REPRINT FROM OLD HTT: High Performance Good Handling FXR or Dyna

[ClassicRider2002]

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS A REPRINT TOPIC FROM "OLD" HTT

I have saved many great topical discussions as "links" over the years and would hate to see these lost, so I am reprinting this TOPIC here, which may "perhaps" help some.

TOPIC:  High Performance Good Handling FXR or Dyna  04-20-08

   

From: Pzokes  (Original Message) Sent: 4/20/2008 5:34 PM   Message 1 of 17 in Discussion
If you were to build the best handling stock framed big twin, would you use a FXR or Dyna frame or another stock HD frame?  

Are the "straight shock FXR's" better handling than the angle shock frames?
What have been the frame changes over the years with the Dynas?

[ClassicRider2002]

From: hrdtail78 Sent: 4/20/2008 6:27 PM   Message 2 of 17 in Discussion
FXR handsdown.  The swing arm mounts to the frame and trans like a FL.  The diyna is only bolted to the trans by a rubber mount.
 

From: Pzokes Sent: 4/20/2008 6:41 PM   Message 3 of 17 in Discussion
Do you think that the original FXR design, with the straight shocks has a handling advantage over the later angled shock redesign?  
     

From: caper Sent: 4/20/2008 6:54 PM   Message 4 of 17 in Discussion
I agree with hrdtail78 on that. Not sure about the shock angle tho, but the early FXR's were as nimble as a Sporty.
     

From: reddog74usa Sent: 4/20/2008 6:57 PM   Message 5 of 17 in Discussion
The fxr frames are far better. I've had both. I built a Twin cam in a fxr frame and it was great. It had the rigid trans engine connection of the TC and the handling of an FXR. I ride like a Madman when I have a hot rod bike so I sold it cause I just couldn't help myself. I was in tripple didgits every day goin to work on the freeway. Ya might say I didn't need a coffe to get goin when I got to work but grandpop is gonna be hurtin at those speeds. If thats your bag go for it. The TC/FXR combo is hard to beat and not hard to do. I like the FXR frame because it's more comfotable when your sitting in the bike, They tend to be smoother and they handle better. The Dyna frames ride harder don't handle as well and seem to give me the feeling of ridding on top of the bike instead of in it. If you decide to go the TC/FXR combo you must use a TC FLH dresser drive train as it bolts right up except for a few small mods.


From: Pzokes Sent: 4/21/2008 4:16 AM   Message 6 of 17 in Discussion
Reddog74usa,
Your bike sounds like what I want to do.  I think that I remember seeing some articles on some website about someone that had done that TC/FXR combo.  I'll try doing a search.


From: JohnS_Rosamond_CA Sent: 4/21/2008 12:46 PM   Message 7 of 17 in Discussion
I agree with the others; the FXR is an excellent bike and a much better platform than the Evo equipped Dyna.
     

From: gerry /toronto Sent: 4/21/2008 3:05 PM   Message 8 of 17 in Discussion
I have a fxrs-sp, with the angeled shocks, i also run it in straight shock version when i run fxrt bags/fairing, in straight up it is harder on my a$$ (a harsher ride) i prefer the angled (its a '93 and has both holes in the frame for top shock mount (i use the older style side plates for the fxrt setup(which harley used til the end of fxrt production due to bag mounting) the new style plates cover up the stright up mounts,  so i think a later '87+ will have both mounts ( i don't know about earlier)  gerry
   

From: munkeywithlobo Sent: 4/22/2008 9:05 AM   Message 9 of 17 in Discussion
I've got a FXR with TC motor and it handles a bunch better than my 2000 FXDX... Bruce

[ClassicRider2002]

   

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 4/22/2008 10:46 AM  Message 10 of 17 in Discussion
If you were to build the best handling stock framed big twin, would you use a FXR or Dyna frame or another stock HD frame?

I have owned a 2003 FXDL (low rider) and I currently own a 1999 FXR2.  I sold the FXDL. I still own the FXR.  The bike is better handling going up canyons, going on freeways, and riding in parking lots....that may have something to do with the fact that a 1999 FXR2 weighs in at around 564 lbs vs the 623 lbs for the FXDL.

reddog74usa .....I like the FXR frame because it's more comfotable when your sitting in the bike, They tend to be smoother and they handle better. The Dyna frames ride harder don't handle as well and seem to give me the feeling of ridding on top of the bike instead of in it.[/color]
I couldn't say it any better.....one sits "in" the bike instead of "on" the bike.....it's like anything the "legend" of the FXR will continue to grow as progress continues....it's a frame that the after market became very excited about through out the years....and what is super intersesting is to hear how so many who have sold the keys to their bikes and watched them drive away ultimately regret their decisions....

When we talk about "handling" any spork bike enthusiast would snicker when talking about a harley however there is more to handling than just how fast you can go up or down a canyon....there is the comfort associated with an FXR frame that to me even rivals that of my road king classic.  Remember the "FXR" frame developed from Eric Buell, Willy G. and 3 others for what they felt at the time was a need in the market place for a "lighter" touring bike offering "comfort" and "handling".  To someone that is most likely above 5' 10" tall however they will feel a bit cramped and might disagree to some extent....but anyone @ or under 5' 10" one up riding with gear, there isn't anything more comfortable....the "feel" of the fxr even rivals that of a "softail" when it comes to riding "in" the bike and for how low one feels "in" the bike....At least to this point, HD "nailed" the "comfort" and "handling" performance for this frame perfectly (as I have mentioned for anyone @ or under 5' 10") and hasn't been able to improve it at all.

Personally....since this is what I have done...lol....I would go out and look for the best conditioned 1993, 1994, 1999 FXR2, 1999 FXR3....(not including the 2000 FXR4 since I don't like the "silver engine" lol).  I am not sure I get the whole concept of putting a "twin cam" engine into one of these bikes....but hey that's why we own them and have opinions....to each their own.  One can build today a pretty great running evo engine by changing cams or pistons or an after market evo engine as well....that will do really well....but I DO get that we all have different personalities....

I am also not sure why more folks don't take a closer look at this bike as one to own in their own garage....it's a carbed bike, easy to work on....it's a lighter bike for any "smaller" riders....it's a kick to own and ride....and heck a 1993 or 1994 is pretty inexpensive to purchase these days compared to a much heavier, less comfortable, and not as good of handling machine than one of these....Things such as "paint" schemes and "handle bar" styles can be easily modified....and on and on...lol

Here is some "stored" information I have about the FXR...forgive me but anytime one has the opportunity to talk about the FXR or FXR frame I just can't help myself...lol...It's always quite interesting to go into a Dealership and talk with those behind the parts counter that have no knowledge of the FXR or it's history....I believe it's shameful....these comments were copy and pasted from articles I have read through out the years and I am not sure of the "original" author:

In 1992,
The FXR's received recalibrated carburetors, with the rules of EPA changing and getting tighter, thus new carburetors were required along with new oil lines and a new cover for the pump. There were better materials for the brake discs.  The factory was fitting a retainer to "ensure that the drive sprocket nut stays tight for the life of the vehichle" <~~~~IF THAT Doesn't make you stroll out to your garage and check the NUT on your pre-1992, NOTHING WILL....YIKES!! (my comment....lol)

In 1993,

FXR Super Glide
FXR Convertible, which in effect replaced the the FXRT, which was dropped.
FXRS-SP, the Low Rider Sport Edition with low bars, raised suspension, and dual front brakes.
FXLR the Low Rider Custom, with the solid rear wheel, a 21" inch front, and a one-piece combo of dog-bone risers and flat bars on which rode the speedo. Which allows for modifying the tank to a COOL looking long tank...if you have ever seen those...they are cool looking.

These models also got revised breather system for the gear case to air box, reprofiled levers, and sight glasses for the brake master cylinders.

In 1994,

Was comprised of two models:
the FXR Super Glide, just as it had been the previous year
the FXLR Low Rider, just as it had been the previous year.

.....and thus 1994 marked the end of the FXR era frame.

IN 1995 THERE were NO MORE FXR's the line was stopped....

At best in trying to keep up with all of the production years of the FXR from 1982 through 1994 I would say that if anyone were to go back and revisit all of the years while attempting to keep up with the maze of changes in names or modifications of the FXR model throughout the birth and generation of the FXR from 1982 - 1994 one would perhaps like to know that without excluding the value of any Harley-Davidson model or year...that the birth and reemergence of the FXR as an FXR2, FXR3, and FXR4 during the calendar years of 1999 and 2000 has more validity than to simply be described as opportunity by the MOTO COMPANY to recapture more dollars based upon only "bling". What you are offered is perhaps the best that the moto company could offer one with this particular FXR framed bike....<~~~Is this opinion....perhaps only you can decide.

To me it will always stand that HD's effort was to provide a FINAL clear cut opportunity to truly own an FXR framed bike featuring at the time of 1999-2000 the latest "technology" (and I use that term with tongue in cheek) or perhaps the latest advancements on a particularly wonderfully spectacular framed bike.

There is always going to be something faster, something different....but the future will show that the historical reasoning for leaving something behind because perhaps this particular frame while initially perhaps rejected by the market as being too import oriented will wonderfully prove to be one of the finest frames to ride that H-D has ever produced. Thus, as you can see the development of this particular model and the morphs is it endured....to basically come out and say that HD merely saw a way to procure more dollars with simple "bling" is perhaps an understatement.

It actually should be mentioned that part of the reason the FXR2, FXR3, and FXR4 were brought back besides the desire by H-D to start a CVO program was H-D observing during the 5 year absence of the FXR frame being continually modified and being used to become a "custom ride" by many in the after market....thus H-D saw perhaps an opportunity to capture this market that obviously was being missed by making their own version of a "custom" look at a more affordable price than could be reproduced in the after market.......which only points to the fact that perhaps initial thoughts that the market was rejecting the frame because of an "import" look was simply a more limited view instead of a widely held purchasing view.....of course the end of the FXR frame also has become widely accepted that to produce the frame required too many "hands" to create it verses the more easily created frame of an FXD model when using robotics to make production easier and yes, perhaps even cheaper........I vote for getting an FXR frame most definitely....

Regards,

"Classic"

[ClassicRider2002]

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 4/22/2008 5:44 PM   Message 11 of 17 in Discussion

Sometimes taking something someone has already articulated is an excellent source of input, in this case it was Samuel who stated:
From:  AlphaSamuel Evo 1340 : Best FXR Frame   01-26-2004
As to the best frame/model.  I posed this question to the test riders at the Harley Davidson test facility at Taladega, AL.  When I inquired as to the best bike and model that HD had to offer, if they had their choice of just 1 bike, which bike would they purchase?   All the Test Riders responded that they would take the current FXR model over them all.  This was in 1992.   So as to which year model of the FXR was the best?  I can only say that there was very little difference in the frames from one year to the next.   More than anything the changes were cosmetic.  Samuel

I have saved some of Samuel's past posts....thought this one was appropriate to share here.

Regards,

"Classic"   

From: seattledyna Sent: 4/22/2008 8:47 PM   Message 12 of 17 in Discussion
I gotta say there is something magic about my FXR, like said you feel like you sit "in" the bike...like you are part of it, with the forward controls even at 6'2" I am plenty comfortable when the lePera seat is on, however it is only good for 50 miles or so, but with the stock FXR touring seat I feel I could ride that bike all day!!


From: Pzokes Sent: 4/23/2008 6:55 PM  Message 13 of 17 in Discussion
Wow! Thanks to everyone for all the info and feedback.


From: Superglidesport1 Sent: 4/27/2008 6:47 AM   Message 14 of 17 in Discussion 
I bought an '82 FXR and loved the handling. Traded it for a brand new '83 FXRT and rode that one for over 260K miles through 2003. Bought a new '92 FXD intending to replace the '83 FXRT and never did like the handling. Couldn't get comfortable with it and I never did feel like I was in the groove. So I put the '92 in storage and just kept riding the FXRT until somebody made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I still regret selling it!

Replaced the FXRT with an '04 RK and now ride an '07 FLTR / Road Glide. The RG is close to the FXRT but carries much more weight. 

    
From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 4/28/2008 2:26 PM   Message 15 of 17 in Discussion
Here is something that I found providing some advice on Front Forks via Samuel:

General : Are Fork Braces Worth the Money?    06-03-2003
From: AlphaSamuel Sent: 6/3/2003 2:57 PM
A fork brace will make a marginal front end perform like one of the heavier ones.  It gives better stability, stiffens weak forks, and in general, makes a bike perform like one expects it to.  Almost a must for 35 and 39MM front ends.  Samuel

Regards,

"Classic"   

From: mpz Sent: 5/2/2008 9:41 AM  Message 16 of 17 in Discussion
It's not just the more vertical shocks, though that does contribute greatly to a better ride. The frame is stronger because of a better design, which was not compromised for "the look" to the extent the initial Dyna frame was. Remember the "torque arms" the early Dyna frames needed because engine torque would twist the frame and crack the primary case? Then there's the 3 point rubber-mounting system of the FXR, as opposed to the Dyna's 2 rubber mounts. This continues on the current Dyna frame and on the newer FLH as well, and has resulted in many complaints of loss of stability at speed, especially with the 26 degree rake of the FLH. The FXR and the very similar older FLH frames are unquestionably the best Harley ever made. I'm lucky enough to have bought a '92 FXRS new and am still very happy with it, not just because of the frame but because of the superior Evo engine as well.
   

From: Hotham Sent: 5/9/2008 2:19 AM    Message 17 of 17 in Discussion
Eric Buell designed the original FXR frame.  The motor company went to the Dyna frame to save money.  It is cheaper to build.  I have owned my FXR since 1982 and will never sell it.  Chopper Guys in Vallejo, Ca. make 2 versions of a FXR frame.  Both are well made and make a sweet street bike with a 96" S&S motor.  Ask me how I know.

[ClassicRider2002]

Anything added beyond this point is new information.

Regards,

"Classic"