TTS AFR, Map, RPM

[hog yild]

I would like to get a better understanding of how these AFR, Map and RPM work in relationship to, torque, power and fuel economy.
I understand that the best power is achieved somewhere around 13.0 to 1 in regards to AFR. I realize spark advance plays a part in all of this as well. I also know that 14.6 will give the best fuel economy. What I would really like to be able to do is set the cruising AFR to the 14.3 range yet have plenty of power when rolling on the throttle, so a transition into the 13.0 to 1 range. My cruising rpms will be in the 2500 to 3200, with 65mph being 2700rpms, 75mph being 3200rpms.
This is a heavy 07 Ultra. I guess my question is where do I transition the AFR from close loop 14.6 to 13.1.
Would you do it across the board at 3500rpm, all MAP's, 13.5, than 4000 at 13.2 etc?
What MAP setting do you go out of close loop, 70kPa or 80kPa on up?
What tells you when and where to move out of close loop on the AFR table for good mileage cruising, but having as close to full power when you want it?

[Steve Cole]

Take DataMaster and log a file of you cruising in the range your talking about. Then playback the recording and look at the RPM and Map values. This will let you know whaere cruse really is on your setup. Once you've located that set your closed loop around that in the AFR table. Then go to the Closed loop bias and set that same area to a value to get you 14.4 AFR. Now the MAP area greater than your cruise area start changing the value towards 14.2 values. This allows the bike to start changing towards the richer mixture while it's still in closed loop. Then on the AFR table outside of your cruise area switch to open loop settings. You will need to play with the settings to get a good balance of where, when and how much to find a good balance.

[hog yild]

Steve, I assume I would do the cruise DataMaster run after I have my VTune completed to get the VE tables right?
After the cruise DataMaster runs and than setting the Close Loop Bias Tables set to give me 14.4 and transitioning to 14.2 in these areas of the table, will I need to collect Vtune data and re-VTune to update the VE Tables for the new Close Loop Bias?

[FLTRI]

Not Steve but think I can answer your questions:

Steve, I assume I would do the cruise DataMaster run after I have my VTune completed to get the VE tables right?

Yes.

After the cruise DataMaster runs and than setting the Close Loop Bias Tables set to give me 14.4 and transitioning to 14.2 in these areas of the table, will I need to collect Vtune data and re-VTune to update the VE Tables for the new Close Loop Bias?

No.
Hope this helps,
Bob

[hog yild]

It does help. Over night I came up with some more questions if you all don't mind. I'm trying to understand the AFR Table and how the Close Loop Bias influences it.

When I look at the base map I started with PS176-002, adjusted for 96.7ci. I see the AFR table having 14.6 in the cells from 750rpm up to 4500rpm and from a MAP of 30kPa to 80kPa.
When I look at the Close Loop Offset Table it has a range of 1000rpm to 3000rpm and a Map range of 30kPa to 95 kPa.

So it's very clear what is happening in the AFR table cells of 14.6 between the range shown in the Close Loop Bias Table, but what happens to the AFR Table cells that are set at 14.6 and are outside of the Close Loop Bias range? Are they somehow affected by the bias as well?

Also I am street tuning this bike in 45 to 55 degree weather, how is the MAP affected by this?
Am I looking at re-VTuning this bike when the summer heat starts, or will my VE table be ok and I will just need to make data runs to adjust fuel or spark as the summer heat comes along?

[Steve Cole]

Your fuel will be fine if you Vtune it now in the cooler weather but as you noted you may need to adjust the spark during the summer heat. As for the AFR table setting versus the CLB table setting they do not have to have the same set points or what we call breakpoints. So if the AFR table has a 14.6 @ 750 and the CLB is set at 1000 RPM you will use that value. So everything below the set point uses that value. Hope this explains it well enough.

[hog yild]

Great info here Steve, thank you. I don't want to over do more than I have too.

I think you have explained the lower rpms and maps of the Close Loop Bias vs. the AFR table. But what about the AFR table cells that have 14.6 cell values above the 3000rpm limit of the Close Loop Bias table. Does TTS extrapolate the Close Loop Bias up into these higher rpm levels?

This is more for my understanding. I fully expect my 14.6 cells will be ending somewhere in the 3000rpm range after I do the cruising Data run and look at the rpms and map numbers.

[Steve Cole]

It's the same deal. It uses the values in the 3000 RPM point of the CLB table all the way up to redline.

[hog yild]

Thanks guys for your help. I'm sure I'll have question later this summer when I look at the spark tables.

[glens]

After the cruise DataMaster runs and than setting the Close Loop Bias Tables set to give me 14.4 and transitioning to 14.2 in these areas of the table, will I need to collect Vtune data and re-VTune to update the VE Tables for the new Close Loop Bias?

No.

Bob, is the answer really that simple?  Obviously no VTune data need be gathered in any areas where the target AFR has been dropped out of closed-loop operation.  And on the one hand, I can see that changing a CLB a few percent isn't going to amount to any more than that same few percent change in any VE tables as a result of re-VTuning, but I'd really like to get this discussed just a bit further as it seems in part to be a change of instruction regarding the VTune process.

Best I know, up until this time it has been stated that the CLBs should be set to the chosen values prior to performing the VTune process, and that if they get changed, it should be repeated.  Like I said, I've not seen really any appreciable difference either way in terms of VE values generated. 

But there are ramifications regarding what basically amounts to the "center-points" for the AFVs, right?

Also, when the applicable CLB is set to 500 mV while VTuning, a change to "14.5" there will result in approximately "14.5", but if that CLB was 800 mV, the "14.5" specified in the AFR table isn't going to actually be "14.5" now, is it?  (This question is asked for the sake of general educational purpose.  The system does have some idiosyncrasies...)

[FLTRI]

But there are ramifications regarding what basically amounts to the "center-points" for the AFVs, right?

Steve will have to answer this. I'm not sure that would be an issue.

Also, when the applicable CLB is set to 500 mV while VTuning, a change to "14.5" there will result in approximately "14.5", but if that CLB was 800 mV, the "14.5" specified in the AFR table isn't going to actually be "14.5" now, is it?  (This question is asked for the sake of general educational purpose.  The system does have some idiosyncrasies...)

If one was to use 14.5 for open loop tuning in the AFR table, the CLB offset would change the AFR a bit richer than 14.5, should end up around 14.2.
That said if that much enrichment is a problem where applied, I would retune.
Bob