Which welder.

[ICANTD55]

Been looking at welders for a year now.
After checking out linclon,miller and hobart it seems that I can get more bang for the buck with Hobart.
The two I am going back and forth on is the tigmaster and the hobart 210 w/ spool gun.
Havent done much tig but have done a lot of brazeing and stick welding.

Just wondering if I would be better off with the tig or the mig with a spoolgun.

Thanks Rick.

[Ultrashovel]

Miller, Lincoln and hobart are the three best (IMHO) with Hobart being the lowest priiced of the three as you have found out. If you are planning on doing mainly mild steel, a MIG would be fine. With a MIG, you can weld either with straight CO2 or 75/25 Argon/CO2 shielding gas and solid wire (GMAW) or use flux cored wire (FCAW) without gas. With different gas, straight Argon, for example, you can do stainless steel or, with a spool gun, aluminum. With a MIG and stainless steel or aluminum, the results are good but not near as pretty as with TIG.

TIG is a different issue. It's slower and a bit more difficult to master than MIG. In either case, your metal needs to be very clean. TIG is very similar to welding with an oxygen-acetylene torch rig. I started out with oxy-acetylene so TIG was easy for me.

I have both types of welders. I have a Lincoln 220 Volt SP175 Plus (Now superceded by the Lincoln 180 versions). It's terrific for anything up to 1/4" steel. I use straight CO2 which gives a bit more splatter but has deep penetration in mild steel.

For stainless, aluminum and some mild steel, I use my TIG (Tungsten inert gas) with staight argon. Whan welding with TIG on aluminum, you generally need to have a machine that will provide A/C current. I'm mainly a home shop welder on motorcycle and other items and I use TIG and MIG both quite regularly. It's my main hobby. I have a Miller Syncrowave 200 which does everything I need. I also have a small Mill-Drill and a 13 X 40 lathe which help to support my welding habit.

If you are going to do lots of fabrication wit mild steel, say prior to chrome plating, the MIG on solid wire is probably your best bet for starters. In general you can't go wrong with Miller, Lincoln or Hobart. I would definitely stay away from any welder made in China. Although they work OK and some are nice, there is little support. Repair shops don't like to work on the them due to the lack of information and parts.

I don't have (or want) a spool giun since I have a TIG and don't need to use the MIG for stainless steel or aluminum. If you do aluminum with a MIG, you will need a spool gun to feed the soft wire properly since it doesnt like to be pushed the 10 or 15 feet through the MIG torch cable.

An added feature on most TIG machines is the capability to do stick welding. I got started with Stick welding when I was a mechanic many years ago. I still enjoy it. It takes a knqack but with the proper heat and rod, you can make some really beautiful welds. Also, it's very fast and unlike TIG, not too much cleaning is required..

I took a one year class about ten years ago when I decided to make welding and fabrication a hobby. I've never been sorry for the class because I learned to do some things you don't ordinarily encounter such as out of position welding. I'm not a certified welder since I only work for myself. I would suggest taking a class locally at a community college like many budding welders do.

I recently built a winch-powered reverse for my Harley sidecar. It uses a 3000# Gorilla ATV winch and moves the sidecar wheel. It's designed to work on level pavement (I dont do any cow-trailing with my Harley sidecar rig). I mention it only because I did all of the welding and fabrication myself and spernt only abot $100. You can save thousands of dollars doing your own work on bikes.

Sorry to be long here but I love welding! 

[ICANTD55]

Ultrashovel

Thanks for the time and effort on the post. I am sure we are in the same boat. I have to bring everything I need welded to work and do it after hours with a welder that is a POS.
I am leaning toward the Tig because of the amount of differant materials I will be able to work with. This will hopefuly be my Xmas present to me 
I also checked into tig clases at the local vocational school but they wont run a class untill they have enought students.
the syncrowave 200 was actualy my first choice but it looks like the same guts for the hobart as far as I can tell Miller makes Hobart same spool gun on the two migs I was looking at.
Still trying to get the garage set up and have a long way to go on the tool list. This is gonna take a long time LOL.

[Don D]

All covered well
I can't emphasize the need for a tig if you want to weld aluminum. A spool gun and mig is not the way to go unless you are making beverage container trailers, LOL

[FXDBI]

Not looking for a argument from Dewysheads but a spool gun with argon for a shielding gas and the right prep is the best way to weld new aluminium. Tig needs ac-high frequency and some type of cleaner to work well. A variable rheostat on a foot peddle is also a great help for the tig on aluminium. You cant beat the job you get with a spool gun and argon gas on aluminium plate etc. The DC power reacts with the argon gas and you get a superheated effect that cleans the weld. Also a 40-45 degree bevel with a chisel edge {no land} will help get full penetration. TIG is better for repairs to used aluminium,pot metal etc, and a must for quality stainless work. My advice would be to get a TIG unit that will also accept a spool gun,and you have it all covered. But then what would i know only been a certified B-pressure welder for 20+yrs and had my own welding company for 10.....Bob

[ICANTD55]

Thanks Don
I am sure I will be doing some aluminum work.
I have never used a spool gun so didn't know how good they worked.
I figred I will be able to build a stand for it when I get it . First project.
Its got to be better that the old tombstone I have been using.

Bob
thanks for the info on the spool gun. I prewired the garage for both a mig and a tig . My budget will only allow for around $1500.00 THIS YEAR. So to cover most materials including aluminum and stainless would you recommend the tig over the mig for the first purchase. I havent seen a tig with a spool gun set up yet but it sure sounds like its over my budget.LOL.

Thanks Rick

[FXDBI]

http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/tig/tigmate/

Is this the machine your looking at? If so this is the way to go. This will give you the best range of use by far over a MiG machine. Wire feed is for production welding. Pretty sure you could get a spool gun to work on that hobart down the line if you wanted to fab a whole mess of aluminium. I also find the foot control much easier to use than the thumb control, very handy on the aluminium TIG......Bob

[Don D]

I hear you Bob and no argument. My frame of reference is different.
Me too, welder in previous career, pipeline.
I have both Mig and Tig machines and have never had the need for production aluminum fab. All the welding I do is on aluminum castings, TIG, with gas shields, HF, 100% Argon sometimes mixed gas when I need a little more heat.

[ICANTD55]

Yes that is the exact Tig I have my Eye on.
good info guys.
Thanks

[mayor]

Rick,

you may want to pay particular attention to duty cycle when comparing welders.  Not all welders in the same price range are created equal. 

[Ultrashovel]

That Hobart is nice in its size range. With 150 amps, you are limited however. I have 200 amps and sometimes, you feel like you need more. They rate it at 3/16" and at 150 amps, that's at max. Generally you might consider that you will need one amp per .001 thickness. With most any sort of aluminum other than sheet, you will be turned up quite a bit. They don't state the duty cycle but that's something that you will want to look at before you buy.

Most welders will prefer TIG for aluminum over MIG with a spool gun. On issue is that those spool guns are rather expensive unless you can find a cheap one. Also, they are heavy and you have to hold it while you are welding.

As to other features, there is no pulse feature for TIG and no DIG (non-sticking feature for stick welding) or statement regarding whether or not it has variable square wave, which is a nice feature. They show a list price of around $2,000.

For the same price, you can get a Syncrowave 200 runner on eBay with free shipping from Indiana Oxygen (IOC). It's best to shop around. I gave you a link. I'm not against Hobart at all, but for that kind of money you can get more power and features with Miller or Lincoln.

Good Luck.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLER-SYNCROWAVE-200-RUNNER-907308011_W0QQitemZ390008879956QQihZ026QQcategoryZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Showdog75]

Miller Dynasty 200DX hands down . I'll elaborate later when I have more time .

[Don D]

If you are welding castings you need more power and more importantly a high duty cycle machine with good torch cooling

[ICANTD55]

Keep it coming guys I would like to be able to weld castings. Like every other budget I set it gets squashed if I need to. Somehow I see more side jobs in my future  
I may have to save a little longer to get into a little bigger unit. And I will have to rethink the amp draw I set a designated 230v 60 amp circuit aside for the tig. Anything bigger than the Syncrowave® 200 or the Hobart may be a problem.
So I would have to look into the amp draw of a larger unit And reconfigure some things in my panel but it may be doable.
I think I pulled 8 gage for the Tig I will have to double check.
I would like to be able to repair cracked fins on heads. I got a buddy with a shovel and no money so that thing keeps me pretty busy.
The good news is the guy with the shovel is an electrican 
Looks like the Dynasty® 200 is about a grand more.
I should consider the RF that may reek havoc on my neighbors.+

The 200 has a better duty cycle at 150 amp 40% vs 30% on the hobart. Will the Syncrowave 200 fit the bill?? Or do I still need a biger unit to weld cast?

[Ultrashovel]

Keep it coming guys I would like to be able to weld castings. Like every other budget I set it gets squashed if I need to. Somehow I see more side jobs in my future  
I may have to save a little longer to get into a little bigger unit. And I will have to rethink the amp draw I set a designated 230v 60 amp circuit aside for the tig. Anything bigger than the Syncrowave® 200 or the Hobart may be a problem.
So I would have to look into the amp draw of a larger unit And reconfigure some things in my panel but it may be doable.
I think I pulled 8 gage for the Tig I will have to double check.
I would like to be able to repair cracked fins on heads. I got a buddy with a shovel and no money so that thing keeps me pretty busy.
The good news is the guy with the shovel is an electrican 
Looks like the Dynasty® 200 is about a grand more.
I should consider the RF that may reek havoc on my neighbors.+

The 200 has a better duty cycle at 150 amp 40% vs 30% on the hobart. Will the Syncrowave 200 fit the bill?? Or do I still need a biger unit to weld cast?

You really don't need a lot of power to weld fins back on Harley heads as they are rather thin. A preheat is good for that sort of work and you wouldn't need much power. I've welded several sets of exhaust stubs onto Panhead cylinder heads and that takes at least 150-200 amps after a good preheat. I have a fixture I built to hold the heads in my milling machine. I mill the old worn and broken stubs off and and then weld new ones on that I turn on my lathe from thick wall tubing. I preheat to about 250 degrees and they go right on.

The place you will have more difficulty is with cracks in transmission cases, crankcases (other than mounts on the outside) and primary inners and outers. The early sandcast versions are generally quite porous and are full of oil. The later ones (after about 1978) are better if they are die cast. The problem with them in general is that they will just pour oil out when you start welding. Some of them, in fact are so full of oil that even if you succeed in cleaning them well enough so that you can weld them, the welds may have porosity.

Someone mentioned the Miller Dynasty 200 DX. That's an inverter machine. They are very nice indeed but they are pricey and if they break after warranty, repairs are very high. They do work well and have a great many features but I don't use half the features I have right now. One nice thing is that they are small and light enough so that they are portable. I'm not sure but they may even have multi-voltage capability. They are quite nice but definitely a lot more jack.

For about 15 years, I had a Lincoln Idealarc TIG/Stick 250/250. It was a nice machine but had no square wave capability. I traded that off to get the Miller Syncrowave 200 about a year ago and have enjoyed it so far. I don't care about portability since I only weld for myself and friends. that said, the Syncrowave 200 has ample power for anything you will encounter on a motorcycle.

Probably the best advice would be to buy a bit more power than you think you will be needing. Sooner or later, you may also be wanting/needing a MIG. I'm assuming that you already have a set of Oxy-Acetylene tanks. If you listen to me, though, you'll wind up broke but at least you'll have a lot of tools. When it comes to tools, I either have one or I thought about buying one. LOL.

Happy Trails.

[jsachs1]

MILLER..........absolute best money can buy.100% copper windings,etc.
I've owned my Dialarc 250HF since 1980,and other than a few power cables(my fault),and 1 water solenoid,there has never been a minutes worth of trouble.It has been a high mileage unit that keeps coming back for more.
John

[Memnar]

When I was in outside welding sales the Hobarts were not as good as Lincoln or Miller.

I think Miller owns Hobart now but I think the Hobarts aren't built with as good components as Miller.
just my 2 cents....

[Ultrashovel]

When I was in outside welding sales the Hobarts were not as good as Lincoln or Miller.

I think Miller owns Hobart now but I think the Hobarts aren't built with as good components as Miller.
just my 2 cents....

I don't think you can go wrong with either Miller or Lincoln. Hobart is OK but, as you say, I've also heard that the components may not be as good

[Admiral Akbar]

How about these guy's

http://www.htpweld.com/

Service is good but have not blown up an inverter welder yet... 

Max

[ClassicRider2002]

WELDERS? ? ? ? ?

ummmmmm excuse me......ummmmm I am of course not the "police" but doesn't this discussion belong in the "GENERAL" SECTION and not the TWIN CAM SECTION?      lol

Funniest part of all this "THREAD" has been read over 400 times....LOL.....shaking my head!!!!

Regards,

"Classic"

edit:  definitely no offensive taken here.....LOL.....

[ICANTD55]

This is where I live on this board not the general section. I trust the advice I get from the guys right here sorry if I offended anybody but that is the way it is.    And as far as I am concerned it is a tool of the trade.

I think about all I can swing will be the syncrowave 200. I may have to rethink the whole thing, I pissed of the engineer at work today .Im not sure what set him off but when I questioned him, he had no clue. Maybe it was the nerd pouch thing.
Thanks for all the post guys I am gonna go with the 200.
Rick

[CraigArizona85248]

...

ummmmmm excuse me......ummmmm I am of course not the "police" but doesn't this discussion belong in the "GENERAL" SECTION and not the TWIN CAM SECTION?      lol

...

Well... I guess I am the "police"... While this subject would do very well on the General section, I'm not inclined to move it or penalize anyone for putting it here.  As with all "police" we try not to get worked up over the little things the really don't make a lot of difference.

ICANTD55, the topic is just fine here on the TC board.  Don't give it another thought.

-Craig

[Memnar]

...

ummmmmm excuse me......ummmmm I am of course not the "police" but doesn't this discussion belong in the "GENERAL" SECTION and not the TWIN CAM SECTION?      lol

...

Well... I guess I am the "police"... While this subject would do very well on the General section, I'm not inclined to move it or penalize anyone for putting it here.  As with all "police" we try not to get worked up over the little things the really don't make a lot of difference.

ICANTD55, the topic is just fine here on the TC board.  Don't give it another thought.

-Craig

Thank you Craig. I agree.

[ClassicRider2002]

penalize anyone for putting it here.... ? ? ? 

Craig,

You seem to be directing your comment to me and trying to point out something? ? ? ? 

I think my position was taken a bit more "extreme" than how I meant it.....while initially I found it humorus to be talking about welders here in the TWIN CAM section.....and while the topic itself certainly is a wonderful one....although I am not a welder....it's just that if I were doing a search I certainly wouldn't think about searching for a topical discussion about "welders" in the TWIN CAM section is all......the question might be why would anyone do a search about "welders" here within HTT to begin with....well I certainly would try if I had an interest as it relates to motorcycles....So while my comment may seem to reflect that I was being a "smarta**" I assure you my intent was not.

And while I am only a member here, I still think it is important to keep these Sections consistant to help those of us who do searches to find them.....but...like I said, I "is" not the police, and Craig you feel pretty empowered to say you are....so all is good here.....

I was not trying to ridicule anyone merely making a observation and apparently this does not belong in the "General" section it belongs right here in the "TWIN CAM" Section.

Regards,

"Classic"

[CraigArizona85248]

Classic,

You and I are in agreement that this post would probably be best targeted at the General board.  My point was I don't think it's a big enough deal to do anything about.  As far as feeling I'm empowered to be the "police"... yes, I do that is my role as an administrator.  "Police" was your word which I used in my response.  In all honesty though, this job is more like herding cats then police work  .

In the past the admins have taken a lot of criticism for removing threads that were off-topic.  We are trying to be more flexible and that is really the point of my first response.  It is an imperfect world and some topics may be better suited for a different board.  But unless it's really causing a problem they will remain where they are posted.  Also, the original poster (ICANTD55), said he was most comfortable with the responses from those who frequent this board.  I can understand that.

-Craig

[ICANTD55]

Guys I simply looked at the welder as a tool. But it is not twin cam specific,  My Bad.
I just assumed that the general section was more for bull shiting than tech. Again My Bad.
The guys I hoped would weight in on the subject Did.
So you can do what you want with this thread I'm happy.

Really didn't set out to piss is anybodies coolaid.
Next time I ask about a tool that is not twin cam specific I will post in general.
Die tread Die.

[ClassicRider2002]

Craig....

thank you for your response....I appreciate your position and how you stated it.....

LOL and for the 3rd time.....well...lol forget the 3rd time....

Quietly fading......

Regards,

"Classic"