MASTERTUNE VRS SCREAMIN’ EAGLE®PRO SUPER TUNER

[yositime]

Tell the tuner you want a cooler running bike. The bike can run just as cool if not cooler than the PCIII but your MPG will suffer.

[FLTRI]

No need to go spending $$ for a new tuning device. The PCIII will work just fine....for your build.
Then get it tuned for your bike. While some suppliers would like you to believe they can write 1 map for all bikes with the same configuration, the truth is every bike needs a different map due to all the variables each individual bike has, not least of which are injector outputs. There are others but that is another thread.
Take the $$ you were going to spend on another tuning device and give it to a good tuner.
You will not regret it.
Hope this helps,
Bob

[arnold]

Ck, so I picked up a Mastertuner kit. I'm looking forward to trying to tune it myself. If I cant get a good tune then I will break down and get it tuned (probly), I have the $ set aside for that if needed, no problem there, but to be honest I'm amazed at what folks are charging to tune a motor. $400 to $450 is the going rate, I have found a guy that will tune for $325, which while a lot of money you have to consider the equipment is far from cheap. At $400 + per tune I may very well decide to sell the TTS and tune my PCIII which depending on my success with tuning looks better every day. I don't have to re-tune (at 400 or more) every time I decide to tune or make changes to my bike, hell I can convert to carb for the cost of 3 tunes and forget about it. I'm really expecting good results from the TTS and expect Ill be nothing but pleased with the results from all the reviews here and on other sites. But I just had to throw my 2 cents in on the cost of tuning, I can get a PCIII tuned for $250 bucks, I'm told its much easier to tune but good god $400+ is just flat out Highway robbery in my mind. Wish me luck on my tuning 
FLTRI maybe I should have read your last post earlier 
If this sounds like sour grapes I'm sorry, I'm sure its an XLNT product, I'm just bitchin bout tuning costs.

[FLTRI]

Arnold,
Try to look at a great tuner as a great chef. A great chef, through his experience and passion, can take a bunch of ingredients and make a great tasting meal.

Look at a crappy tuner as a greasy spoon cook who'd rather be fishing than cooking.

Sure you can get you whole meal for under 10 bucks from the greasy spoon but the meal from the great chef was a good experience and will be everlasting.

What is a fair price for a great meal prepared by someone who had to go to school to learn his trade, then years of practice and testing to perfect it to a meal second to none? $50? $100?

Hoo-boy! What a bunch of crap that was!
IMO, a good tuner will make your build, whatever it is, run smooth, with snappy throttle response, and end up with a good power gain.

A crappy tuner will take your money and hope he never sees you again. When you get on your bike and ride away, your bike runs no better and maybe worse than when you took it in for the "tune".

That said, tuning a bike is not as easy as it may seem to someone who hasn't been through the procedure. The monetary investment (>50k+) for a dyno and room is the easiest part of tuning.

It is the years of experience working with, building, and tuning and racing these engines that separates great tuners from dyno operators.

Understanding the Harley EFI systems for troubleshooting is imperative to be a top dyno tuner. This way running issues/problems are quickly diagnosed and repaired as necessary to complete a proper tune.

A quality tuner will stand behind his work, meaning immediately correct and error or oversight in the tune without charge, of course.

Thanks for listening and hope it helps understand why it costs so much for a tune.

Hoping this is taken in the spirit in which it was intended,
Bob

[eddfive]

Arnold,

I have been sitting and watching this thread and was wondering why I never got a call or if I did I did not know who I was talking to.  I agree with Bob on what is important about a dyno tuner.  There is a whole lot more that goes into to dyno tuning if the tuner knows what to look for and do. I am not beating my own drumb but at $400, I have been told by many I am not charging enough for the quality of the tunes that I produce.  Read this thread and topic so you can see what really goes into a tune.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=49313.0

There is a whole lot more to tuning that people do not realize and if the gentleman in the thread/topic would have tried to V-Tune he would have never gotten good results and been very frustrated.  The bottom line is you want your bike to run at its best performance and efficiency.  I may get some arguement for this but the absolute best way to get any bike 100% tuned and all available parameters adjusted correctly is on the dyno.  HP/TQ Numbers do not mean much to me as they are only a tool I use to check results, the bottom line is driveability and smoothness both in accel and decel and the transition in between.  The devil is in the details.

[arnold]

I appreciate the input, honestly, but how do I know I'm getting a reputable tuner? This may seem like a naive question but here are responses I have gotten from two tuners that I expected more service from. When asking for help self tuning one well known tuner 's comet was "I get $800 dollars a day teaching people how to do this so I'm not going to teach you to be a master tuner". All right fair nuff, however I didn't ask to be taught to be a "master  tuner" I just wanted assurance I would get the help I needed to get the best V-Tune Possible. That person lost a sale with that comment. Another answer, " so this software is going to make my bike run better than my PCIII by a measurable amount  right? (this person up to this point had a tune sold) the answer I got was " no guarantees (add a little chuckle to the end of that statement), well, guess what, there walked my business out the door, With a copy of the software at least.
I'm no prim a dona and you don't have to kiss my harry yellow ass to get my business, but with comments like that I will ride a LONG way to get a good tune before you will get my business, If you want my business you will treat me with a least a moderate degree of respect or you can indeed kmhya before you will see any of my money.
I wont drop any name because that would be a cheap shot, the only name I WILL mention is Steve Cole who has been extremely supportive, didn't treat me like a fool (because believe me I'm not). Had I known the response I was going to get from the other "tuners" I would never have shopped for a deal and just purchased my product from the man himself.

[FLTRI]

Arnold,
Sorry you had such disheartening experiences with a couple tuners you spoke with. I like to help and personally would never tell you I will not answer questions because I charge for my knowledge.

As far as answering some misc. questions along your way to self-learning tuning,  we'll help as much as we can.

There are a couple tuners who offer classes to learn how to tune. Most of them charge $500-$1000 per day (plus expenses) to teach.

If it is this education you want, please ask and we'll offer some numbers to call.

Guess some feel they've spent years learning the tricks and traps, in addition to the basics, of EFI tuning so there is no easy, quick way to learn.

Try asking a plastic surgeon how to do breast enhancement surgery because you want to perform it your wife/girlfriend. He'll probably laugh?

Anyway, we are here to help, but do not expect folks who make a living from building engines or tuning them, to teach you what they've learned over years and trial and error testing.

Bob

[arnold]

Ill drop it after this comment, I don't want to alienate any more prospective tuners (if it isn't to late already) no where in any of my conversations did I infer I wanted tuning lessons that would infringe on anyone's hard earned work or knowledge, and one tuner that left a bad taste in my mouth never offered to help with the V-tune process so on that score I have no complaints. What I was asking for was help with the V-tune process NOT dyno tuning my machine with my non existent dyno machine. Thanks for your input being a professional in another discipline I understand but I wasn't expecting it in this instance. Thanks for listening.

[FLTRI]

Once you have read the V-tune manual and you have some procedural or technical questions, we will be more than happy to assist you.
Just remember there are few "tuners" who have learned and use V-tune so maybe the answers you received were from lack of knowledge covered up by the defensive attitude/comments you received.
Let us know how we can help,
Bob

[HogMike]

Arnold,

I have been sitting and watching this thread and was wondering why I never got a call or if I did I did not know who I was talking to.  I agree with Bob on what is important about a dyno tuner.  There is a whole lot more that goes into to dyno tuning if the tuner knows what to look for and do. I am not beating my own drumb but at $400, I have been told by many I am not charging enough for the quality of the tunes that I produce.  Read this thread and topic so you can see what really goes into a tune.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=49313.0

There is a whole lot more to tuning that people do not realize and if the gentleman in the thread/topic would have tried to V-Tune he would have never gotten good results and been very frustrated.  The bottom line is you want your bike to run at its best performance and efficiency.  I may get some arguement for this but the absolute best way to get any bike 100% tuned and all available parameters adjusted correctly is on the dyno.  HP/TQ Numbers do not mean much to me as they are only a tool I use to check results, the bottom line is driveability and smoothness both in accel and decel and the transition in between.  The devil is in the details.

Hit it right on the head!!!