kind of thing?)

But trust me. You and your fellow straight-pipers can't win this fight. And here's why.

For starters, beyond the occasional knuckle-dragging pedestrian who thinks loud is cool, you're driving the vast majority of us crazy.

When I last complained about this a couple of years ago, I was swamped with calls, letters and e-mails from readers who (like me) think guys like you have problems that go way beyond your obvious need to be noticed. (By the way, that rhinestoned leather vest with no shirt underneath? Not working.)

The problem back then was that nobody could - or would - do anything about it.

Sure, Maine has long had a state law that specifically prohibits monkeying with the muffler to make your bike louder. But state and local police all told me back in 2007 that without a decibel meter in every cruiser, enforcing the statute was virtually impossible.

Ah, but now, VaRoom, there's an easier way.

Since 1983, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency law has required that any new motorcycle sold in the United States contain a stamp and/or label certifying that sound coming from the bike's exhaust system does not exceed federal noise standards. The law has gathered dust (or is it soot?) for more than a quarter-century because, like Maine's state law, nobody has seen fit to enforce it.

No longer.

Portland's proposed ordinance, which has already received a unanimous thumbs-up from the council's Public Safety Committee, would simply require that you and your fellow bikers have the EPA certification on your motorcycle if and when you're pulled over by a police officer.

No decibel meters. No cupped ears. No curbside arguments over what "too loud" means. Either you have the label or you don't - case closed.

The fine would range from a minimum $50 to $500 for the fourth offense, although City Councilor Dan Skolnik plans an amendment that would waive the fine for the first infraction. (Some people are just too nice.)

And get this, VaRoom. Portland is far from alone.

Out in Denver, Colo., a noise ordinance based on the EPA certification has been working like a charm since it took effect two years ago.

"They've really got to be calling attention to themselves in order to be pulled over," said Paul Riedesel, Denver's noise inspector. "But if they're doing that, we'll oblige them."

Denver's penalties are much steeper than those proposed in Portland: The fine ranges from $500 for a first offense (with $350 suspended if you quickly bring the motorcycle into compliance) to a whopping $999 for the third offense.

"It works well," Riedesel said. "The labels are either there or they're not there."

The result? The number of citations has dropped to about a half-dozen so far this summer. So have the complaints that used to pour into Riedesel's office.

"I'm just happy nobody's calling me...


anymore," he said.

What's that, Mr. VaRoom? The guy should do what with his EPA labels?

Try telling that to Lt. Brad Florence of the Green Bay (Wis.) Police Department. Green Bay passed its EPA-based ordinance 14 months ago - and this one has a twist that would make many Mainers stand up and cheer (loudly).

"If a person is bothered by a loud muffler, they can take down the license plate number and send in a complaint via the Internet," Florence said.

The Green Bay police then contact the registered owner of the bike - doesn't matter who was driving - and summon him down to the station for an inspection. No sticker means a $100 fine plus about $71 in court costs.

Is it working?

"Absolutely," said Florence.

Even smaller communities are declaring war on loud pipes. Down in East Greenwich, R.I., a 90-day emergency ordinance is now in effect that prohibits motorcycles sans EPA certification.

The police chief there, Col. David Desjarlais, says it came after numerous complaints from waterfront residents that bikers were revving it up at all hours (especially when they went under railroad trestles it seems that echoes make them all tingly).

So how many tickets have East Greenwich's officers written this summer?

"Haven't had to," said Desjarlais. The "certain few" who cause the noise, he said, apparently have taken their racket elsewhere.

(They'd best avoid the Rhode Island communities of Lincoln, Smithfield, Cumberland and Glocester - all of whom have sought East Greenwich's advice in writing ordinances of their own.)

What's that, VaRoom? We've got you all wrong? There are legitimate reasons for making all that noise?

Yeah, right.

My favorite is the "safety argument," where you guys claim that if you don't render the rest of us temporarily deaf, we won't realize you're out there on the road with us.

They made that claim out in Denver, too - at least until a guy with nothing in his muffler (and less between his ears) ran broadside into a fire truck on its way to a fire.

Get this, VaRoom. The poor guy never heard the siren.

His bike was too loud.

Columnist Bill Nemitz can be contacted at 791-6323 or at:

bnemitz@pressherald.com               

[HV]

Do what you want guys but DO NOT mention any connection with HTT ..

[Princess Butt]

Well, this is what happens when enough citizens get PO'ed at motorcyclists. They come after us with the law, we've gone from one extreme to the other. How did we get to this point? It wasn't from switching out the stock mufflers for some 2 into 1 Supertrapps, or putting a set of Screamin' Beagle mufflers on an Evo bike 10 years ago.

This is a result of the very wide open, very loud mufflers. The ones which are designed for maximum sound output, and the people who have supported the market for extremely loud pipes with their wallets.

Basically, what they do is look for the EPA stamp that's on the muffler when the motorcycle leaves the factory. This creates a few problems:

1. What about replacement mufflers which meet noise standards, or are close enough that nobody can hear them anyway? The S&S SPO's are quiet mufflers, but they have no EPA stamp on them. I would guess they're about 85 to 86 decibles at the 35 mph standard for the noise test.

2. What is the enforcement mechanism for pipes that are too loud?

3. The EPA label certifies that the bike met emissions standards when it left the factory. This is a CYA for the manufacturer. Once a motorcycle has 5000, 10000, or 100,000 miles on it, what about the noise level from normal wear and tear?

4. Okay, I take a set of stock mufflers with the stamps, and hollow them out. That makes a set of 120 decible mufflers LEGAL in the eyes of their laws. Not good for anyone, because the next step may be more severe.

I think the answer is to equip officers with decibel meters, and train them how to use them. In the long run, it's a much better solution, and those decibel meters work for other noises too, like booming stereos.

Okay, I relinquish the soap box for the next 5 minutes.

BnEUC

[Dennis The Menace]

Honestly, if someone has to resort to sarcasm and name calling and such, they wont get far with their complaint to the gov.  This is clearly only a rant, and nothing to be concerned with.  No public official is going to take this guy serious.

Remember, there are already EPA regs on noise.  They are sporadically (and non-uniformly) enforced.  Nothing this guy can do to change the Federal Law.  And, as has been seen time and again, any local gov that makes things stricter than the Feds will face an uphill battle, losing Federal monies at best, a lawsuit by local constituents at worst.  Or vice versa.

My opinion, away only the basis of ths guys rant--we have to be vigilant in creating noise only where it doesnt bother others.  I have loud pipes, and I pretty much idle out of my hood just to keep from bothering the neighbors.  I dont rev the bike in town at lights, etc. its childish, and just says that you are an ignorant moron.  There is a time and place for it, but with a bunch of non riders around, its its not the right time.

JMO

menace

[rustyflstc]

Der Mr stickuphisbutt Ed

Let me get this right, it's ok to run my chainsaw as loud as I want. It's ok to drive my jalopy truck spewing oil and smoke down the road. And it's ok to marry my brother in maine but I need to have a quiet motorcycle.

Hmmm whatever happened to live free or die?


Oh sorry wrong state, eh!

   

[marc]

Well...We knew it was going to happen sooner or later and there has been a lot of talk and now they are doing something about it...

[PoorUB]

Well, the guy is a bit wound up, that is for sure! As for fighting him, don't expect a lettter from me, as I am on his side. I am not as crazed about it as he is, but I am sick of loud exhaust too. When a bunch of us riders are taking a break, and visiting at a gas stop, or a restaurant, it pisses us off when the one idiot with loud pipes starts up and sits there and revs his engine to show how tough he is. And why is it the one guy with loud pipes is the only ridert tha has to sit and blip the throttle while waiting for traffic to clear?
My engine build with my '05 Ultra pulled 89 HP and 98 ft/lbs of torque, with stock, EPA aproved exhaust, so I don't buy the talk that free flowing exhaust is nessassary to produce ponies.  I realize I gave up maybe 5 HP with the stock pipes, but I still made nice numbers, have a strong runner, and it is queit too!

[deathwish]

And it isn't about just Harleys anymore. EVERY Jerk that buys a new JAP cruiser puts on a set of loud pipes so it sounds like a Harley (thats missing on 1 cyl.). They are so proud! But if you look close you have a hard time knowing what brand it is because they have very little identifycation on the tanks of most of the new jap cruisers.
Also try buying a set of stock pipes for a 1985 motorcycle.
Where is the law that someone fights for motorcycles being targeted and our rights being infringed upon? Why should I be required to use a stock muffler on a motorcycle when you don't have to use stock mufflers on a car or truck. As long as it is quiet by regulation it should be fine. My custom bikes were passed by the state inspectors with aftermarket exhaust so now who's legal?
It goes on and on. 

[f-x-d-w-g]

Well, gee whiz...  Now all the tough guys will think I wimped out for taking my ProPipe off two days ago.

In truth, while I like the performance, I have never liked the look or sound of the ProPipe.  So I welded some 18mm nuts on my stock headers and put on the old screamin eagles.  It's much quieter and mellower sounding and, with Twinscan/WEGO/SERT, it runs just as strong by the seat of the pants.  I may even put the stockers back on and see how that sounds and runs.

BTW, I always thought the ProPipe was too loud.  And I just spent a week running around the Denver area (with ProPipe) and got no hassles, but then I don't blip the throttle much.

[mscoolone]

Good Article Bill Nemitz,
But the majority of the noise that I hear year round is not only from 2 wheel vehicles.

If Portland City Council is going to enforce sound coming from bikes with exhaust systems that exceed federal noise standards, they should also include the same identical noise restrictions for vehicles that have 4 6 8 10 12 16-wheels.

If the vehicles have 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 wheels, I would assume it would be acceptable for Portland City Council to discriminate and overlook these, since they are odd to begin with.

[08blackstreetglide]

It all boils down to easy money for states that are broke and discrimination against bikes. I have Bub slip-ons on my StreetGlide, not much louder than stock. I don't set around and rev up the motor and annoy people.  Law enforcement must consider us all criminals. But they just arrested a cop in the town six miles from me for child molesting, having counterfeit money, and fake Id"s. They already decided his only punishment should be a work release program. Yea, that's alot less serious than loud pipes!

[76shuvlinoff]

 He has a point, there are some idiots behind handlebars. I also think there are idiots at typewriters writing editorials.  His prose was meant to incite a response from bikers and rally those that have similar thinking as he. I think that's a cry for attention that for some reason he's not getting elsewhere and there are pills for that. I wrote him a short polite note saying so.
If somewhere down the road my Harleys have to sound like a new Honda it's not going to stop me from riding.  I would like them to show me the epa standards for a 33 year old shovel though.   For what it's worth I've grown tired of excessive noise myself. There's a growl and a rumble a street motor can put out without an ear-shattering vision blurring blast.

.02

[Phu Cat]

Rustysoftail, This problem actually started many, many years ago.  But as far as the chainsaw goes, the guy using it usually isn't doing so at 3 AM, making noise just to show how much of a man he is.  Too many bike riders, jap or otherwise, seem to assume that loud means fast.  They're not the same.  But even if they were, there are laws against that too.  We all have limits.  As you get older you'll understand.  If you're too young to understand why others have rights too, well, THAT'S the problem.

PC

[longrider1951]

It's not just bikes. Many Diesel trucks use "Jake Brakes" which hang the valves open to allow the trucks to use engine braking.  These suckers are LOUD!  I passed many areas with signs telling truckers that the use of these brakes are banned in certain areas.

I think most people are just tired of all the noise regardless of who's making it.

[mel]

I agree that pushing loud pipes to the extreme is causing a backlash among the majority that doesn't ride. I'm also one of those that have gotten tired of loud pipes. I've ridden for over 40 years.  I had head-turning pipes on my ‘60s Triumph Bonnevilles, and every bike since. I loved the sound and sheer presence a set of loud pipes provided.  And yea, everybody noticed when I rode by grabbin’ a handful of throttle. Quite intoxicating.
 
However, I’ve grown weary of the noise, vibration and stress, and Tinnitus constantly reminds me that continuous loud noise over time isn’t a good thing.  I've ditched the loud pipes on my 1988 FXRS-SP and a 2001 FLHR.  I can ride much further without tiring, getting headaches, or being stressed out.  I feel and hear more of the nuances of the machinery, which is after all, one of the allures of riding a bike.  And while I’ll unfortunately always have Tinnitus, I have no doubts about the health benefits of less noise exposure.

Do I worry about not being noticed?  Not at all.  Been there, done that (for too long) and I’ve finally outgrown the urge to be in everyone’s face whenever I go for a ride.  I have air horns to wake up cell-yakking drivers when needed.

The point of all this is that I’ve come to believe loud pipes distract from the riding experience.  Just as important, they piss off a lot of folks, who write to their reps, who look into passing laws, which will harm us all.

I’ve been around long enough to not worry much that others may not agree.  Many have died to ensure we all have that right.  But if you’re in it for the long haul, you might think about the issues a bit.  

Ride safe.

[crazybastid83]

The author sounded very compelling, until he mentioned the leather vest with rhinestones with no shirt. It made my blood boil, I get a lot of compliemnts when I wear that outfit.

[Dennis The Menace]

And, its not always Harley riders fugging things up for us all.

Riding with my wife on I-25 in her convertible with the top down today, a Star came breezing by in the next lane.  Got to an overpass, and he had to rap the throttle when we are doing 65.  Pissed her off.  She asked why guys have to do that crap.  All I could tell her was that some guys are just assholes.  Rev the pipes at an overpass doing 65, that is the most ignorant thing I have yet seen in my life.  Why?

Nuff said.

[rustyflstc]

Phu Cat, I think we all are in agreement. My statement was one of sarcasm, maybe you missed the hysterical icon.  All things within reason and people DO have rights too that's the point. We already have laws in place to address these issues. But when the Mr. Stickuphisbutt Ed gets his way for Police to crackdown, ALL motorcycle's are targeted for just passin through that small town in Maine not just the loud ones. As others have said, if you want to enforce the noise laws, do it across the board, trucks, bikes, chainsaws etc. We all on this board know that most Harley owners modify the exhaust, but that doesn't make em "knuckle dragging" leather vest wearing bad people. Maybe it does and I'm too young to be offended.


PS Thanks for thinking I'm too young! ha ha.

[One4Tone]

..this guy sounds like an "agent provocateur"...or in plain english..a "Potty mouth" disturber...he may have personal problems with the motorcycle crowd..and/or he got picked on a lot troughout his life...he may be getting his info from someone that is experienced with these issues..possibly a crown attorney or a leo...he seems to resent motorcycling in general even though he is talking about loud pipes and dress code..altough it sounds to me that he may have flabby arms and beer tits so he don't like others who may look good in a leather vest..(why else would he bring up dress style in  a noise dialogue)...i got some used earplugs that I should send him ...but i have a hard time dealing with a clown..personally I do run stock pipes on my tc..altough on my shovel they are loudly acceptable..never been ticketed..the guys that run grossly loud pipes do give this clown a forum..unfortunatelly

[GaryD]

I have been anti LOUD mufflers for some time now. When I was a young snot nosed jerk I wanted LOUD pipes too, but things change when you grow up and become a responsible adult. There are OTHER people in the world that don't like loud noises, like motorcycles, boom boxes, trucks, leaf blowers, wives etc. About a year ago I posted something about how I didn't like loud aftermarket exhausts. Boy did I get hell. This time it seems like the attitude is changing here at HTT.
We are our own worst enemy. I don't mind a slightly louder exhaust (I have the H-D touring mufflers on my Ultra). Besides I want to hear my music. When our chapter goes for a ride, I try to stay away from the guys (and gals) that have the louder mufflers -- like Rhinhearts or others. I don't think there are any straight pipes(thank god). Now this is just my opion so I don't need any death threats. After reading all the post, I think the sound meters are the only way to go. Or how about imprisoning all the people that still make LOUD pipes? ---- Just kidding.

[hotroadking]

I think the problem is the weather, really, I mean if it was warmer in Maine then people would get more months to ride and wouldn't be so jazzed up to crack the pipes everytime they ride.

It's just boyz and gurlz getting their winter time blues out, 

It must be a really loud two months up dere....


in reality we have to be careful because if we get local ordinances being the point of inspection, regulation and validation, you'll be hard pressed to ride throughout the country and have the same rules..  Could be stamps in Maine, db meters in Philly, sight inspection (baton up pipe to baffle check) in Biloxi. 

The laws usually prohibit anyone with tampering with the stock exhaust at all..

The bassani pro streets on my softail will shake the windows out of a house.  Been meaning to sell them and put the quieter pipes back on,  I'll put them on Craigslist in Portland LOL

[Tsani]

I grew up and became a responsible adult years ago. My father and uncle's taught me how to ride amongst other things. Explained to me how it was bad for my motor to sit there and rev it. Disrepectful not only to others but to my self as well. Did someone ever explain that concept to you or have you ever expressed it to some one else? Probably not.  It's when you label people, call em names, implied or otherwise, now as in the past, that you catch hell and yeah, I am guilty of it at times but I try not to.  Some people are not happy unless they can complain about something or someone else. It's all about me me me these days. Today it is about your exhaust, tommorrow it will be simply because your you. Ever consider that your slightly louder H-D Touring mufflers are still just simply louder to someone else such as the reporter who wrote to above article? That same guy probably would have an issue with listening to your music as well. Modify your bike's engine any? Say like a better flowing air filter, cam or cube increase, changed the tuning so it runs cooler, better? Guess what, your nice H-D slightly louder touring mufflers are now non-compliant. I'm not saying do what you want no matter what, a human being should consider others as well. Respect goes both ways. I would glady exchange my slightly louder mufflers for stock ones if the EPA would set realistic standards for air cooled engines that don't attempt to melt your thighs, ruin the engine and can beat a snail in a foot race! Guess folks just have to much time on their hands and have nothing better to do. No other major issues affecting life out there. It just seems funny to me for a country that started out with the attitude of Don't tread on me, has evolved into shut up, conform and get in line and be like everyone else... or else!

BTW - it won't stop till they get you off and keep you off your bike. Gotta protect you from yourself ya know! And please turn your music down, I don't want my hearing to be affected by your secondary music noise. It's bad enough that my insurance rates are higher because the poor insurance companies have to pay for your poor life and health decisions.

How's that for funny, there are those among us who really think that way!

Okay, time to ride so I am Stepping off the soap box now. Have at it. I'm a grown up responsible adult who can handle it.

[Garry in AZ]

I thought I'd lighten the mood of this thread a little with a funny but true story - 2002 Arizona HOG Rally in Williams AZ. The town is on old Route 66 and they close down the streets for the rally. Many eateries have patios open, and there are maybe 300? bikes...

We're sitting outside on one of those patios enjoying some live music and a burger and beer... This younger fellow (20 something) fires up a custom pro-street type of bike with a big inch motor and short curved pipes with no baffles... He's about 20 feet away from the patio, and the bike is LOUD even at idle. But to impress someone, he sits there for about 5 minutes, revving the bike pretty high every 10 or 15 seconds. It quickly became annoying as hell.
Finally this crusty old biker, a large fellow with a big barrel chest who looked to be easily in his 60's, with long grey hair and beard, walks over to the kid. Not saying a word, he reaches down, turns off the key, removes it, and hands it to the kid. The old biker looked the kid dead in the eye for about 15 seconds, and slowly raised one finger to his lips, making the "Shhhh" sign. Without a word, he turned and walked back to his table. The whole patio had been watching, and erupted in laughter and applause. The kid re-started the bike and promptly left, as quietly as possible. I don't think the old guy paid for another beer for the rest of that night.

Garry

[Tsani]

Good one Garry! I have seen something similar happen.

[GaryD]

Where in the world did I label or call anybody a name? implied or otherwise?

I don't get on a soap box and chastise people on their exhaust. It is usually someone else that will say to me how loud that bike is. I don't get on anyone's case about their loud exhaust, I just shake my head and let it go at that. It's not my place to tell people how they should act. If they are in our group, I'll stay far enough away so it doesn't bother me. All I'm saying is other people don't like it and will tell their local politician, and he'll talk to a lot more politicians and guess what? They'll get together and make our lives hell.
My mufflers are not loud even for that yahoo. The bike had the Stage 1 filter and touring mufflers on it when I bought it otherwise they wouldn't be there now. My engine is completely stock. My music isn't too loud and if it was and someone asked me to turn it down I would. No one has yet. Besides you might like my music.

I do not do burn outs leaving stop lights or parking lots and do not constantly rev my engine---it wouldn't attract any notice anyway.

If they had boom box's back then, they wouldn't have said "Don't tread on me"! It might have been "Don't irritate me".

hotroadking is on to something in regards to all the different local noise laws.

[Ken R]

I used to put playing cards or baloons in my bicycle spokes when pre-teen.

I've had loud motorcycles since then, too. 

Now, I have Screamin' Eagle Street Trouring mufflers.   They're quiet.   Performance ain't bad, either. 

I like the quiet.   I like to hear the wind and the radio when I'm on the highways.

I think loud pipes are a fad and it'll fade away.  Especially as we lose our hearing and put up with tinnitus. 

[hotroadking]

Yeah I try and ride the softail in mid day

One neighbor came up, he has a vette, his kid races and Rx7 with a 350 Chevy, so he likes the sound,
said when I start it up his house shakes and he thought it was kool...  I apologized and he was fine..

I started thinking about the others with kids sleeping as I rolled out in the AM... so for now I grab the RG with slip ons.

Need to put the E series back on it... but I love the bassani,s oh well...

[Skullfork]

I'd like to mention all the kids driving those little cars with those loud canister style mufflers blasting/thumping their 1,000 watt sub-woofer driven stereo's rattling my car widows as I sit in traffic. Hell, they even rattle my home windows when they drive by ...now that's noise I can live without.  Seems to me to be more prevailent than the loud Harley's.

[CraigArizona85248]

I'd like to mention all the kids driving those little cars with those loud canister style mufflers blasting/thumping their 1,000 watt sub-woofer driven stereo's rattling my car widows as I sit in traffic. Hell, they even rattle my home windows when they drive by ...now that's noise I can live without.  Seems to me to be more prevailent than the loud Harley's.

The way you feel about those kids is exactly the way the guy who wrote the editorial feels about bikes.  While I also find the loud stereos annoying, pointing them out will not solve our problem.  All that achieves is to throw them under the bus along with us.  In my neighborhood, loud bikes are much more common then cars with loud stereos.

Motorcycles are starting to have a PR problem similar to what there was many years ago.  Difference now is that back then people just complained and there was some police harassment... today they want to legislate everything.  Once they pass laws against loud pipes, it's no longer harassment if you get a ticket but a case of them upholding the law.

-Craig

[hotroadking]

I don't like to hear screaming kids in any public environment, yeah I had kids, mines in the teens but they never screamed however if they did we would have  removed them from the area and calmed them down.

Today at the PO some lady has a kid screaming, but to not get back in line, she lets the kid scream, much worse than my loud pipes and beyond the level of decorum..

Tickets for Tots!

[GaryD]

Craig is right. The vocal minority rules today. Once a law is passed it's too late. So the ones with the really loud exhaust are going to ruin it for those with moderately loud pipes or the ones that don't flaunt it. There's just so much the average citizen is going to take. All it takes is one overly sensitive activist  to organize a larger "anti loud exhause" group to go to the politicians.You know what that leads to.
I think all it takes is a LITTLE restraint and everyone would be OK with it.

[Skullfork]

Trust me, I have nothing against the kids and their loud stereos, except for when they drive by at 1am with the volume turned up.  But lord knows I was a hellion back in the day too.  For example, when I was 16, I had a 1972 Gremlin X with a V-8, no exhaust and it was LOUD! I terrorized the whole county and mom & dad got their fair share of phone calls.  Especially from a minister who had outside services in the summer along a dirt road that I liked to roar down every Sunday afternoon on my way to and from a buddies house.  

I just wonder why the bikers are being singled out when it seems there are plenty others you can point the fingers at also. The kids in the loud cars was just an example ...

[mscoolone]

Eventually they are going to pass so many laws that we are all going to have the same hair cut, the same uniform, and driving the same model bike.

[One4Tone]

..same haircut..I dollar .25 cents per side...and electric scooters...no noise

[CraigArizona85248]

Trust me, I have nothing against the kids and their loud stereos, except for when they drive by at 1am with the volume turned up.  But lord knows I was a hellion back in the day too.  For example, when I was 16, I had a 1972 Gremlin X with a V-8, no exhaust and it was LOUD! I terrorized the whole county and mom & dad got their fair share of phone calls.  Especially from a minister who had outside services in the summer along a dirt road that I liked to roar down every Sunday afternoon on my way to and from a buddies house.  

I just wonder why the bikers are being singled out when it seems there are plenty others you can point the fingers at also. The kids in the loud cars was just an example ...

LOL... Man, your Gremlin story brought back memories.  I also raised a lot of hell with my car back in high school.  Only my car was a '71 Ford Pinto that I'd shoe horned a V8 into.  I'm sure the neighbors hated me.  I was a jerk (but it was fun).  LOL

Why are bikers being singled out?  I dunno.  Probably because we've been trying peoples patience for a long time and they are finally fed up with it.  The non-riding masses are no longer entertained by American Chopper and Biker Build Off so they no longer cut us any slack.  We are last weeks newspaper and they are ready to use us to wrap up stinky fish.

Or maybe it's because we aren't high school aged kids.  We are adults and should probably know how to behave in public by now.  Not sayin' I'm not guilty of forgetting sometimes.  But when someone sees a high school kid raising hell, be it by loud exhaust or loud stereo, we might grumble "Damn kids." under our breath, but secretly (maybe subconsciouly) we are remembering that we were the same way and so we are a bit more forgiving.  Seeing a 40-50 y/o biker raisin hell is just obnoxious.  LOL

-Craig

[Hawg Holler]

The loud pipers have s@%$#ed us all. There's no way we can win this one as every community and state has laws that protect the general public from people who disturb the peace. Under the law that uses the EPA sticker, even quiet pipes that haven't met the regs will be banned. As this spreads, look for bankruptcies upon bankruptcies for the exhaust pipe and muffler makers who can't or won't be able to get an EPA sticker. And the ones that survive, look for prices to soar in order to cover the costs of designing new mufflers, conducting the red-tape EPA tests and the lawyers that will be needed to handle the paperwork and file for appeals of the EPA's decisions.

Yes, thanks to the loud yo-yos who have soiled all our pants with thier arrested development.

[76shuvlinoff]

Lots of stock mufflers on ebay boys, get em while they're hot!

[PaJoe]

I can understand why non bikers get really frustrated, just as the home owner get frustrated with dog owners allowing their dogs to "Potty mouth" on the home owners sidewalk and not cleaning it up afterwards. It's all about respect for others, if the majority of people showed any respect for others we would not need the laws, but unfortunately it usually takes laws to stop unwanted behavior. As bike engines get bigger and more plentiful on the highway, noise does become more of an issue, and along with that more laws. I like bikes with loud pipes as long as they are not near me. I get really frustrated when any biker with loud pipes hangs around to show off. Most times they can be avoided, but depending on traffic you may get stuck next to a noise maker that likes to be disrespectful and that can be unpleasant.  

For Harley owners, I think Steve at www.fullsac.com has the right idea, he is constantly working on ways to increase performance without increasing the sound level too much.

[Tsani]

Even stock pipes can be revved to an irritating level. So it comes down to disrespect, pure and simple. And that EPA stamp don't mean crap. If you have modified the bike's engine from it's stock configuration, then that bike no longer meets the standard it met to get that stamp. Just tlike a UL rating on an electric part, it is only good for the setup submitted for testing and approval.  The pipe issue is just the beginning. Cars will get nailed eventually as well, it's just that bikers are easy target to start with. And while it may be seemly on the local levels, you can bet they are getting help and advise from the Feds.

How about vacumn cleaners? The one my wife uses is louder than my bike!

[Dennis The Menace]

A sign of the times....Bub now offers EPA compliant slip on muffs.  http://www.bubent.com/

Clearly, there is a trend to reduce noise levels, and the legislation in many cities is living proof.  We must not only be considerate of others but be the policers of our brethren, unfortunately.  We must collectively act responsible as a group to keep this from getting out of hand.

Many of us, myself included, have loud pipes.  Its possible to ride and not annoy most people, just a matter of riding with a sense of respect for others.

Just my .02

menace

[GaryD]

tsani, speaking of vacuum cleaners. I'm sure you heard the joke about "What's the difference between a Harley and a vacuum cleaner"

You can get 2 dirtbags on a Harley. 

[Tsani]

Personally, I don't find that funny. Heard it years ago from a Wing rider when he was trying to use it as a putdown. But hey, if it gives ya a chuckle, go for it. I have a sense of humor so no harm, no foul.  I guess next should be what's the similarities between a Harley and a whore?

You can ride em both,
they both screw ya
they both suck
they both cost ya a bundle of money

Know what else? You don't have to be a dirtbag to ride either one

[Tsani]

Dennis - can't find info on their site as to if they have a compliance stamp on it. Ya know the local yokels are going to look for it. Would be nice if they come out with a softail stock looking version. Bit pricey tho...

[texaskatfish]

So - are we still allowed to get a little loud while accelerating out of the way of the next Mom van that tries to kill us?

And I'll admit to rapping Gracie out under the occasional bridge way out in the middle of nowheres...................I'll stop I'll stop!

[GaryD]

You gotta laugh, if they see it bugs you, then they got ya. Next time you see that Wing rider tell him the joke about the 2 Gold Wingers riding an elephant and someone says "Look at the 2 assholes on that elephant" and the Wingers get off and go back and lift the elephants tail and look quizically at each other.
Friends tell me my sense of humor is going to get me in trouble. So be it. I laugh at ethnic jokes, politically incorrect jokes, religious jokes, handicap jokes and Obama jokes. If it's funny, I laugh, if it isn't I don't. Nothing offends me ....... except drivers on cell phones.
That's the problem today, it seems like everyone has lost their sense of humor and is too easily offended.

Laugh....it makes people wonder what you are up to.