Lifter / Pushrod Install

[ANNIEFATS]

I have been working on a cam change the last couple of days (Only a couple hours each day)
I am ready to install new "B" lifters and the SE adjustable pushrods.
What are your opinions on installing the lifters dry vs filled.  I read it can be done either way, no issues.
Next question, the service manual doesn't say much regarding pushrod installation.  Read a lot about letting lifters bleed down
before rotating the motor to the other cylinder.
Correct me if I am wrong, but if I adjust both pushrods to the lowest points on one cam, I haven't raised the valve, only set the preload on the spring.
I guess if I over adjusted the pushrod, the valve would be raised a little, and would need to wait.
Then I turn the motor over to the lowest points on the other cam and repeat.
Am I missing something here, or on the right track.
I should mention, that this is a first for me.  The cam and bearing change went very well.
If the rest goes smooth, and the bike runs good, I will be very pleased.
Thanks in advance.
Todd

[Admiral Akbar]

What are your opinions on installing the lifters dry vs filled.

I've only done about 6 sets of new lifters...many older ones..  All new had thin hydraulic fluid in them that bled down real fast.. About at fast as you can turn the wrench.  None of the sets rattled at all on start.. I'd just install em and adjust em.. When messing with a set that has just come out of a bike it can take a couple minutes for them to bleed down cuz the oil is thicker.. You will lift the valve off the seat.. After you've done a few you can get a feeling as to how fast the lifters are bleeding down and know when to wait..   

The rest is on track.. This ain't rocket science..

Max

[JimB]

Just to fill the cavity, I always soaked the lifters in oil for a while before I installed them. But you can install them dry then shoot some oil in them too. Anything but going in dry will work. My opinion

[JohnCA58]

Like Max said,  what your waiting on is the lifter to bleed down and the valve to sit back on the seat.  each lifter is different on the bleed down,  when doing the adjustments, take a look at the push rod in the lifter bore and you will see the lifter push rod seat is up against the c clip, that means the valve is open, once the lifter has bled down to the preload that you set (approx. .140), you can now turn the engine over for the next cyl. or start the engine.  it normally takes minimal time when installed dry and about 5 mins. when adjusting pumped up lifters. just dont turn the engine over till you see the lifter valving is down  inside the lifter.    I always install dry myself but always use a assembly lube on the roller and push rod seat.

[FSG]

This is a new 'B' Lifter in pieces on my PC Desk.  The wet is caused by the thin hydraulic fluid to which Max refers.  It's almost like water and they will bleed down fast, no doubt about it.

[Herko]

Prefer unprimed and/or new lifters here.
It's easier to "feel" where the bottom of lifter travel is vs. where the top of a primed lifter travel begins IMO.
Set at .060 from the bottom.

[ANNIEFATS]

Prefer unprimed and/or new lifters here.
It's easier to "feel" where the bottom of lifter travel is vs. where the top of a primed lifter travel begins IMO.
Set at .060 from the bottom.

Herko
Are you suggesting that I bottom the lifter out, then back off .060?
Not sure what the tpi of the SE adjustables are, but with out sounding dumb, how many turns does that work out to?

Thanks to everyone who responded!
Cheers.
Todd

[Herko]

Herko
Are you suggesting that I bottom the lifter out, then back off .060?
Not sure what the tpi of the SE adjustables are, but with out sounding dumb, how many turns does that work out to?

Yes.
3.5 to 4.0 turns IIRC...haven't counted turns in a while.
3.5 to 4.0 would be in lieu of the SE Instructions of 2.5 turns.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,17299.0.html
Reply 11 for more detail.

[ANNIEFATS]

Herko,
Thats funny.  I just reread that post of yours less than 5 minutes ago.  I saved it a while back, knowing that I will be needing it.
Is it safe to assume that when bottoming out the lifter, the valve won't unseat due to the differences in spring pressure???
Thanks for the info.
Todd

[Herko]

Is it safe to assume that when bottoming out the lifter, the valve won't unseat due to the differences in spring pressure???

On an unprimed lifter, you'll be able to easily feel when you begin to open the valve. (i.e. when the lifter is at the bottom of its travel)

"B" Lifters seem to like this deeper preload.

[Jeffd]

Herko,
Thats funny.  I just reread that post of yours less than 5 minutes ago.  I saved it a while back, knowing that I will be needing it.
Is it safe to assume that when bottoming out the lifter, the valve won't unseat due to the differences in spring pressure???
Thanks for the info.
Todd

if you have the lifters dry or brand new lifters you can turn them easily until they bottom out and start to lift the valve then they get hard to turn.  When the lifter was primed with oil I had a hard time telling when it was still bleeding down or bottoming out.

[WVULTRA]

The SE Pushrods are 24TPI.

Approximate measurements are:

2 1/2 Turns= 0.100"
3       Turns= 0.125"
3 1/2 Turns= 0.145"

As Herko states, 3 1/2 turns work great with "B" Lifters!

[RevFastEddy]

Here is an esy way.
Use dry lifters..no oil.. but put moly grease on lifter outside and bore plus lots of it on the lifter wheel and cam lobe. Install cam plate with lifters.
Install out side gear or chain drive.
Drop in lifters.
Rotate engine till you feel the lifters on the front cylinder at the lowest point. It will be about 45d of cam tyrn so MARK the outside gear so you can tell where the low spot starts and stops. Then put a big mark for the middle. That should be darn close to TDC compression stroke.
Next .. do the same to the other cylinder.
Now rotate the engine to one of the center marks. makes no diffrence. Install pushrods and adjust finger tight..no clearance but no compression of lifter.
Now do the same for the other cylinder.
Next rotate the engine over a couple times to make sure there is no binding or rubbing.
Next.. rotate the engine to one of the center marks and screw the rod out 2.3 to 3 turns compressing the lifter and lock it itght. Repeat till all pushrods are done. Note the longer ones are on the exhaust.. far left and far right.
Next.. rotate the engine and make sure there is no binding or rubbing.
Close everything up and you are ready to run.. Takes maybe 2 minutes for oil to fill the lifters, pushrod, rocker shafts on idle.
Your ready to go