New project starting up - 1954 FL

[Little Al]

Well guys, be prepared for lots and lots of questions. I'm finally ready to get a serious start on my 1954 FL.

I'm not a purist and not looking to enter into any competition. I want to use original parts when it's reasonable to do so but I won't go crazy over it. In the end I want a 1954 that looks pretty much original as it may have been used by a rider back then, not necessarily like when it came off the showroom floor. I will ride this bike regularly. My daily ride now is an '83 Shovel and I may give the Shovel & this Pan equal road time.

I bought the motor & trans about a year and a half ago, it's been apart on my kitchen table since. I just bought a (probably) 1951 frame. I've assembled quite a few parts over the last few years, both original & repo, through eBay, swap meets, etc. I've wanted a '54 (year of my birth) for a long time and it took me about 7 years to find the motor/trans/title combo I wanted. In the meantime I collected parts. Now I'm ready to start.

I live in New York City, have no garage so build will be done in my kitchen (I've done this more then once before). If money & time hold up I'd like to have it rideable by April and ready for a 4000 + round trip to Sturgis in August 2009.

I'll document what I'm doing with pictures on Photobucket and of course ask about 5 billion questions here since you guys are the single best source of collective (and shared) knowledge on Pans I've ever come across. In the frustrating labor of love I'm about to start I my forget sometimes along the way, so let me state it clear as a bell right now:
HTT and Pan Board guys, you are the very BEST and THANK YOU for all your help.

Sometime today I'll try and get this off to a good start by listing what I have and asking (see, it's starting already, lol) what my first steps should be.

I hope you guys stick with me through this and maybe even get some enjoyment out of my project, for those of you that are done and miss the building and for those of you longing to build but ain't ready, and those of you in the middle of a build that need a to cry your frustration out over a beer with someone else in the middle of a project.

Thanks again, all of you, in advance!

Little Al

[moose]

hi little al

I'm doing the same type of project on my 50 pan. It was a fully running bike when put away in 1964 now it is a basket case looking to be put back together step by step

[Little Al]

Jersey shore huh? When we both have 'em done we'll have to meet up with them!

[Little Al]

so here's a fairly complete list of what I have so far in varying conditions:

51(?) frame
original motor
original trans
original inner primary tin
repo outer primary tin
repo trumpet horn
super E carb & matching manifold
SS air cleaner
original round HD air cleaner
complete motor gasket set
original handlebars with internal throttle
original front wheel complete (mech brakes)
original rear wheel complete (converted to juice brakes)
mousetrap set-up with cover
original buddy seat
1 extra original rear cylinder
2 extra original rear heads (bare)
2 extra original front heads (bare)
a large coffee can full of various nuts & bolts & studs, many parkerized
original tank shift gate, linkage and lever
oil pump rebuilding kit
wrong year (probably) oil bag
various other small parts

When I bought the motor/trans it was in a 1971 raked swingarm frame. it ran well. the guy I bought it from in Selma, Alabama was in a serious car accident and sold it because he'd never be able to ride again (we kept in touch and his wife just let me know he died last month) before it was parked after his accident it was his daily ride. He gave me 4 milk crates filled with spare parts and parts he took off over the years (he bought it when it was 9 years old). it's already set up for 12 volts with a CE generator & regulator. still has points & original distributor (probably gonna keep points, don't know yet)

major parts I need are a complete front end (thinking repo springer, I think '54 came springer or Hydro?), all tins (figure all repo including gas tank). He had a mousetrap but I'm gonna go back to tank shift.

that's about all I can think of at the moment. Sorry for being so long winded!

Little Al

[CraigArizona85248]

Little Al,

In 1949 you could still order the FL/EL with a springer fork.  But in 1950 and later it's not listed as a "option group".  You might have still been able to order it that way, but all the option groups listed included the HydraGlide fork.

-Craig

[Little Al]

Craig,
not that I would have doubted you anyway, but I took a page from your book (pun intended, lol) and read the first 2 chapters from Palmer's last night, just sat back and read it like a novel. Definitely the most fascinating read I've had in a long time!
Anyway, of course your correct so I'll be looking for a glide front end.

I gotta start raising some serious money now too, I better get the "leftover" stuff from my bike on ebay. I have the '71 frame, wideglide front end, and quite a few misc non-original or wrong year parts laying around my spare bedroom (aka parts warehouse)

Little Al

[paysonpan]

Al,
I will be watching your posts and progress with interest. I too will be working on a Pan this winter. I have had some of the motor parts for close to 20 years .Picking up parts as I could afford them or when a great deal came my way.This will be a mutt bike built with 90% OEM parts. My motor was just completed last week and it is a thing of beauty. 55FL bottom end,stock HD .10 over jugs and pistons,front head is a 54,rear is a 49,both heads completely redone,Knucklehead oil pump,Sifton412 cam,solids,65 auto advance curcuit breaker,rebuilt LinkertM74B with stock air cleaner, also have a CV but I love the Linkert look. Tranny is a 57, all new and pretty as well.
I have a 51 wishbone with a slight rake that I ran for years with an 86inch 63 FLH motor with 66 Shovelheads.Still have that motor in a 61 swingarmframe.My next cash outlay will be having the frame deraked.Have rims,starhubs,brakes,tins,Glide front end,56 Speedo.Just need to pick up small "Potty mouth" and have some fun.
I too will be asking many questions I am sure and appreciate all who participate on this board.
I will post pics when I figure out how as I am not much of tech guy.
Good luck with your project.

[chris haynes]

A 1954 engine in a 1951 frame will be nothing but a mutt. There were actually three different frames used in 1954 depending on the number on your engine there were two different Wishbone frames and any bike with a serial number higher than 4,000 will be in a Straightleg frame. All 1954 Big Twins used the Hydra Glide fork. Keep reading Bruce's book. Know what you are doing/buying so you don't have to do/buy again to make it right. It takes no more trouble to gather the correct parts than it does to gather wrong parts.

[Pzokes]

It might be worth the extra time to get the right frame now.....but read Palmer, maybe you have the right frame already.  Don't trade or sell anything in those boxes until you completely read Palmer.  You probably can swap & sell what you don't need for what you do need.   

Living in an apartment in the city brings back memories.   When I lived in the city, I would dissasemble my bike in the winter and walk the parts up three flights of stairs.  Many of my friends did the same thing.  We'd rebuild them in the winter, then in the spring we'd bring them back down to the street and resassemble them....it was sorta funny going up to someone's apartment to see the new paint job on their tank, frame, and fenders that they just got back from the painter.

Are you going to have to keep it chained on the streets too? 

Good luck on your trip, when you get it finished.  I have a '48 that I have sitting in the garage ready for a '48 state ride.  Hopefully I'll get enough free time next year to do it.

[Little Al]

Chris,

Mutt or not I beleive I'll be happy. I know some of you guys are purest's, I'm not, I just want a '54 that is reasonably accurate in looks and function. I haven't the time nor money for a true restoration. Some may argue that but it is my money, time and bike. I read through Palmer's frame stuff and I'm just about positive it's a '51 frame and absolutely positive is from the era I need. Definitely close enough for me. After all I'm using 12 volt system, many repo parts, etc. I'll never sell it, spent too many years looking for it. Maybe when I get too old to ride it I'll think about an actual restoration. I need it reliable too as I'll be riding it a ton of miles (I'm an IBA rider too) and it IS after all 54 years old!

Pzokes,

good advise on the frame and parts keeping in mind what I said about "restoration". I will in fact try to keep it original and accurate within (my) reason.
I'm not THAT bad anymore on the apartment stuff (used to live in a 3rd floor walk up in Little Italy) as I now live on Staten Island, but all I have is a tiny backyard and work long hours so the kitchen works for me. and being a typical New Yorker, I don't cook and eat out every meal. Once the bike is done it will go outside in a small shed along with my other girls ('83 FXR Shovel, '00 EG, '08 Ultra, '76 sporty) but no room to work out there in the dark cold winter nights, lol

good luck to you too on the 48 on the '48, a great sounding ride. wish I had the time for something like that. I do Iron Butts because I don't get much vacation time so most trips for me are 2500 miles in a 3 day weekend.

Little Al

[Pzokes]

The frame is an easy one day replacement if you decide to switch it sometime.  The "nosepickers" won't know the difference anyway.  You are lucky to have a ground level storage for the bikes.  Chaining them to a telephone pole and covering them with a tarp sucks.  My '48 is converted to 12 volt too.  Who wants to look for a 6 volt bulb in the middle of Kansas?

The Iron Butt Rally is cool.  My friend got accepted for the next one.  He's going to add a fuel cell to cut his gas stops down.

[moose]

my fun began a few weeks ago. although mine is a 50 pan it is mostly all original except the first owner painted it some off color. all my stuff is in bags to clean and re parkerize or cad plate. have to clean up a couple of chrome pieces then send them out to be rechromed. looking for a good head person was going to use headhog but he is about 6 months out and I would like to get this going by spring. taking apart the lower end next week to see what I could find.

still looking for a stainless steel headlight backing with hydra glide stamped on it and 4 stripes

should have my camera working when I get home next week if you need any shots of anything that is original on a 50 would be glad to post (at least I think it was original)


from completly running to basket case in 8 hours

[Little Al]

Pzokes,

I agree with you about the frame and most importantly, I'm only worried about my satisfaction. anyone wants to criticize, send me a check and I'll get a correct original... lol
As far as the IBA is concerned, I have 4 certificates, 1000/24, 1500/36, 2000/48 and coast to coast (NY-San Fran) in less then 50 hours. Never asked to participate in the rally, I don't have that much time off from work! Good luck to you friend. I have a fuel cell (5 gallons) I used for the coast to coast, all the others i did with the standard 5 gallon on one of my EG's.

Moose,

good luck bro, I'm in the same place but it took me about 12 hours to go from a running Pan to a pile of parts spread over my kitchen floor, lol

I'd love to see some pics of your progress and as soon as I can I'll post more on Photobucket. And if repo is OK with you, that backing plate is available. J&P for sure has it and others might too.

[PanHeadDave]

Also on your Tranny 52 was the first year for foot shift /Mouse trap.
if your are going tank shift you will need the tank shift top  instead of the ratchet top.

PHD

[Erichill]

PHD,
I have tank shift with ratchet top. Works fine. What am I missing or doing wrong? Slap it forward to go up, back to go down. Nuetral between 1st and 2nd, but I do keep my foot on the clutch at stops.  I did make my own shift gate, to accomodate the longer throw.  I never had anything else, so I am curious, because this is not the first time I've heard this.
Thanks
Eric

[CraigArizona85248]

Eric,

An OEM tank shift is not a "slap shift" setup like you have.  There is a different lid on the transmission that has no rachet mechanism.  The shift handle is pulled all the way back for first gear, forward a little for Neutral, forward a little more for 2nd, forward for 3rd and again forward a bit more for 4th.  Either way works, but you need the correct transmission lid of you want an OEM setup.

-Craig

[Little Al]

Panheaddave,
are you saying that the mousetrap setup was used exclusively on '52 and up? I was under the impression it was an option. although my '54 as purchased was in an early '70's swingarm frame the owner had it many, many years and he gave me parts for both setups. he told me the tank shift setup was original and he took it off and went mousetrap when he went to the swingarm frame.
I guess it's back to Palmers, lol although if i'm wrong I'm sure you guys will tell me.

Craig,
so your telling me the trans top I have now that was using mousetrap/foot shift setup will not work if I use OEM style shift gate and linkage?

now for the "idiot" question. How can I tell which trans top I have? how could I identify the right one if I need to get it since I believe nobody at swap meets. if I can't identify for myself it's what I want/need, I ain't buying it.

Thanks!

[CraigArizona85248]

Little Al,

Yes, if you want it to shift like a OEM setup using stock linkage and shift gate you need the proper lid.

Here is a photo of a 4 speed with the rachet top lid used for foot shift.  Notice the large rachet mechanism on the sprocket side of the transmission lid.



Here is a photo of a 4 speed with the hand shift lid.  No rachet mechanism.

[Little Al]

Thanks Craig.

No doubt about it, I have the ratchet top tranny.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, being at work and not looking at the stuff he gave me, I believe he actually gave me a setup for a jockey shift, not tank shift. that would have worked with the ratchet top since it was like a foot shift ratcheting through the gears rather then moving the shift forks and holding them in a position? Please tell me I have SOMETHING right in my head, lol

[chris haynes]

Little Al,

In 1949 you could still order the FL/EL with a springer fork.  But in 1950 and later it's not listed as a "option group".  You might have still been able to order it that way, but all the option groups listed included the HydraGlide fork.

-Craig

The only 1949 models that came with a Springer were the sidecar rigs, Servicars and 45".  No Big Twin had one in 1950. The Springer continued on all Servicars through 1957 and 45" through 1952.

[chris haynes]

Little Al,

In 1949 you could still order the FL/EL with a springer fork.  But in 1950 and later it's not listed as a "option group".  You might have still been able to order it that way, but all the option groups listed included the HydraGlide fork.

-Craig

Not quite order. The Springer fork was used on the sidecar equipped machines. Not available on solo models.

[Pynzo]

'49 used springers for the sidecar bikes because the hydraglide frontend was longer than the springer and changed the geometry of the macine resulting in a handling problem. '49 springer models had "SP" stamped at the end of the serial number on the left engine case. The factory introduced the adjustable trail hydraglide trees for '50 and up models to replace the springer on sidecar machines.

[Pzokes]

I've never seen an "sp" in a '49 Panhead number.  Would you post a picture of one?

I think that I saw on the AMCA website that there is documentation European bikes using springers after 1949.

I tend to lean towards what Palmer says with everything.  He did the research.

[Little Al]

Am I being naive if I ask if you are the Chris Haynes that collaborated with Bruce Palmer on his book? I see in the book that a Chris Haynes is credited for a lot of pictures and stuff, since the first time I saw you post i wondered if you were the same guy.

[Pynzo]

Pzokes- don't have a picture of the number, I came across this bike back in '97 and haven't seen it since. An old timer in Bucks County PA was riding it around one day, and having a '49 myself, I talked him up about it. I have only come across two original '49s in my travels and this one was the best. Original unrestored Utilty Group E with springer, motor number 49EXXXXXSP. He didn't know it was originally a sidecar bike. If I ever come across this dude again, I'll check to see if He'll let me snap a pic. Anyone ever notice that Col. Klink on Hogan's Heroes rides around in a black Hydraglide sidecar bike?

[CraigArizona85248]

... Anyone ever notice that Col. Klink on Hogan's Heroes rides around in a black Hydraglide sidecar bike?

Oh oh... now I'm gonna be watching Hogan's Heroes whenever I run across it on the tube.   

[Speeding Big Twin]

The model designation for 1949 springer Panheads was discussed some time ago on HTT but certain things were not resolved. On page 584 of Bruce Palmer's book, when talking about serial numbers, Palmer states: 'However, the P in the special Springer Big Twin models does appear but in an unorthodox manner.' That is an ambiguous description to say the least.

The partial picture below is from page 176 of Classic Harley Big Twins by Field and Murphy. Field mentions a P only. He also says the P is difficult to see in the photo. On page 173 he also mentions a P only. 

I have seen the bike in Hogan's Heroes. Apparently it was way ahead of its time, given that the war was not over.       Eric

[Pynzo]

Does he say anything about Traffic Combination VINs? I asked an old dealership owner about the SP and he remembered servicing some Police machines with that in the number, as well as '53 to '56 with the T.C. having some kinda extra letter. I think he said they had a the letter "E" in them.
I've looked in my '49 part book and it lists a number for a Hydraglide frontend for sidecar models 45506-49. Solo model fork listed as 45505-49. The only other part listing change is in the springs, 46051-49 sidecar, and 46052-49 solo. It also has a listing for headbearing spacer 46470-49 used on sidecar bikes. Did this part book come out before the changeover to spring forks? Issue date looks like May 1949.

[Speeding Big Twin]

Pynzo, my copy of Palmer's book is apparently the third printing and the Traffic Combination motor is listed in the book under First Year of Features for 1953. However, it isn't listed under Last Year of Features for 1956, although it should be. The list on page 4 of Palmer's book includes the following: 'Model FLE 1955-1965 [sic] special cam police 74 OHV'

Palmer states that the letter designation will be stamped in the serial number. I have several examples of this occurring for 1953-1956 and the E in all of them appears as shown in the 1954 partial serial below. Obviously the start year of 1955 in Palmer's page 4 list is incorrect along with the end year of 1965. And both those errors are repeated in a second and slightly different list on the book's back cover. There are also several other problems with the serial number info supplied in chapter 1 and some info that should have been included does not appear.

Field mentions the FLE being first introduced for 1953 and continuing through 1956.

I have an unrelated example of a special Small Twin with SP in the serial number although I can't confirm its authenticity. But I don't recall hearing about any police bike serial numbers bearing those two letters.

On page 5 Palmer mentions an S to denote sidecar use along with sidecar gearing and says he has been told of two 1936-1937 examples where an S appeared in the motor's serial number although he hasn't seen them.

One of my catalogs has all that info you mentioned and the issue date appears to be May 4, 1949. But I haven't got an answer regarding the catalog coming out before the changeover.     Eric

[Pynzo]

Thanks- I was told my my old timer friend that Shriners and other close order drill riders preferred the Traffic Combo bikes-74" motor with 61" cam and carb, for slow speed manuevering in parades. Seems you could let the clutch out without lunging with this setup.

[Pzokes]

Speeding Big Twin,

Is there much of an interest in antique Harleys in Australia?

[Speeding Big Twin]

Pynzo, that makes sense about the parades. When referring to the E-series being discontinued, Greg Field states in part: 'But the 61 had qualities that endeared it to police departments and commercial users. Its smaller carb and milder cam shaft made it ideal for escort work and use in heavy traffic. To compensate these users for the loss of their beloved 61, H-D introduced a special FLE "Traffic Combination" version of the 74 ...'

The September 1953 issue of The Enthusiast magazine mentions the traffic combination motors for 1954, stating in part: 'Excellent acceleration and low speed performance is obtained. This combination is popular for city police use.'

Field states that although the traffic combo had the 61 cam for 1953-1956 it only had the 61 carb for 1953-1954. He says that it had the 74 carb for 1955-1956. Palmer appears to partly concur because his book shows that for 1953-1954 the traffic combo had a special cam and carb. For 1955-1956 he mentions the special cam but not the carb. However, Palmer makes no mention of the 61 carb for the FLE under Last Year of Features for 1954. And neither does he mention the 74 carb for the FLE under First Year of Features for 1955.     Eric

[Speeding Big Twin]

Pzokes, good question. Two of my mates are members of the Vintage Motor Cycle Club here in West Aust and they both own early Harleys but I don't know how many other members have early H-Ds. Each year the Vintage Club hosts a swap meet which I attend and there is always a display of some members' bikes but I didn't get around to checking them out last year. I didn't see many Harleys on show there in years gone by.

Another local club I know of catered only for early American bikes. I knew a couple of members but I haven't seen them for ages. There were several Flathead Harleys involved and one guy owned a Knucklehead as well as a swingarm Panhead. The total amount of Knuckles I've come across in WA is about seven but the Panhead amount would probably be triple that.

I have a few mates with alternator Shovelheads here on the left coast and one with a 1967 model. I couldn't hazard a guess on how many Shovels there are in other states but a couple of my mates on the far north-east coast have them. A few of the local guys had Sportsters in the 1970s and 1980s but I hardly ever see an Ironhead these days. I spotted a 1957 Sportster in the paper a while back and was going to buy it just because it was a first year model but I was the second caller and I missed out.

On the east coast there is an annual event called The Great Race and all the bikes involved are either Indians or early Harleys. It's a time and reliability trial and attracts a lot of participants, including international riders. One of the organisers runs a dealership called Harley City and there are several early H-Ds on display in the shop museum. Two other east coast businesses are HD Development and Pacific H-D and both have been catering for early Harleys for many years. Richardson's in Tasmania also carries some early parts and in New South Wales there's a place called Yesteryear Motorcycles which specialises in 45" Flathead Harleys.

As far as I know there are still at least two big swap meets held in the east each year but we don't have anything that size in the west. So there is some interest in antique Harleys but I don't see that many of them on my side of the country.     Eric

[Pynzo]

Speeding Big Twin- Have you had any dealings with Pacific HD in West Gosford? I've been checking their website for NOS parts and it seems like they had a good amount of early parts I needed, Seems like a great shop to poke around in.

[Pzokes]

Not only was there a traffic combination bike, some of the big US cities wrote their bid requests for new motorcycles to favor what they thought were better features on Indians.  They would state that the motorcycles would have left side throttles, right side tank shifters, and three speed transmissions.  The three speed transmission was considered better in traffic, and the cops thought that they could shoot with their right hand while keeping their left hand on the throttle.  New York City was so obsessed with Indians that Indian went back into Chief production in 1953, building bikes with spare parts for their winning NYC bid.  Carryovers from this was Chicago's Harley three wheelers with right side tank shifts, and left side throttles into the 1960's.

[Speeding Big Twin]

Pynzo, I've only bought parts from Pacific H-D in Mt Wilson and it's a while ago. I can't remember what I got so it probably wasn't major stuff and I've also bought some small bits and pieces from HD Development over the years. I got a couple of used genuine H-D ribbed tool boxes from Yesteryear Motorcycles that I'm using on my Pan and my Evo and I bought two genuine used Panhead cylinders from Richardson's a couple of years ago. No complaints about any items so far.     Eric

[Pynzo]

Speeding Big Twin- Thanks for the info!

[Speeding Big Twin]

Continuing from my comments at reply #26 about the letter P, one month later I ran across the serial number below but never got around to posting. Is the P authentic? I don't know. Obviously it fits Palmer's description when he states: 'However, the P in the special Springer Big Twin models does appear but in an unorthodox manner.'

Greg Field gives a better description and it also fits: '... a letter "P" is stamped lightly at the end of the serial number string in a larger letter size ...'

I've blacked out three of the characters for obvious reasons but they, along with the first four characters and the eighth one, are all usual styles for a 1949 FL. Other photos of the crankcase showed: provision for top end oil return consistent with early Panheads; the correct casting number of 112-481; and a casting date code of L 8. The belly number also appeared authentic and although it began with 2 instead of 1, we have seen that before on 1949 FL cases and they appear authentic.

If anyone can confirm the P in the photo to be authentic then please do so. And if possible, supporting evidence would also be appreciated.     Eric

[chris haynes]

Craig,
not that I would have doubted you anyway, but I took a page from your book (pun intended, lol) and read the first 2 chapters from Palmer's last night, just sat back and read it like a novel. Definitely the most fascinating read I've had in a long time!
Anyway, of course your correct so I'll be looking for a glide front end.

I gotta start raising some serious money now too, I better get the "leftover" stuff from my bike on ebay. I have the '71 frame, wideglide front end, and quite a few misc non-original or wrong year parts laying around my spare bedroom (aka parts warehouse)

Little Al




Actually the Springer fork was standard on sidecar equipted machines in 1949. It was not an option.

[chris haynes]

Chris,

Mutt or not I beleive I'll be happy. I know some of you guys are purest's, I'm not, I just want a '54 that is reasonably accurate in looks and function.


There is nothing wrong with a Mutt. I have several of them. I am building a Knucklehead Mutt for muself now.