comparing air filters with TTS

[hrdtail78]

I would like to compare 2 air filters back to back.  Both fit under the stock A/C and use a SE backing plate.  I plan on doing this while doing mapping runs on a 06 bike.  This is the plan:

1.  Set my 20,25,30,40,60,80, and 100 tps runs flat to 13.5
2.  Stick other filter in and see where the line goes.

I am assuming if filter flows better, line should move up.  Flows worse, line down.  Will this work?  And is it a good way to do this?  I was thinking I should just do the 100%??  Input would be great.

[HarleyFranco]

hrdtail78,

You might want to use VTune and get it as good as you can with the one filter.  Then change to the other filter and run VTune again and see if it raises or lowers your VE's.  Raises, then your getting more air in the cylinder, lowers, then you are getting less air.

Frank

[FLTRI]

I would like to compare 2 air filters back to back.  Both fit under the stock A/C and use a SE backing plate.  I plan on doing this while doing mapping runs on a 06 bike.  This is the plan:

1.  Set my 20,25,30,40,60,80, and 100 tps runs flat to 13.5
2.  Stick other filter in and see where the line goes.

I am assuming if filter flows better, line should move up.  Flows worse, line down.  Will this work?  And is it a good way to do this?  I was thinking I should just do the 100%??  Input would be great.

I'd like to help you but I'm not sure how you are doing this evaluation.
How are you tuning the VEs on your mapping runs?
This is an '06 bike? Is it a Dyna with O2 sensors? Have you converted your non-O2 sensor bike to use these sensors?
Setting the AFR table to target AFRs will/can only work if the VE tables have been properly re-calibrated. How did or are you doing this?
Bob
PS - What "line" are you referring to? Are you referring to dyno graph AFR lines?

[hrdtail78]

Customers 06 FLHXI.  No 02's, sniffer up the pipe.  Calibrating VE tables conventional way.  With filter customer is leaving with. K&N  Shooting for 13.5.  After I am happy with calibration my A/F graph should mask my 13.5 dotted redline.  Put in new fliter and make VE mapping runs.  If A/F graph moves above (leaner) dotted line.  Tells me I have put more air in the cyclinder.  If my A/F goes richer, I am restricting flow of air with filter.  I know I am not explaining this very good.  I will try again if this isn't.

I do plan on converting my 06 FLH to closed loop this winter.

[Doc 1]

Customers 06 FLHXI.  No 02's, sniffer up the pipe.  Calibrating VE tables conventional way.  With filter customer is leaving with. K&N  Shooting for 13.5.  After I am happy with calibration my A/F graph should mask my 13.5 dotted redline.  Put in new fliter and make VE mapping runs.  If A/F graph moves above (leaner) dotted line.  Tells me I have put more air in the cyclinder.  If my A/F goes richer, I am restricting flow of air with filter.  I know I am not explaining this very good.  I will try again if this isn't.

I do plan on converting my 06 FLH to closed loop this winter.

This will be a learning experience for you and thats a good thing, however I don't believe you will see a huge difference .....maybe .02 variance at the most and even then that difference could be calculated as the discrepancy from one run to another.....in other words if you make a pull at 30% throttle and a minute later do another 30% throttle pull the AFR readings won't mirror each other perfectly so who is to say the filter made the difference or it was the error factor in the AFR reading from one run to another. I still think you should do it though....it's a learning thing.
.
Doc

[FLTRI]

hrdtail78,
OK, gotcha. Sounds like the typical Dynojet with/without a/f comparison, except with different a/f's instead of with and without. I doubt you will find "measurable" differences between 2 similar sized a/f's, also it must be repeatable results. In other words the comparison pulls must be made till the power wanes, then repeated with the other filter, keeping the head and ambient temps the same for comparison. Then the difference must be at least 2hp/tq or better because that's the precision in the Dynojet dyno.

Lets us know what you find. Over the past 3 years we've tested several a/f's and to our surprise, the SE type filters (K&N, big sucker, etc), especially the thicker ones and the Heavy Breather work as good as others, if not better......at least till the engines get to the "big inch" status where the big ones like Woods a/f works best.

We had a really efficient 131 (IIRC 162hp/145tq) a couple years back that never made as much power with the big Woods a/f attached as it did with it removed. The owner, in desperation adapted a 12"x2 1/2" car filter to his bike. That cured the loss in power but it sure looked butt ugly. He finally realized the increase of 3-4 hp above 6000rpm wasn't worth the ugly appearance.
Just my $.02,
Bob

[hrdtail78]

I'll do it, to do it.  I don't ecpect to see much either.  I will also do it while heat soaking and 100% throttle runs to see a difference.  I think a better comparrison would be a bigger motor, TB, and such.  Then I could say.  "The filters are the choking point.  Which one chokes less."  Post when done.

[FLTRI]

I'll do it, to do it.  I don't ecpect to see much either.  I will also do it while heat soaking and 100% throttle runs to see a difference.  I think a better comparrison would be a bigger motor, TB, and such.  Then I could say.  "The filters are the choking point.  Which one chokes less."  Post when done.

[hrdtail78]

Well.....  Couldn't see any difference with VE's.  Made 3 100% runs for each filter paying attention to temps.  If I dont see it at 100% cant see why I would see it at 80% or lower.  I will do it after tuning with the heat soak.  Need that bigger engine. 

[FLTRI]

Since EFI is map-based rather than velocity-based (carb) there is very little influence in the a/f as long as it is not too restrictive.
On the other hand, a carbed bike will show AFR change with the least bit of intake resistance.