Shovel Rebuild

[Robertgtti]

I'am going back to the stock primary chain instead of the 1.5 '' inch belt I got now.

I got the primary of and I need to install 4 helicoils into the motor where the primary gets bolted to.

because the motor could use some polishing and paint I wanna pull it.

what is the proper way to do that?
I was thinking about disconnecting the feedhose from the oilpump en kicking the bike over a couple of times to pump out any acces oil to prevent it all from spilling on my floor.

is this a good idea or just useless?
any other things to  take in consideration?

how about lining it up when putting it back in?
would the tranny line up methop work in reverse?

(installing the inner primary and sliding the tranny flush against it.)

[76shuvlinoff]

Can't answer all your questions but when I pulled my mill I had the bike sitting on the floor and wrapped a nylon strap (rope works) around the jugs with a pipe through the loop for a handle. All I had to do was squat and straighten my legs to pick it out of the frame.  I put it back in the same way.

Another way I've read, especially if you are down to the frame, is lay it over on some padding unbolt it and stand the frame up, the motor is laying there.

   If the bike it up on a lift some guys just bear hug it out of there.  I'm not enough bear for that.
 
You're going to spill some oil just be prepared to wipe it up.

There are various ways for realigning the assembly. I would suggest the leaving the motor and tranny loose  bolt up the primary and shim the rest as needed. It worked for me but someone else will speak up because I'm probably oversimplifying and missing a step or two.

  - Mark

[easyricer]

Pretty much get used to the idea of spillin oil. It's gonna happen. 76 hit the nail on the head, leave it all loose and shim if needed. Since you are using the same cases going back together, it should be straight forward with no shims unless your frame is tweaked. You'll notice it when you unbolt the mounts, you'll see a small gap appear as the bolts loosen.
Me, I usually have the bike on a stand or table when I remove an engine, so I just hug it and pull. I keep my motor stand on my desk and set it in there. The hard part is gettin the motor on the stand, LOL, damned thing seems to move when I'm lookin to set the motor down.
On the ground, I squat down to my knees and hug the motor, then set it down in the stand or on some 4x4s.
EASY

[dablaze]

Yeah I just grab it and pull it out, I usually just stick two fingers in each exhaust port and lift it out.

I would think if it is your first time trying to get it out and onto a stand, also have an old throw away blanket around in case you start to have troubles and cant get it onto the stand and need to put it down.

A buddy can be a big help.

Craig

[HotRodShovel]

I have this great tool around for this sort of thing. Its called a 20 year old son.

"Pal, pull that motor over there and place it on that stand for me, will ya please?  Thanks Bud".

[rbonner]

My helper was the center on his football team in HS and is now a college freshman.

Used him for putting the motor back in; shovels are way too heavy.

I have a full lift so the bike is at chest level.  Do not try and remove an engine from the bike on a bike jack!!!  Leave it on the ground.  You will want to tape up all the frame members with duct tape to keep them from getting screwed up.

You NEED two people.  Or in our case a third the wife stands over the front tire and holds the bike vertical.  2 1/2 people.

The strong guy gets on the nose cone side of the motor and grabs around the heads with a couple fingers in the ports, the weak guy on the primary side (primary removed)

PLUG THOSE OIL LINES there's no reason to oil down the garage.

The weak guy lifts under the cylinder heads and the strong guy lifts straight up and you push it through the bike.  You can only lift about 1/4" BUt the frame will come up with the weight out. He then steps back one step and the weak guy reaches through the frame and positions the engine stand.  Then you set it in the stand on the floor and bolt it in.  Then both of you move it to the work bench.

Replacement is the reverse

BOB

[MMOCGuy]

If you are like me (Getting old with joints stiffening and arthritis setting in - [Grrrrr!!!]) don't try it alone. Get a buddy to help. My buddy is an electric hoist on wheels that I built so that I can handle th engine by myself. A couple of the guys already said how to do it with two people. If you can, have the bike set on a stand so that it is upright or use Bonner's method of "2 1/2"  people. As was said, it is pretty straight forward - Or sideways.

Hope this helps

NormS.

[Robertgtti]

thanx for the advise guys,
I pulled it today.

now i can finally finish the rocker boxes.
(bike came from the factory with a black finish on tranny and motor)

in the pics you can clearly see the tool marks on the boxes,
guess the moco mofos decided that if they were gonna paint the thing they didnt have to finish it up or something

al the paint that is off now was done with the motor in the frame when I first got her.
now i can do it properly.

[rbonner]

Well look at that, a shovel motor with a ball and chain dangling from it...

BOB

[MMOCGuy]

Good Job.

NormS.

[rbonner]

OK, without Robert saying what year this is...  You guys tell us what year this is...  I think I know.

BOB

[HotRodShovel]

The bolt on the case directly next to the top of the oil pump is the giveaway, I suspect.

[dablaze]

76 or 77

Craig

[70weight]

76 or 77

Craig

Be my guess also.

[Robertgtti]

76 or 77

Craig

Be my guess also.

76 or 77

Craig

think harder guys,
count the fins for starters.

[70weight]

Ah ha...it's an 80 inch motor. That would put it at least a late 78 or 79?
Almost forgot about counting the fins.

[NormL]

"Used him for putting the motor back in; shovels are way too heavy."

Shorty engines w/tranny are heavy.  And I had some bruises to prove it on my thighs after walking one of them down a flight of stairs once.

[panz4ever]

how about lining it up when putting it back in?
would the tranny line up methop work in reverse?

(installing the inner primary and sliding the tranny flush against it.)
[/quote]

Put the motor in the frame. Insert two rear engine bolts and tighten them to specs. Use a feeler gauge and check to see if you have a gap. If so now is the time to make the appropriate size shim for each. Do not assume it is the same for both font mounts. Measure each. Install front bolts and tighten to specs. Install tranny (mounting plate should already be attached). Tighten plate to frame. Loosen adjustment bolts that attach tranny to plate. Install inner primary. Install and tighten bolts to engine; install and tighten bolts to tranny (assuming you are running an electric start w/ aluminum inner primary).

Proper alignment starts with proper engine alignment.

[Robertgtti]

the tranny is still in and I havent touched the bolts.

thats why I was thinking to do it as i described it, I know that the tranny is in the right place.

[rbonner]

Well, it's an 80.  Depending on whether its an FX or FL would make the first year a 79 1/2 or 78 1/2 but I already commented about the ball and chain dangling.

I suspect a 1980.  I also suspect it came out of an FX.  :-)  BOB

[Robertgtti]

correct on the fx part,
fxs to be exact.

[dablaze]

I did not look at the fins from the top view silly me, I looked at the side view under the rocker boxes and saw the aluminum block hangin down in front of the area where the vertical fins used to be on the '74 heads and now I gotta go get my eyes checked cause I thought that block was fins...yeeash.

But I don't know what you mean by ball & chain?

Craig

[moosemush]

I'll guess '78 1/2 as it looks like an 80"motor and has late heads with o-ring style intake spigots.

[rbonner]

BAll and Chain = electronic ignition module...  Which is still dangling from the timer.  BOB

[Robertgtti]

BAll and Chain = electronic ignition module...  Which is still dangling from the timer.  BOB

now its just a matter of knowing what year was the first for the electronic ignition.

[Robertgtti]

startd to sand down the rocker boxes today..

damn thats hard work.

marks are realy deep.

[76shuvlinoff]

On my factory mill I had to start pretty aggressive, like 60 grit in spots due to the pitting. I never got it all out but I got it pretty good by starting there and eventually working my way down to 320 then polishing rouge on buffer with a flexible cable.

If you go that route wear a mask. I had lots of black boogers for a while.

.02

[Robertgtti]

On my factory mill I had to start pretty aggressive, like 60 grit in spots due to the pitting. I never got it all out but I got it pretty good by starting there and eventually working my way down to 320 then polishing rouge on buffer with a flexible cable.

If you go that route wear a mask. I had lots of black boogers for a while.

.02

i'am on 60 grit and its stil a pain in the ass.
going real slow.

I tought aluminium was supposed to be soft.

[billbuilds]

     My guess would be 1978.
     Theoreticaly you should be able to do your motor installation/alignment up in reverse since you say that you haven't moved the tranny. Once you get the four motor mount bolts back in place (initially loose) and the inner primary on I would suggest snugging up the four motor mount bolts first. There's not much wiggle in the motor once the four mount bolts are in place. You'll have a little more leverage sliding the motor/inner primary assembly into alignment with the the tranny this way and you won't risk damaging the o-ring lip on the left side case. Since the same oem mill is going in the same oem frame it should fit real nice.  Good luck, Bill

[dablaze]

Ahh now I understand!

Thanks!

Craig

[rbonner]

Alright then Robert, its an 81 then eh? if we missed the with the 1980 guess...

BOB

[Robertgtti]

yes,
 

81 was also the first year for the electronic ignition right?

[ricochet]

You can make short work of getting the rockers to good base metal with a stationary belt sander but it takes a gentle hand not to go too deep.  I have best luck with a well used 220 grit.  It works the metal well without digging since the edges are worn off some.  Watch it with new belts.  Stay off the corners.  Work the large flat or curved surfaces this way and all you have left is the nooks and crannies which take enough time as it is.

ricochet

[rbonner]

Nerp, 80 was the first year.

[country50]

78 was first electronic ignition....

[rbonner]

Yes you are correct on the FLH, they also got an 80 in motor too for the second time  :-)

but on the FX series it was 1980 for the ignition and 79 1/2 for the 80" motor.

They usually lead the way with innovations with the FLH.

BOB

[moosemush]

If I remember correctly, (my memory gets foggier every year) '78 1/2 - '79 came with that p.o.s. prestolite electronic ignition that still used the mechanical advance. They went to the full electronic with separate module in '80. Correct?

[rbonner]

My FXEF-80 which is a late 79 had points and a coil.  The FLH might have had something else I don't know.  But 1980 had the magnavox electronic ignition for three years and then according to the parts book, a -84 module came out that replaces all previous.  I don't know who made that.

BOB

[Robertgtti]

i finished the top and outside edges of one of the covers,
for the inner part it would be handy to have them removed.


can I just unscrew the covers and screw them back on (with a new gasket) when done?

or will that require adjusting or something?
like pushrods and stuff.

and what is there to expect oilwise,
you've seen the pics, the motor is in the livingroom so i cant have a big puddle of oil dripping out.

the motor has been standing for a couple of days and before that she didnt run for a about 3 months so most of the oil should be out of boxes by now right?

[HotRodShovel]

You should remove the pushrods and the oil lines. It will make it much easier to re-assemble.  Oil...not too much at all if anything. Have a couple of rags handy.

[76shuvlinoff]

It's as good a time as any to ask. Got the service manual? 

[Robertgtti]

It's as good a time as any to ask. Got the service manual?

yeah but its a crap version in pdf.
somebody handscanned it so i cant search or flick through pages.

maybe one of you guys got a proper digital version?

[hbkeith]

seeing how the motors out of scoot,why would you not look inside motor for problems? plus so much easyer and better to refinish aluminum when off.

[HotRodShovel]

Someone posted this link and I have referred to it often. You will find every HD manual for every year. Its the Great Falls Librery link.  Once on click the "small engine repair reference" then it will take you to a log in page.
The username: great
password: falls

then pick "motorcycles", then Harley Davidson" then whatever make year model you want.


www.greatfallslibrary.org/database_mostused.htm

[Robertgtti]

Someone posted this link and I have referred to it often. You will find every HD manual for every year. Its the Great Falls Librery link.  Once on click the "small engine repair reference" then it will take you to a log in page.
The username: great
password: falls

then pick "motorcycles", then Harley Davidson" then whatever make year model you want.


www.greatfallslibrary.org/database_mostused.htm

thats a great link,
thank you.

but I would still like to have the manual on my computer.

[76shuvlinoff]

I don't mind flipping through the manual on disc but I prefer paper pages. Same with my parts catalogs. Guess I'm just bullheaded like that. 

aka; curmudgeon, recluse, isolationist......  OF.   

[Robertgtti]

i prefer paper but those manuals cost a fortune around here,
75/80 euros so thats about a 100 dollars for a manual.

[HotRodShovel]

There is nothing like leafing thru a paper manual. I really don't like scrolling on the screen, however, if you don't have a manual, its a good place to get info until you go get a book.

[rbonner]

Just print the PDF pages you want.  BUt yeah its hard to work on the bike with the manual in the office.

BOB

[Robertgtti]

thats one of the reasons I work in the livingroom as much as I can.

until my wife gets fed up with all off the parts laying around and kicks everything to the shed.

[dablaze]

I hate getting greasy finger prints on my monitor. I try to buy a few manuals a year...up to 3 book shelves full of them.

Craig

[Robertgtti]

got fed up with sanding and polishing today so I took the motor in.

tore down the heads and cylinders myself and had my mechanic check everything.

to do list:

valveguides
valveseats
pistons plus rings
cam
bearings/ bushings
units.  cam roller thingys


complete topend plus units and cam.

[76shuvlinoff]

It'll be worth it.
Not on your list but I assume the tech is gonna bore or at least hone the cyls.

What cam are you going to use? You've already got her apart.....

[Robertgtti]

It'll be worth it.
Not on your list but I assume the tech is gonna bore or at least hone the cyls.

What cam are you going to use? You've already got her apart.....

yes its gonna get honed,
were gonna go thru 50 or so cams that he has lying around.
see if we can find one in good condition.

got canned from work 3 months ago and we have a baby on the way so I cant really
get the nice and shiny new parts.

just gonna do the things necceasry to make it reliable again.
and make it shiny

[76shuvlinoff]

Got an Andrews B for 78 and later shovels sitting on the shelf. It has less than 4000 miles on it and looks new. Yours if you want it.

Talk to your mechanic it may not be what you're looking for but the offer stands.

hmmmm I now see you're in Amsterdam, shipping might get tricky but I'm sure it's do-able.

Mark

[rbonner]

Well GEE, I think we should all head over to his house and supervise for a couple weeks at his place.  Baby on the way is a lot different than three running around the house....  Take the cam and have a hell of a time, get divorced, meet new future ex and really rip up the world...

Sure beats Vegas.

BOB

[Old Crow]

He11 yeah!  I've been to Amsterdam, and I liked it.  Wouldn't mind a trip over to fix a bike.  Heck, might turn into a steady gig, ya just never know.
I've got an S&S 514 cam in good shape on the shelf.  If I remember correctly, you need to do some work on the valve springs if you want to use it, though.

[Robertgtti]

thanks for the offers guys!

youre all welcome here. 

you guys bring parts and I will provide the smokes.




I'll talk to my tech about the andrews b and s&s 514
did save some bucks though,
he let me take apart the topend myself  in his shop and then I blasted the heads too.

still gonna take a "Potty mouth"load of money though.

[Robertgtti]

The rebuild is being postponed until winter,
priorities lie with the baby now.


Went to see my tech today, he estimated 800 to 900 euros for the complete top end
Plus cam and cam followers.

Asked him to have a look at the bottom end as well
Save up some cash and have her done right the first time
Pictures failed:

sad looking motor:


Tossed everything in a crate:


jcc Taiwan piston crap:


Couldn't get it in the picture but the hardened surface is completely gone?



The offered cam is not the right choice for my bike,
needs solids and some valvework, but I really appreciate the offer.

[HotRodShovel]

It will all go back together and run like a dream. Just takes time and $$ as it becomes available. Priorities..babies...congrats and good luck with the motor. I see the cases are polished so its not the first time it has been taken apart.

[Robertgtti]

I I see the cases are polished so its not the first time it has been taken apart.

I did that before taking it in.
motor was black, rocker boxes were black.

[rbonner]

Well, it doesn't look too bad.  They are all a mess when they come apart.

IN MY OPINION, just throw every thing in the garbage after looking it over...  HAHAHAHA

You'll salvage:  Heads, rocker boxes, cases, crank and rods...  Look at the cylinders really good.  get the mic out and see where they are.  They right now look like maybe standard bore or 10 over...  You really don't want to go over 30 over, even though my motor was taken to 40 over on its first top end due to cylinder scoring, the walls were razor thin.  Nice paper weights.

Then get quality replacement parts.  Replace all bearings, seals, pistons, rings, valves, springs, cam, lifters...  My engine only reused the cases and heads, everything else was replaced.  The bill was HUGE though so I don't recommend going that far.

DO not stroke the motor or do huge bore cylinders if you want to do this budget.  Stick with the stock 80", maybe raise the compression a bit and put in a nice cam.  Depends on your gas octane.

BOB

[Robertgtti]

small update,
since the primary lip has been butchered, I was gonna go for a James case saver:




decided to go for welding and machining instead.
got a price from a specialized shop here.  120 bucks for welding and machining.

gonna pick up my left case somewhere this week and have the work done somewere soon.

then its back to saving money for the rebuild.
but I figure i might as well do it properly the first time.

[rbonner]

Yeah Robert, when you are all done doing it right you'll have one of these... Ready to go back in!

BOB

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[dablaze]

Had that done on the lip on my case to, was very happy with the result. Make sure to bring your inner primary with you to the machinist. They may not need it, but mine wanted it.

Craig

[Robertgtti]

well howdy fellas...

a little update from this side of the world.

started working on the shovel again yesterday, decided to sort out the wiring.
yesterday it looked like this:




today it looks like this:




ready for the powder coater.,

I don't plan on pulling the motor again any time soon, so I figured that If I wanted to have the frame coated, now would be the time.

that way I can just rebuild it with the parts i have and replace parts one at a time for nicer looking ones.

with a baby on the way its probably gonna take longer then I want to, but that's allright.

[dablaze]

Thats a pretty green wire hanging from the upper motor mount, but quite the guage! I had my frame powder coated about 5 years ago, had the bike 3/4's of the way together them ended up getting a mint frame without all the bs repairs mine had. Took a weekend to tear everything back out and put it in the new frame. It was very satisfying though knowing that the first step was done right and I would not likely have to go backwards again for any reason. I think your making a great decision.

Craig

[Robertgtti]

I just worry about my battery,
bought a new one last year and its an old style refillable one with a vent.

should have bought a closed maintenance free one but I was in a hurry to get her done.

over the year the fumes have eaten away at the frame quite a bit.

don't want my fresh powdercoat to get "Potty mouth"ked up.

[dablaze]

Well as you may have read in my past posts, I can't say enough about the AGM batteries that HD sells, I absolutley will buy nothing else. My shovel still runs one from Nov. 2000!

Craig

[rbonner]

Yeah the new AGM was a tight fit, but she made it in the FXEF tray.  Lot cleaner looking than the wet cell.  I put a cover on anyway, but I found a different cover for mine than the standard chrome thing.

[dablaze]

Good point Bob, my covers worked flawlessly, so I never considered that there might be an issue. Actually that battery is in the sons ironhead we just put together for now, poor thing gets passed around and abused and keeps on working. I know its a fluke, but I am sold. (its going back in the shovel today)

Craig

[rbonner]

OH the FXE bikes if you go to an AGM, you either can't run the aftermarket HD chrome cover or you have to buy the top cover and cover for an AGM upgrade.  I just happened to find a NOS Wille G "G-Force" cast & polished cover from the 1985 collection that clears the AGM battery.  The stock top cover and stainless strap will go over the AGM and hold it OK, but not the HD battery wrap around chrome covers.  But the HD AGM looks OK just black...

[dablaze]

Well I am perplexed, but maybe I am running an old AM cover. My bikes an FLH but I switched to an FXE battery to make for better exhaust choices. Now, when I went to the dealer they looked up the battery for my bike, so maybe there is one that is made to fit? I know my covers look stock, I think, its the one with the little window in it.



Oh, just so this is not an out and out Highjacking of this thread...I have pulled this motor more than any other, lol.

Craig

[rbonner]

Yeah there's an AGM battery for that FXE  I just found my receipt #65991-82B  You'll need to make sure since you modified the bike; the + terminal is in the front on that battery.  They have some that are 180 swapped.

BOB

[Robertgtti]

well,
I just picked up my frame at the coater.

looks all shiny.









went to my indy to get new bearings, races and oil seals for the swingarm,
so the front and rear can go back on sometime this week.

[dablaze]

Very sweet! I think you feel like you are starting from a good base when you start with the frame like that. I look forward to seeing the rest!

Craig

[Robertgtti]

just a quick question,
I installed the swingarm and shocks.
I now wanna install the tranny and the oiltank/batteryholder.

I know I have to scrape the powdercoat from the motormounts, but what about the mount where the tranny plate bolt on to?

bare metal or good to go?

[76shuvlinoff]

I would clean it.
I feel if you clamp down on it eventually the stuff will give out and slightly loosen that bolt. Not to mention our old bikes can use all the good electrical grounds they can get.

.02

[Robertgtti]

well crap...
almost a month has past and I still haven't installled the tranny.

My wife gave birth to our beautiful son on November first, so time is kinda scarce right now.

gonna try and install the tranny, batterybox and perhaps even the frontend this weekend.

On the other end...
I promised my wife to remove the whole thing from the living room the moment it has both wheels installed,  think I'm gonna have to install the frontwheel last.

[HotRodShovel]

congrats Dad...to the new Mom too..

[76shuvlinoff]

Priorities bud, take care of mom and son right now, the rest will come.

Congratulations!

[Robertgtti]

well,
I had some spare time today so I made a little start.



next up is getting the sidestand mounted so that I can get the frontend in without having it fall over.

[HotRodShovel]

I love it when I see bikes being built in the living room. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one out there.

[Robertgtti]

too bad my wife doesn't share your enthusiasm

I expect her to install the frontend herself, just so she can roll the damn thing out into the yard anyday now....

[Robertgtti]

too bad my wife doesn't share your enthusiasm

I expect her to install the frontend herself, just so she can roll the damn thing out into the yard anyday now....

and what do you know, she did just that..




been busy. but the last couple of days I made some good progress.


got those pesky holes in my ducktail welded up at work:






and started putting her back together some more.

[Robertgtti]

results after the weekend.

now I just have to fill up the tanks and see if there not leaking,
then its off to rattlecans R us.

[dablaze]

She is starting to look like a bike again! Some of the rattlecan stuff these days is pretty cool, my patience is not good enough for it though< I am a blast and intstall wet kind of guy.

Craig

[Robertgtti]

paint on rear and front fender was about an hour old when i put them on,
we did have a very warm weekend though..

only took me ten minutes to prep and paint them, then 15 minutes later a second coat and were good to go.

[Robertgtti]

Been quiet for a while...

Things are finally starting to speed up with the old shovelhead,
Got my motor back last week and I changed out the front end since my last post.
Went with the original front fork setup.














merry Christmas to me!

And the repainted head stem/trees:


Now for the fun part...
Makes for a pretty pissed of wife....
but it is nice and warm...

[76shuvlinoff]

How the hell do you do that without scratching the wood floor?  You think it pissed your wife off? Mine would be standing there with 2 pounds of pressure on a 3 pound trigger.

Nicely done!

[Robertgtti]

How the hell do you do that without scratching the wood floor?

you don't...
look at the floor between the inspection and the derby cover holes.

you can just make out the round hole that my front wheel axle cut when the wheel fell over.

[HotRodShovel]

A Shovelhead motor and a Stratocaster hanging out together in the livingroom...... gotta love it.....

Your engine stand is the way to go.    Good luck glad to see you are making big progress.

Mark, the way I got the OL to stop complaining about the bike being built in the livingroom was to get rid of her. It was the only way I could work in peace.  That was nearly 15 years ago and thankfully now I have a great woman who understands my insanity...and a two car garage.

Everything always works out.

[76shuvlinoff]

Rudy,
I put up a 32 x 56 pole barn approx 150 ft from the house with a 14 x 24 heated corner for doin' bike stuff. It's redneck as all hell. 

Upside: We basically live on a prairie and  n-o-b-o-d-y  is going to trudge through blowing snow from the house just to check on me. 

[HotRodShovel]

ain't redneck, it sounds very cool to me.  I've seen some pics you put up and man it does look like you have a "home on the range"  lots of wide open space. I like it a lot. Sometimes I wish i did that cause I get sick of peoples bs but thats another story.....

Keep in mind when I did build my bike ( the 2nd time around) it was in a 2nd floor apartment in NYC.  I took it apart in the street and brought it up piece by piece. Getting it out onto the street was a trip. Kinda like building a boat in the basement. That was a team effort.

I was welding in the bathroom cause it was tile and not wood or carpet...now thats redneck, big city style..

[76shuvlinoff]

lots of wide open space. I like it a lot. Sometimes I wish i did that cause I get sick of peoples bs but thats another story.....

I was going to put up a small sign out at the road: " If you can read this you're in range".
The wife said that was antisocial behavior.
Well yeah, duh.

Sorry for the hijack Robert! Good luck with the ride.

[jerite]

Im like craig...i just grab it and pull it out and then i stick 2 fingers in her exhaust ports....oh...oooops..we are talking about pulling a motor...sorry. 

Jer

[easyricer]

Bikes in the house...... ME? NEVER!!!!

EASY

[HotRodShovel]

sweet Pan Easy...sorry bout hijackin'

[Robertgtti]

she didn't like me having my solenoid, a rag and a can of WD40 on the dinnertable next to my plate to clean it up yesterday.
maybe had something to do with the fact that we were having dinner at the same time.

then after dinner I spraypainted it on the kitchencounter,
did put a newspaper underneath it though.

[76shuvlinoff]

I spraypainted in the basement once. When the furnace kicked on it filled the whole house with the fumes = unhappy woman.

Today, in the basement I was stripping the bluing off a rusty revolver then doing a home re-blue job. Cheap beater pistol, I just wanted to see how it would come out.   Anyhow, rattlecan paint smells better than what I did today. Of course the furnace kicked on, = unhappy woman.

Ah hell, whatcha gonna do?

[Robertgtti]

what do you guys use to seal the primary?
I isolated it, put new bearings/seals in there and now its time to install it to the bike.

was thinking about putting something extra where the screws go through the primary.

[easyricer]

I sealed mine up with pipe plugs from the hardware store. I used Hylomar on the fiber gasket to seal the cover and use the rubber coated gaskets on the derby and inspection covers.I don't recommend anything in the threaded holes of the inner primary. No RTV, Hylomar or anything else. I've had to weld up and re-drill/re-tap too many inner primaries. If there is a build up of sealer at the end of the bolts, the bolt will act like a hydrolic piston and push it to the back of the cover. When you tighten the bolt down it will blow the back side of the primary out or blow the inside of the inner primary apart throwing fragment into your primary case to be ground up by the chain and alternator. Very bad JU JU!
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[Robertgtti]

yeah I used pipe plugs with a little dab of loctite on them.
But the screws that go through the primary and into the motor and the holes where the tranny studs come through.

thats what i want to seal with something soft like silicone/blue loctite or something.


was wondering if regular bathroom sillicon would work.

[76shuvlinoff]

if you keep the sealant toward the bolt head so it doesn't go into a blind hole I can't see a big problem. I would definitely get a thread chaser or ease a bottoming tap into the motor case threads to make sure they are clean. Don't forget to safety wire those bolt heads . I used socket head cap screws and drilled them for wire.

[Robertgtti]

I ended up pulling the tranny again, I noticed a little sweating on the mainshaft seal.
Or actually on the ''supernut'' that was on the sprocket.

since I don't have the special socket to take it off, i pulled it and brought it over to my Indy who replaced the mainshaft seal, the spacer and the supernut seal.

at least now when it starts leaking i wont kick myself in the head for not replacing the seals when I had the chance.

reinstalled everything and now its time to measure up for a spacer on the motor.

any easy way of doing this?
the manual is telling me to install everthing and calculate my ass off, then take the whole primarydrive and clutch off again.

screw that, once i put that stuff on, i don't wanna take it off for at least 5 years.

[76shuvlinoff]

Are you talking about the spacer between compensator sprocket and rotor?

It's been one long time and this is from a not so sharp memory but if you assemble the primary to transmission and motor you should be able to slide the compensator and clutch shell in place (chain on) just snug comp and clutch nuts, temporarily tension chain. Lay a flat piece of steel across the primary gasket surface. Measure from that with a depth micrometer to the chain as close as you can get to the sprocket teeth on both the clutch and motor sprockets. Shim motor sprocket in or out till they match.

[Robertgtti]

Just installed everything,
tomorrow I'll torque down the sprocket and clutch hub and attempt to measure everything up.
I'll sure be glad when that damn primary is closed.

from a butchered engine case,
(o-ring groove was hacksawed  off, had to have to case machined for a new ring)
to this only took a year and a half.

[Robertgtti]

you can see a couple of spacers lying on the lift.
my Indy gave me a couple differant ones to save me the 70 km roundtrip after measuring up.

[76shuvlinoff]

I may catch all hell for this but if the threads and surfaces are clean I don't honestly see the need to torque to full spec to get the measurement. If it gives you peace of mind it can't hurt to do it.

[turboprop]

The stack up from the timken to the sprocket doesn't have anything compressible. There is no need to torque to compensator to full spec just to measure chain alignment. The clutch hub with the tapered shaft, that probably needs to be torqued to spec.

[Robertgtti]

23:59 over here,
happy newyear

[Robertgtti]

update time,

primary installed.
wiring 90% done.

cant really get the backside of the bikes wiring tidied up.
it used to be cropped up to the vertical frame tube, (seat post) between the tube and the oil tank.

Now i just cant find a way to get it tidy,

same as the battery cable from starter to solenoid,
does that go over or onder the clucht arm?

maybe somebody has some pictures?

[76shuvlinoff]

On my 76 the wiring runs down the backbone between tanks then under the seat to the rear. It's in a black cover so it's not real noticeable but it's still there. As I recall the wires on the seat post are neutral indicator, oil pressure wires and maybe the starter relay wires (it's too early), also in a black loom. 

Solenoid to starter is below clutch arm.

Hope this helps.

[easyricer]

On the main harness (down the backbone and to the wiring block behind the coil) I run all the wires through shrink tubing. I don't heat up the tubing until after I have all the wires trimmed to length and connected. I have it running over the Y of the frame then dropping down to the wiring block before the cross beam. The main power wires also run through the tubing but I drop them down low under the cross beam so they don't get scratched up by the seat causing a main short. (makes for a bad day if this wire shorts)  I also ran a second main power wire from the battery to the inside of the headlight nacelle to power my air horn and stereo. I'm a bad boy as I have not run them off of a  30 or 50 amp breaker at the battery yet.
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EDIT: When I wired up this bike a few years ago, I did not take frame mounted seats into account. The wires running around the cross member are about the only thing that make me nervous. With the seat t installed the wiring is still almost invisible and there is nothing that MIGHT rub a main wire. (as you know that the stock type frame mounted seats use the cross member to hold the front of the seat.)

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[76shuvlinoff]

oops, I left out the terminal strip behind the coil, toldja it was too early. 

[Robertgtti]

I mean between the oil tank and the tranny I guess..

I have everything down to the coilbracket underneat the seat.

then it starts breaking up to the startermotor, starterrelais, oils press. switch, you name it.

those are getting jammed between the bottom of the oil tankl, the clutch arm/clutch cable and the ground/battery cables.

[Robertgtti]

should be ok now,
next question,  the lowrider has midcontrols and highway pegs.

i'm not running the pegs, so the jiffy bolts straight to the frame.
will it be ok or will that crack my downtube in the long run?

shouldn't there be a big old plate between there?
the regulator bracket is so thin, that doesn't firm anything up.

[easyricer]

I really doubt it would do any damage to the frame. The jiffy stand bracket is fairly substantial. I would recommend that you put a plate behind it so that you can use all the bolts that would go through the bracket. 1/4 inch should do the trick.
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[Robertgtti]

do you know of a original part?

[easyricer]

My best guess would be those highway pegs that it came with from the factory. If you don't want the pegs just remove them from the brackets. Not trying to be a smartass, but you actually got one I ain't never heard of. The people I deal with either want the pegs up there or want to replace them with forward controls. My 83 FXSB had the same highway pegs and mid controls, it now has forward controls that are much more comfortable. I've never heard of someone wanting the forward pegs removed.
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[Robertgtti]

I can't reach those f**kers anyway.

[Old Crow]

Yeah, my wife was the same way with her Superglide.  The previous owner put a set of forwards on it and though she rode it for 10 years like that, I could tell watching her that she really wasn't all that comfortable.  I switched the forwards out for a set of floorboards off a Fatboy.  So far, just sitting on it in the shop(ain't quite done yet)she likes it a lot better.

[76shuvlinoff]

Kinda like my Twinky FX with forward controls. For most of my riding all's good but for the highway my knees start to complain. I bought a used set of mid controls cheap and just mounted the pegs.  I leave them folded up till I need to move my feet around.

[Robertgtti]

mids work best for me.


anyway, did some more work today.
wife bought me new tanks a while ago.
time to pressure test and paint them.










20 PSI and under water to see even the smallest pinhole blow bubbles.
no leaks so they where ready for some rattle can goodness.

[76shuvlinoff]

20 psi? I chickened out at 5.

[Robertgtti]

couple months passed,
but I did some more work.

does anybody have a good explanation about the dash wiring and the circuit breakers in particular?
bike is fully wired but "Potty mouth" doesn't work.

only thing I've got is a headlight.

pretty sure its in the circuitbreakers/dashboard wiring.

[easyricer]

The way I have Betsie wired is 10ga from the battery to the main breaker, 10 ga from the main breaker to the lower right terminal on the switch. I have the top left terminal wired for the accessory breaker  and the center left terminal wired for the ignition breaker. I also have the dash (idiot lights) wired into the switch itself on the left center terminal.
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[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Robertgtti]

wiring is working now!

just have to find out a way to close my switch housing without shorting everthing out .
starterbutton is being a right b*tch.
every time i close up it shorts.

maybe some bathroom silicone in there will do the trick.

IF I can close it up, then the tanks Will go on tomorrow and I can ride on Saturday....
but that is a big IF...

[76shuvlinoff]

Is the switch between the tanks? Cut out a piece of insulating material (plastic milk bottle?) and put it over the switch before you put the console on it.

[easyricer]

Starter button on mine is down by the solenoid. Just a dummy in the housing. I hardly ever use it.
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[76shuvlinoff]

oops ....for some reason I saw ignition switch instead of starter switch.   

I put a wrap of electrical tape on the bar under the handlebar switch housings.

[Old Crow]

Heh, now why didn't I think of that? 
I'm not having control issues right now, but rest assured, the next time any of the controls come off the bars, they'll be getting that tape wrap before they go back together.

Who says you can't teach and old dog new tricks?  Thank 76.

[76shuvlinoff]

 
one thin layer OC or it won't clamp up well.

[Old Crow]

 

[easyricer]

About 8 years ago KuryAkyn advertised to their dealers that they had new back lit switches for 96 and up controls.... it never happened. (I called them and ordered 5 sets knowing my customers would love them) Yesterday Bikers Choice advertised that they have some, again I ordered 5 sets! We'll see how they turn out, but if they do what they are advertised to do I think I'll up-grade my controls! (now just gotta figure out how to remove the clutch lever nice n clean like)
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[Robertgtti]

done....

except for one little detail.
the damn thing won't start
doesn't spark i guess.

[Robertgtti]

just figured out I dont have power to the coil.

crap.....
now how do i fix this  with the gastanks on the bike?

[Robertgtti]

I have 2 wires on the coil.
one from the ignition and one going to the dash.

sould i locate the one going to the dash and make sure its on the first position breaker?

[Robertgtti]

just for testing purposes,
can I run a wire from the top of the coil straight to the battery?

[easyricer]

For testing, yeah no sweat. Did you check the coil with a test light to see if you have power or not?
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[Robertgtti]

been testing everything that comes to mind.

there is no power to the coil, but when I take a wire straight from the battery to the top of the coil, I still dont get a spark.

stuff is confusing the "Potty mouth" out of me.

[Lew]

You may have a couple problems.  Check power to and from the handlebar switch.   No spark from the coil after hotwiring it would indicate a problem with the ignition unit in the cam cover or it's wiring..or a bad coil.

[Robertgtti]

the power to the handlebar is ok,
starterbutton works and the bike turns over fine.

ignition and coil were working fine on the bench 2 months ago.
when the motor was started after a rebuild.

now after installing it in the bike, it wont work.

everthing else is working, lights, horn, starter etc.

[Lew]

OK, you have power to the coil from the handlebar switch.
No spark could mean the coil is bad or the ignition unit or it's wiring is bad.  You can check the coil.  First remove the wire from the coil that is coming from the ignition unit in the cam cover.  Get a condenser used for a points triggered system and connect it's lead wire to the coil terminal that has the handlebar switch wire on it.  Then connect the condenser body (metal can) to ground or to the coil terminal that had the ignition unit wire connected to it.  Then you need to add a wire from ground to that terminal.  Pull a plug and connect it to a plug wire and ground the plug body.  Turn on the key switch and then turn on and off the handlebar switch.  You should see the plug/s sparking each time you cycle the handlebar switch to the off position.  If there is sparking the coil is good and the problem is in the ignition unit or it's wiring.   

[Robertgtti]

you mean the start/stop switch?

i don have that one anymore.

I just have horn, start and high/low
maybe messed something up there?

[easyricer]

OK so we know that there is power to the switch. If it were in front of me, I'd take my test light out and start checking. I am guessing we are talking about electronic ignition. First start at the white power wire from the coil or ignition module. Does it have power? If not, trace it back to the switch at every splice or terminal until you find power.
I tell my customers the same thing I was taught years ago, every electric problem can be found by starting at the positive side of the battery, trace the wires to the component that is not working and then back to the negative side of the battery.
Testing the coil itself, is a simple ohm test. The ohm reading of the coil is usually stamped on it, 3 or 5 ohm. If you put the meter between the pos and neg terminals you should get close to that reading. Depending on the ignition you have, the trigger unit will be different. Some are grounding systems, some use hall cells and others are magnetic pick up types. Testing these you will have to know which one you have.
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[Robertgtti]

found the problem,
coil was fried.

my mechanic gave me a whole bag full of ignition sensors, ignition modules, a new coil, and a special testbox to adjust the timing
so I could get it fixed without bringing her in.

luckily she fired up after replacing the coil.

Just have to get my clutch finetuned as its a bit rough and neutral isn't easy to find anymore.


forgotten how much fun these things are.

[easyricer]

I just had an issue very similar to that. This cat brought a 76 Ironhead bobber in last week. Described the problems he was having as "I'm riding down the road and she'll start cutting out, I kill the key for a just a second and she'll pick back up again for a a few minutes then start loosing power and she'll cut out again."
From his description of the problem I ordered a new regulator. He also wanted me to clean up the wiring as much as possible. I didn't ride his scooter but it sat and ran for about 45 min on my table while I warmed it up for an oil change and adjusted the carb and timing. He comes out, picks up his bike and is back in less than an hour saying same problem but not loosing power, just cutting out.  So I looked under the cover at his ignition (Crane Hi4) and the little LED was flashing a little erratic when I held the throttle open, just a little. Next it started to cut out again, and the little LED just stayed on and the motor died. (Ign Module seems toast)
He was having a REALLY bad day to start with, but I told him I can get a few parts together over night and get him running. When I got home I pulled out my old points plate and advance unit and threw them in the saddle bags. Yesterday morning, I put it all in got his bike set up again. The cat shows up, "No Charge, just call me and tell that took care of it".
Sometimes a missed diagnosis, is not a bad thing. Just gotta love electrical problems! He was pretty leery of me putting points in, so between me and my brother we explained a few of the benefits of an old vibrating powerhouse with points and I explained that my daily ride is running points that I have not even looked at since my trip to Arkansas last year.
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[Robertgtti]

people told me that points are way better.

The way I figure is that this bike has been running for 30 years with the original electronic ignition,
so why fix what isn't broken?

[Lew]

Good to hear you got it running.  Something to keep in mind, without a start/stop switch it's more likely to fry a coil from inadvertently leaving the ignition switch on too long without the engine running.

[Robertgtti]

I hope that never happens,
I'm pretty anal about leaving the ignition on when not running.

or for letting the bike run idle when not riding.

I try to avoid both as much as I can.

[Robertgtti]

its pretty hard to find neutral and shiffting isn'''t smooth at all.
according to the manual the cluttch is dragging slightly.

how do i fix this?
with the adjuster on the cable, making for less free play.
or do i screw the adjuster in the clutch itself in a bit further?

[Lew]

Providing the clutch has been set up correctly, screwing the cable adjuster out, will pull the clutch plates further apart when pulling the lever.

[Robertgtti]

i did the best I could,
first time I did it so I was pleasantly surprised I even got it to ride.

will give it a try tomorrow.
That is, if my wife doesn't decide to go into labour tonight.

[Lew]

will give it a try tomorrow.
That is, if my wife doesn't decide to go into labour tonight.


Yikes!  Good luck!

[Robertgtti]

Thanks!

the goal was to have the bike ready before our son is born.
If I can get the clutch fine-tuned the bike is done in time.

[Old Crow]

Cuttin' it kinda close.  Good luck...on both the kid and the bike.

[76shuvlinoff]

  let us know how it ALL works out. 

[Robertgtti]

Well crap....

guess its been a while..
son was born  April 22 2012   


haven't touched the bike  since. 

I tried everything I could with the clutch but I just cant get it.
everything I do requires another action that will render the first action useless.

for instance, if I screw out the adjuster the clutch works perfectly smooth,
but then I have no free play at the lever so I have to screw out the pushrod thing a quarter turn and that will leave me were I was to begin with.

[SE Road King]

the tranny is still in and I havent touched the bolts.

thats why I was thinking to do it as i described it, I know that the tranny is in the right place.

Best to shim the engine first

[Robertgtti]

shim the engine?

the bike is complete and running.

just need to fine tune the clutch.

thats proving to be a b*tch.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Could also be a worn shift fork, or a worn shift clutch/spacing?
Glad to see another fan of the man from Chandler, AZ.
Scott

[Robertgtti]

Tranny was smooth as can be when i took the bike apart.

Im 100% sure its an adjustment problem, one that is messing with my head.

[easyricer]

If you are running the older style clutch throw out bearing, just run it tight. Won't hurt anything. With the foot clutch, I make almost all of my adjustments in the primary. As long as the rod still slips over the pin, it's not too tight and will not cause the clutch to slip. (and there is little to no play)
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[Robertgtti]

my bike is an 81 with the cowpie tranny.

how can i see if its the old style brg?

i can get it adjusted perfectly but then when i loosen the rod a quarter turn its all down the drain.

would be good if i can leave the rod tight.

[easyricer]

You will have to remove the kicker cover to look inside. The wafer style will not hold up to running tight. You can order the old style throw out bearing kit from J&P, even the China bearings will do just fine.
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[billbuilds]

     Simply set the adjusting screw so the actuating arm is 13/16 away from the top-most portion of the cowpie tranny top (the short round barrel portion). No need to back off the screw any from that point. Then go on to set your free play at the lever. As long as the free play is set correctly your throw out bearing won't be spinning all the time and you should have proper disengagement when the lever is hauled in. Bill

[Hogman]

In case it hasn't been mentioned in a while, or y'all Might have forgot, a Spark Plug Makes a VERY Easy Measuring Device for that 13/16 measurement. I Have mine on a piece of Vacuum Hose for ease of putting it in the Space and removal.  H T H

[Robertgtti]

Well things came up and the shovel is gone.


I now have a 2003 xl883r untill I can save up enough for a FXDX 2001/2002 era.

[easyricer]

883R...Fun little canyon carvers! Sorry 'bout the Shovel but yer still on 2 and having fun at that! Enjoy!
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