axtell cyl and ring seal

[hardyheadscom]

has anybody had issues with axtell rings with their 4.125 cyls. they uses a hastings automotive ring.
i don`t really see a prob there. but i have had back to back ring sealing issues with this axtell cyl and rings set up.
.
or how about abnormal cyl growth.. same cyls..the reason i ask this .i set my push rods at 0 lash using limited travelers cold..after heating up they got loose and loud. i set lash at 0 at running temp. all was fine untill cool down. tried to start engine and had low com presion form open valves. i adjusted the a few times cold.

i have done this a hunderd times without issue...i removed  limited travelers problem solved.
still the ring issue...... compression going backwards

[BONERACIN]

 

[r440]

no not axtel they have the best stuff on the planet,and never have a bad product,gotta be the tune

[djl]

My first expereince with Axtell 4.125 cylinders was funny stuff going on the front cylinder.  Pulled the engine down and sent all back to Axtell.  They could never diagnose the prolem but told me there were indications of the begining of micro welding on rings and a cylinder that was showed unusual wear.  Cylinders were overbored .020 and new pistons (at my cost) but were set was setup at .002" piston to cylinder clearance instead of .0025".  That set has been installed and has 100 miles on it.  CCP should be 198psi according to calculator, rear cylinder hits 190psi but front only hits 178psi.  I am hoping that the rings on the front have just not seated yet.  I don't think 178psi is worth pulling the front down to re-hone and re-ring but would be much happier with 190 up front as well.

I mocked up and measured everything before final assembly, so the calculated CCR should be fairly accurate.

[aceman2101]

had oil consuption issues with the axtell 4.125 cylinders. Had them rehoned. Dont have enough miles on the rebuild yet to determine if I still have an issue.  My first go around they were broken in with synthetic oil, this time it is being broken in with non-synthetic.

[robby dmax]

no not axtel they have the best stuff on the planet,and never have a bad product,gotta be the tune

i couldn't agree more    lo     :scratch:l   what was i thinking  !!           the tune really !!

[RevFastEddy]

Automotive rings.. Maybe that is a misnomer.... Either rings are metric or US Standard. US Standard is .003 wider and about .060 deeper than metric. You can put a metric in a standard ring slot but not the other way.

As for hastings.. They are good rings. Mine came from Axtel just like yours. Metric 4.125".. I did go to total seal second ring though. They are very good rings to work with.

[robby dmax]

My first expereince with Axtell 4.125 cylinders was funny stuff going on the front cylinder.  Pulled the engine down and sent all back to Axtell.  They could never diagnose the prolem but told me there were indications of the begining of micro welding on rings and a cylinder that was showed unusual wear.  Cylinders were overbored .020 and new pistons (at my cost) but were set was setup at .002" piston to cylinder clearance instead of .0025".  That set has been installed and has 100 miles on it.  CCP should be 198psi according to calculator, rear cylinder hits 190psi but front only hits 178psi.  I am hoping that the rings on the front have just not seated yet.  I don't think 178psi is worth pulling the front down to re-hone and re-ring but would be much happier with 190 up front as well.

I mocked up and measured everything before final assembly, so the calculated CCR should be fairly accurate.

its kinda funny that there is some people that actually wanna talk bout the problem and as they never found the problem
but they always come back and say that its micro welding or a timing problem  or or  is that how bout a fitment problem    THEY HAVE A GREAT PRODUCT TO WORK WITH IF THE FITMENT IS GOOD

the best part is that they make money doing it over!!   

[pwmorris]

My first expereince with Axtell 4.125 cylinders was funny stuff going on the front cylinder.  Pulled the engine down and sent all back to Axtell.  They could never diagnose the prolem but told me there were indications of the begining of micro welding on rings and a cylinder that was showed unusual wear.  Cylinders were overbored .020 and new pistons (at my cost) but were set was setup at .002" piston to cylinder clearance instead of .0025".  That set has been installed and has 100 miles on it.  CCP should be 198psi according to calculator, rear cylinder hits 190psi but front only hits 178psi.  I am hoping that the rings on the front have just not seated yet.  I don't think 178psi is worth pulling the front down to re-hone and re-ring but would be much happier with 190 up front as well.

I mocked up and measured everything before final assembly, so the calculated CCR should be fairly accurate.

its kinda funny that there is some people that actually wanna talk bout the problem and as they never found the problem
but they always come back and say that its micro welding or a timing problem  or or  is that how bout a fitment problem    THEY HAVE A GREAT PRODUCT TO WORK WITH IF THE FITMENT IS GOOD

the best part is that they make money doing it over!!   

Who makes a better cylinder piston combo? What company? Can't wait to hear this one...

[djl]

My first expereince with Axtell 4.125 cylinders was funny stuff going on the front cylinder.  Pulled the engine down and sent all back to Axtell.  They could never diagnose the prolem but told me there were indications of the begining of micro welding on rings and a cylinder that was showed unusual wear.  Cylinders were overbored .020 and new pistons (at my cost) but were set was setup at .002" piston to cylinder clearance instead of .0025".  That set has been installed and has 100 miles on it.  CCP should be 198psi according to calculator, rear cylinder hits 190psi but front only hits 178psi.  I am hoping that the rings on the front have just not seated yet.  I don't think 178psi is worth pulling the front down to re-hone and re-ring but would be much happier with 190 up front as well.

I mocked up and measured everything before final assembly, so the calculated CCR should be fairly accurate.

its kinda funny that there is some people that actually wanna talk bout the problem and as they never found the problem
but they always come back and say that its micro welding or a timing problem  or or  is that how bout a fitment problem    THEY HAVE A GREAT PRODUCT TO WORK WITH IF THE FITMENT IS GOOD

the best part is that they make money doing it over!!   

Who makes a better cylinder piston combo? What company? Can't wait to hear this one...

I was not knocking Axtell; Chaz was very helpful.  I did not expect Axtell to bear the cost of the new pistons and was not whining, just sharing experience.  It is what it is and it won't stop me from buying Axtell in the future.

[Don D]

Ethically Speaking

The problem with these threads is they spread like a wild fire when there may just be a smoldering flame. This type of crap can ruin a company, and not justified, the information moves almost too efficiently tainted by angry bias as illustrated by Robby there. Guys, including and especially Axtell, work hard to build a company and maintain a reputation.

Hardy you know the drill. This isn't your first day on the job. Have an issue contact them. Not happy buy from another source. It won't be the first or last time that happens as you have graphically eluded to before about other companys.

I have no idea if there are real issues, in large proportions, as all the Axtell kits I have installed worked flawlessly both bored stock cylinders and their 4.125" cylinder kits. So we don't hear from the happy campers out there....just saying. I will say this however I did have some direct control on how they were fired, tuned and broken in

DJL my comments do not apply to you as you have been informative and level headed about it all.

[02FYRFTR]

   RP,Kuryakyn and many others  have been dragged thru the mud but rarely the installer!!  Gear driven camsare latest victim tha I havewitnessed!!!

[r440]

I do know my next time it will be anyone but axtel,I've had better luck with SE and was promised help by Chaz,and if they promise help and dont deliver,well shame on them,they are a business and really should take these problems serious if not then  with'em ,all these companies suck our $$$ up promise all kinda things and deliver crap,well ya know what I was'nt happy and told'em ,they got my $$  again and I am not kissin any butt to be a customer,we keep them in jobs,that applies to all businesses   I paid for premium parts and THAT is what we should get

[WVULTRA]

I'll jump in with my $.02.........

My good friend elswick, who's a master machinist that owns 7 CNC machines, recently purchased an Axtell 117" Mountain Motor Kit through Herko.  Now here's a guy that checks and double checks every component of his build, and has had a ton of SE stuff his last being the SE 113" kit on his Custom '05 Softail Bagger.  Of course, he does all his assembly himself.

He has told me time and again how pleased he is with his Axtell components along with his WFO Heads and Darkhorse bottom.  His Axtell parts were of the precision they advertised, and everything measured perfectly; squish/deck height, cylinder to piston, piston ring fit, wristpin offset, etc.

Me, I've got the much less expensive 107" drop-on kit with their Stage II headwork.  And my checks during assembly yielded the same precision along with 2% leakdown on both cylinders.

Not saying others out there don't offer excellent products, but my first-hand knowledge of Ron, Chaz, and the entire crew at Axtell has been one of Excellent Service and Support.  I too was offered this opportunity through Herko who also falls into this same category of Excellent Service and Support.

Not saying I may never encounter a problem, but I feel confident these vendors/manufacturers have years of outstanding service and a reputation they are proud of.

[Eleft36]

Ethically Speaking

The problem with these threads is they spread like a wild fire when there may just be a smoldering flame. This type of crap can ruin a company, and not justified, the information moves almost too efficiently tainted by angry bias as illustrated by Robby there. Guys, including and especially Axtell, work hard to build a company and maintain a reputation.

AMEN

[FSG]

Not saying I may never encounter a problem, but I feel confident these vendors/manufacturers have years of outstanding service and a reputation they are proud of.

Which suggests to me that you would call the vendor and get it sorted, as I would, rather than post such as r440's example. 

r440's perhaps a re read of the Site Code of Conduct is in order, a chill pill and then another call to Axtell and find a resolution.

[r440]

well I guess ya cant talk bad about having a bad experience with a business?back to just reading then

[FSG]

Well perhaps you don't want to find a resolution then, whatever, this is not the forum for grinding axes.

[WVULTRA]

Not saying I may never encounter a problem, but I feel confident these vendors/manufacturers have years of outstanding service and a reputation they are proud of.

Which suggests to me that you would call the vendor and get it sorted, as I would, rather than post such as r440's example. 

r440's perhaps a re read of the Site Code of Conduct is in order, a chill pill and then another call to Axtell and find a resolution.

FSG:

[mor pwr]

I have installed many sets of the Axtell round ductile iron cylinders on evo's and twin cam engines with outside oil lines and have never had a problem with there stuff.

[FIGJAM]

"Who makes a better cylinder piston combo? What company? Can't wait to hear this one..."

It's been years since I read anything from Panman, he was always prepared to provide his thoughts and insights regarding pistons and anything else you thought you knew anything about. Calling Panman!

[wfolarry]

The problem with the rings is that the ends are not square. Everybody checks the end gap right? Stick a feeler gauge in there & it's all good? Maybe run it on the tight side to reduce blowby? Hastings ring ends look like they were clipped with pliers. A little dressing of the ends & setting the gap right & it will work fine. I do this for a lot of shops so I know that it's something thats just taken for granted but if you want to be a motor builder instead of paying someone else you better know all the tricks. An engine builder checks everything. An assembler just looks to make sure he's got all the parts. Sometimes.

[Kleetus]

 Very interesting thread...

[barny7655]

Like most of us we assemble motors, after we sublet the heads to be done , the barrels to be bored,pistons fitted, the crank to be welded and rods checked, all of the rest is parts bought for the build , so if you have subleted to a good engine rebuilder , your 3/4 the way there, the thing i find that is clean room for the rebuild,clean tools, the right parts,meaning gasket choice, bearing choice for cams ,and of course matching parts for the build , right pistons, for the cams,head work for the cams,electrical parts , and of course lubrication for assembly and the build during break in ,a suitable carb tune for running in motor , or efi system and injectors suited, exausts air cleaner,so we all hope that the sublets are 100% and we as the  assembly are also ,to stay focused, and a service book and notes on hand, for different parts of assembly,so step by step we have the motor we dream of ,but a one shop stop mostly has to sublet the build , like i said crank , boring , may be heads , , good post , cheers Barny

[prodrag1320]

i think they set their stuff up a little tight,but cylinder quality & machining is second to none,also they can supply total seal rings instead of hastings,go with total seal