How to get BEST 'Home Made Tune?

[Don D]

The switching sensor output is just used to correct the VE numbers, just one of the many factors in an algorithm. For map development the whole map is put in closed loop, 14.6 when using TTS VTune
Get the VEs correct (well at least the ones that are accessable) then, in theory, the AFR can be user programmable to their desired values. So the sensors accuracy at say 13.2/1 is not really relevant, right? The Delphi, closed loop mode, doesn't work outside of an AFR value set at 14.6 so CLB aside that is the only number it needs to hone in on then if the user selects any other AFR they want after the VEs are corrected it's their choice and the sensors outputs are no longer in the formula.

[Steve Cole]

Manufacturers state that they, "narrowband" sensors can be used to control A/F from STOICH to plus or minus .5 A/F ratio.

Yes! they can BE used to control accurately within a plus minus .05 A/F.

FBRR

Make your mind up as it cannot be both! What you are posting is misleading and you seem to be switching what your saying from post to post! You seem to not understand all of what you think you do. The switching sensor and the Broad Band sensor are built from the very same base technology. The Switching sensor will accurately measure +/- .5 AFR that is a pure and simple fact! I have called out the range as 15.0:1 - 14.2:1 which is just under that amount, as that is what our testing showed it would do. That is the STOICH ratio for most gasoline based fuels. You do not have to compensate for exhaust pressure or temperature with a switching sensor, another simple fact!

If your going to compare to a Broad Band Sensor within that range (15.0 - 14.2) you have to measure temperature and pressure as well as the sensor voltage to be as accurate as the Switching sensor. Now outside of that range in order to be accurate the Broad Band sensor needs to still perform the same measurements. Please show me just one of the current aftermarket units on the market today for a HD that does that! Until you can what I posted is not misleading at all, it's another fact!

While there is a few lab quality instruments that do the job right they are not out for most to buy let alone where most of the people that use this forum would event begin to know about. I have clearly stated this before as well.

[FBRR]

Steve,
If as you say you have actually calibrated! You should know there is a difference in the terms "used for fuel control" and using actual sensor voltage as a basis of actual A/F. Both the statement you quoted say the narrow band can be used to control A/F ratio. ( my fat finger of .05 is wrong, narrow band are good for plus or minus .5 A/F.) But that statement is IN CONJUNCTION WITH FUEL CONTROL! Narrow band sensor output is only "absolute at stoich".

My statement is "with FUEL CONTROL". As I'm sure you know "fuel control "is a very specific software function! Fuel control IS NOT WHAT A/F is commanded. Fuel control ( from a calibration standpoint ) is THE SOFTWARE alogorithm function that takes a signal (feedback from the O2 sensor) and through MANY different calibrated values! Use the siganl to keep the O2 sensor switching and "in control". The actual O2 sensor voltage cannot be used for an actual A/F ratio value! Fuel control is how the software algorithms use sensor input of rich or LEAN and makes additive and reductions in pulse width about the switch point!

As I am unsure of actual Harley calibration values here are only some of the calibrations that can drive FUEL CONTROL!

If others are interested here are a few of the software functions included in "FUEL CONTROL." Proportional step size ( which can be changed base on RPM,MAP, and even delta change in voltage of the O2 sensor)
Intgral step size ( same variables as proportional. And integral is different THAN INTEGRATOR! The integral is the small amount of fuel change base on how long the INTEGRTOR has been Rich or LEAN! The Integrator is the resultant of all fueling calculations for delivered pulse width.) There are transport delay times based on several other factors. You can even have different CLB or rich and lean switch points based on whether the system is switching from RICH to LEAN or LEAN to RICH. And some fuel control makes changes based on O2 sensor "direction", that is headed towards the swirch point either rich ot lean! What many folks fail to realize is the O2 sensor signal can also be used in several different ways AT THE SAME TIME. There is RAW unfiltered O2 sensor siganl, as well as filters applied against the raw signal. How you filter the O2 sensor depending on actual sensor voltage, can be use to deterime STATE of CHANGE and expected State of change ( that is Rich or Lean !). That is FUEL CONTROL! There are many other calibration valuse associated with "Fuel Control", that are simply not available on aftermarket devices! Yet changing one or two of those inputs ( such as CLB) can and does impact all those "other" area and calibrations that are used for FUEL CONTROL!!

And if you are still interested, there are several aspects of software design and algorithm development to consider. There are mechanical functions is air and fuel flow. Such as throttle changes and airflow lag time from throttle blade to VALVE. Those lags time are physical in nature. How long does it take for an change in INJECTOR ON time before actual "fuel delivered " to the cyclinder and is measured by the feedback of th eO2 sensor. Those are mechanical functions and are accounted for in software algo rithm design.
The other function included in calibrations are to account for electrical "lags times" in the ECM. When you command a change, while they are fast, can be slow from a  sense delivered change vs. when the software calculates and delivers that change. So both electrical and machanical lags in response times are included in software calibrations!!

As I am not here to sell anything, I only post so folks will have some understanding of how things work...
And some changes in one value can and do affect other calibration values. And only a FEW calibration values are available in any after market tuner! There is also a BIG difference in "what works?" and optimized engine control system!

VE's and fuel control are the HEART of making actual A/F match COMMANDED A/F. But closed loop fuel control is obviously NOT active in open loop ( P.E operation!).
And we haven't even touched on Injector "DYNAMIC" range! This is a big issue on "built" engines. Changing production injectors for larger engine builts, involves more than just "INJECTOR" constant" to be correct!
If anyone is interested I can address injector issue in another post!

[Steve Cole]

Look your running in circles now and still not answering the base questions. You made comments that I was misleading people then you turn back around and state the same thing I have. The stock switching sensor is good for +/- .5 AFR. Since you like to use the term STOICH so much how about you explain that for all gasoline that is sold through the USA today! Are you here to say that STOICH is the same thing for all of them? The answer is HELL NO it's not the same and this is just why the sensor needs to have a range to work in and still be accurate. That is the range we use the sensor in, no more, no less. Trying to use it outside that range is foolish.

So now that we have proven to use the sensor in a range that it is deadly accurate in why can we not calculate the corrected VE values and place those in the ECM? Guess what WE CAN AND DO. Are we the only ones that can, Hell no and as I stated before GM, Ford, Chrysler and others have been doing it for years! If you are really a calibrator then you should have known that too!

Now let's move on to the Broad Band sensor. Have you got an answer yet to my previous question? You again stated i was misleading people but you offer up no proof, could it be you have none? How the fuel control works within the ECM is not what most want to know but there are a few that would. Most simply want to know that it works and there bike runs as it should. Since you have not worked with an HD system and have admitted to such how can you really say how it works!

What it boils down to is that people have been using the Broad Band sensors and making bike engines run good enough, so what's that tell us? It tells us that event with an inaccurate sensor system the engines still runs well. Since the Bosch documents show that it could be off as much as +/- 1.0 AFR that would lead one to believe as long as your within that range it must be good enough. I sure would not want to be off when at WOT to the lean side but error to the side of caution and be a little rich for safety on an air cooled motor. Now where does most of the riding occur and mileage come from? CLOSED LOOP control range is where it happens and that again is where the stock switching sensor is accurate!

So if you want accurate readings step up and spend the money to get lab quality equipment that properly reads the necessary inputs to give you an accurate value with Broad Band Sensors. The aftermarket boxes for 300 - 500 bucks are not going to give it to you and the aftermarket ECM's that use these sensors without using the proper inputs are not any more accurate!

How about we talk about the fuel for awhile since were talking about STOICH. Do you really event know the range that it runs in across the USA? Forget what the pump says, what it really runs as from station to station just in the USA. Then how about the rest of the world? How much change do you think that your going to see when running with different fuel once the bike engine has been tuned?

[FBRR]

This is my last post on the subject. Steve I mention Stoich because that is WHAT A narrow band sensor is used to control. And I say STOICH BECAUSE it varies so much with fuel type and brand. And yes, I've had the corp. fuel studies delivered to my desk for many years.

The point you IGNORE and haven't answered is given a FUEL that IS STOICH at 14.7, manufacturer's fuel control will vary in exteremly small increments from that value! For best emissions. Many of the aftermarket TUNERS are trying to tune a 14.7 (stoich fuel!) at 14.2 actual A/F ratio.Or quite simply the tuners are pushing the fuel control with "normal" stoich fuel far richer than any manufacturer! I can assure you there are no Tier I emsission vehicles trying to CONTROL at 14.2 ( for a fuel that is Stoich at 14.7!) The fuel control tables are calibrated about a much more "CENTERED" O2 sensor value! The aftermarket nominal A/F ratios are trying to push those narrow band sensor to control at the extremes of the sensor range! You can "get off your bike all you want!" but when a production calibration is done with a fuel that is 14.7 stoich and you get fuel that is stoich at 14.2 A/F you are still well within range of accuracy of the measuring device. The O2 sensor.
When you use fuel control designed around (14.7 stoich) and are controlling to actual 14.2 A/F ratio with that 14.7 stoich fuel, when YOU then get a variation in fuel "STOICH" (of again a 14.2 stoich fuel )you are trying to control well outside of the accuracy range of the sensor!!

So don't give me the "manufacturers" are doing it! THEY are NOT pushing nor is the production FUEL CONTROL designed to work at the Extreme accuracy range of the O2 sensor! They are controlling very close to mean STOICH A/F ratio. They are not pushing to the rich limit of the sensor.

[FLTRI]

All the above said, and boy a lot said. A couple points:
* Fact is the TTS Mastertune is the best we have and it is better by quite a lot.

* Also Broadband sensors, when used for tuning in a self-contained environment produces reliable, repeatable readings.

* Since long term reliability is relatively short with Broadband sensors when mounted to the exhaust right outside the exhaust port, after an auto-tune system has tuned the bike the sensors should be removed and the system returned to open loop and run off the tuned mapping.

So in my opinion everyone/system can win. Just have to understand the O2 sensors limitations and reliability issues and get a great tune and enjoy the ride.

I mean we're really worrying about a RCH or two, right?

Bob

[Steve Cole]

A narrowband sensor sees ONE THING oxygen or the lack of oxygen.

This is all ANY oxygen sensors see's, Narrow Band, Broad Band or Wide Band so what is the point?

While the Stoich switch point is calibrated by the manufacturer, change in voltage vs. A/F ratio is not absolute!!

NOT in our case as the user of the software is allowed to change it, this is what the CLB adjustment is

So while narrow band sensor can be used to CONTROL A/F from plus or minus .5 A/F ratio, that does not mean their "output" is accurate in that range for voltage vs. A/F.

Again it does mean it is accurate within the limited range that we have specified, not in all ranges

Fuel control in this instance does not mean "commanded" A/F, BUT it does MEAN Controled A/F within that range. CONTROL is dependant on FUEL CONTROL! FUEL CONTROL is the way  the switch point voltage is used in conjuction with software control of the fuel integrator! The intergrator is the result of reading the switch point voltage and both adding and subtracting fuel from the pulse width to DRIVE fuel control about a mean A/F ratio.

No argument from me on how it works but this is a little more in depth than I have tried to go here on the forum.

The bottom line here for those arguing that "narrow band" are "as accurate" as broadband sensors, is the narrow band can be used with correct APPLICATION of fuel control keep A/F ratios with plus or minus .5 a/f OF STOICH!

Here you go again, instead of calling out the range which I have done you leave it wide open and try to cover it with STOICH. Please list the range of STOICH for todays common gasoline fuels sold across the USA.I will bet you it falls right in to what I have stated!

The specification of narrow band sensors DOES NOT say they are accurate for VOLTAGE vs. A/F!
They are not!

Please present some documentation to show this. Bosch goes to great length to provide the data that we have that gives us ouput voltage Vs Lamdba. While it is non-linear it still measures Lambda Vs voltage!

Braodband sensors when correctly calibrated DO MEASURE Lamda A/F ratio vs. a GIVEN VOLTAGE!!

Just what I have been saying all along! The only issue here is what I highlighted in RED and as soon as the aftermarket begins to do this I am more than willing to admit it, but that is not the case with any of the ones on the market today.

The other elephant in the room with regard to broadband vs. narrowband VE development is the Broadband ais accurate vs.voltage ( when calibrated correctly) at 2 lamda ( much richer than narrow band range)

Yes, it sure is when used properly

Expected A/F ratios for power enrichment are much richer than stoich. To run  those power enrichment speed and load points at near stoich (for closed loop control with a narrow band sensor) and then actually commanding a very much richer A/F for best power will result in a change in VE!

Really, since VE represents the amount of air entering the cylinder versus its true displacement how is this going to change based on fuel mixture? Will there be some minute change, sure there is, but not enough to talk about here and by the way it changes each and every firing cycle too, so I guess we really need to have the VE value changed for each firing cycle.

So the best way to calibrate P.E , V.E's is to lock the integrator at nominal value, and command an A/F near the expected P.E. A/F. Then using a good A/F measurement device, set the VE's so actual and commanded are the same!

No argument from me on this one, but remember they must first have the proper equipment and tools to do it

So again you have still not answered any of my questions. You step in here and say that I am misleading people and then I stand up for what I know to be true and instead of answering the questions you start talking in circles. Now your dropping out with still no answers.

We are not talking about tuning emissions here we are talking about tuning to given AFR and the accuracy of doing just that. If I was to get into how it all works and why we would do things for catalyst efficiency, catalyst break through, cold start emissions and all the fine points an OEM  level calibration must go through today I would have lost everyone long ago! Are the OEM's tuning to something other than 14.7............ you bet ya and they have been doing it since 1994! Are they tuning to a fixed point through out the entire operating range of the engine while in closed loop control............... NO! There is a range that the stock O2 sensor can and does work in very accurately, stay within that range and all is well, go outside it and all bets are off.

[FBRR]

I said I would not post again, BUT then again I don't like anyone that thinks they can "shout down" and opposing viewpoint!

Steve said!
“So again you have still not answered any of my questions. You step in here and say that I am misleading people and then I stand up for what I know to be true and instead of answering the questions you start talking in circles.”

I did step in here and say RUFUS comment was misleading! Oh! Or is Rufus just Steve using a different orifice?
“The other elephant in the room with regard to broadband vs. narrowband VE development is the Broadband ais accurate vs.voltage ( when calibrated correctly) at 2 lamda ( much richer than narrow band range)

Yes, it sure is when used properly”
YUP! that's my point!
===================================================
And you seem offended when I use the term Stoich, when you know full well that is the proper term for what a narrow band is measuring, and not A/F!

Stating what “A/F” the sensor measures is MISLEADING to anyone that works with both types of sensors! As narrowband are not A/F devices, but STOICH switch point sensors!

NO CIRCLE THERE if you understand physics and fuel!

Maybe you can get RUFUS to respond too!!!

[Steve Cole]

I said I would not post again, BUT then again I don't like anyone that thinks they can "shout down" and opposing viewpoint!

Steve said!
“So again you have still not answered any of my questions. You step in here and say that I am misleading people and then I stand up for what I know to be true and instead of answering the questions you start talking in circles.”

I did step in here and say RUFUS comment was misleading! Oh! Or is Rufus just Steve using a different orifice?
“The other elephant in the room with regard to broadband vs. narrowband VE development is the Broadband ais accurate vs.voltage ( when calibrated correctly) at 2 lamda ( much richer than narrow band range)

Yes, it sure is when used properly”
YUP! that's my point!
===================================================
And you seem offended when I use the term Stoich, when you know full well that is the proper term for what a narrow band is measuring, and not A/F!

Stating what “A/F” the sensor measures is MISLEADING to anyone that works with both types of sensors! As narrowband are not A/F devices, but STOICH switch point sensors!

NO CIRCLE THERE if you understand physics and fuel!

Maybe you can get RUFUS to respond too!!!

No I'm me and I post with my real name right up front unlike you who hides behind a fake screen name and cannot or will not answer questions. I'm not shouting you down I'm just posting the information and asking you to do the same but you refuse. I am more than happy to post the Bosch document numbers to support what I've said and I have done so in the past many times. All you need to do is spend a little time searching on the subject. I have posted the same basic information that Rufus did so yes your statement applies to my comments.

You have a problem with answering questions and backing them up so that leads me to believe you are not who you claim to be. Then when I present the facts to you, you start in name calling and questioning my knowledge and abilities. The reason that I have asked several times for you to post what STOICH is was a very basic thing and you either know the answer and know it backs up what I've said or you really do not know what it is. In either case looks like that all your trying to do is  and provide no real information.

Users are not here to tune for emissions, nor are the end users trying to write the fuel control code that is already all done for them. What they are doing is calibrating the VE's for there modified components. They and I in this case could care less about a tier 1 emissions calibration. From what I see here from you I believe I have probably done more of that that you have, if you've done any at all!

* All O2 sensors measure oxygen doesn't matter which type

* Narrow band stock sensors do it over a narrow range and that range is output as a voltage.

* Broad Band sensors do it over a broader range and that range is output as a voltage

* Wide Band sensors measure it over the widest range of the three and output a voltage.

* Bosch publishes the O2 sensor voltage output versus Lambda for all three sensors

* OEM manufactures use narrow bands to do fuel control and donot use Broad bands for fuel control

* Current gasoline fuels sold across the USA today have a STOICH value between 14.28 - 14.68 and the narrow band sensors work great with them!

* I have stated to use the stock sensors within a range 14.2 - 15.0 outside of that your on your own!

* Tuners have tested what I've posted as well as HD and Delphi and it works just fine in that limited range.

* FBRR has no experience with a HD fuel system at all, from his own statements

This pretty much sums up what has been said other than the list of questions you have refused to answer!

[Steve Cole]

The ECM is getting data from more than one cell of the VE table at a time so V-tune puts back the corrections in more than one cell. Typically it will be going into 4 cells but not always. With this in mind you can see how the cell could be effected event if you did not get any data in one of them.

[Hogflash]

I said I would not post again, BUT then again I don't like anyone that thinks they can "shout down" and opposing viewpoint!

Steve said!
“So again you have still not answered any of my questions. You step in here and say that I am misleading people and then I stand up for what I know to be true and instead of answering the questions you start talking in circles.”

I did step in here and say RUFUS comment was misleading! Oh! Or is Rufus just Steve using a different orifice?

No, Rufus is not related to Steve.  No point in replying to someone who is not paying attention.  I have useful things to do!

--Gary

[strokerjlk]

Thanks Steve.  Makes sense to me AND thats a bitty piece of understanding that I know have.

My Mastertune has been permanently attached to the bike for 18 months.  Just unplg the data port.  I semi permanently installed the Twin Scan tonight.  Just have to swap out injectors.

Didn't try it as of yet.

Hey you guys, when unplugging the O2s to swap in the WBs, do any of you do anything with the leads?  Install O2 eliminators?  If so... how can I make an eliminator?

TIA

no you don't have to do anything with the connectors.
why injectors?
your making me CRAZY!      
YOU MIGHT AS WELL GO ALL THE WAY......complete the challenge that was put forth to me some time back.  Do A V-TUNE and save the map. do a DTS and save the map. take the two and go get a tune with a 4 gas analyzer. then analyze all three.
I will just challenge you to two....forget combining the two ...do a v-tune map...do a DTS map and see what you have SOP and take it to your new buds with the dyno and see what they do?

[wurk_truk]

HAHAHAH   

O2s  not injectors

[lonewolf]

I said I would not post again, BUT then again I don't like anyone that thinks they can "shout down" and opposing viewpoint!

Steve said!
“So again you have still not answered any of my questions. You step in here and say that I am misleading people and then I stand up for what I know to be true and instead of answering the questions you start talking in circles.”

I did step in here and say RUFUS comment was misleading! Oh! Or is Rufus just Steve using a different orifice?

No, Rufus is not related to Steve.  No point in replying to someone who is not paying attention.  I have useful things to do!

--Gary

Ahh, but you know him well.

[ViennaHog]

Looking at WT's VE tune sheet I see the same issues I have been chasing with my bike too. Look at the VE levels at 3/5/7 % TP and you notice numbers in some areas well beyond 90 and even up to 125. This is BS and will cause driveability issues. There was a lot of talk as reversion caused by certain cam, exhaust and a/c being the problem. My combo is s TW6, currently SE Touring mufflers and a SE a/c. Nothing even remotely outside the flight envelope. I took a 4 channel sniffer and set the VE's in these areas gradually lower until I hit a minimum HC value and called it good. Looks like the VE Tune method shows its limitations in the low TP areas

[FLTRI]

....Looks like the VE Tune method shows its limitations in the low TP areas

You will experience this exact condition/issue with any "auto-tune" system that wholeheartedly relies on O2 sensors to mandate fuel to the engine.
Tuners figgered this out after their first experience with an auto-tune system and low rpms with high overlap cam profiles.
These areas/issues, caused by reversion, etc., must be manually tuned.
Guess those looking to eliminate the tuner/$$ should keep with modifications that do not cause reversion issues. Like stockish cams and restrictive exhaust systems.
Bob

[ViennaHog]

Bob,
can't agree more with you. Sad thing is that mild combos like mine shows these limitations and the unsuspecting user will get into trouble with the self tune gadget and doesn't even know it. By now I think the VTune tool is great to get things in the ball park. The extreme end of the VE table is better left to the pros who know how to deal with the idiosyncrasies of the HD engine mods.

Regards VH

[Sonny S.]

I have nothing to add to this thread.....other than WOW !!  You guy's that really know this stuff have provided a ton of valuable information to the rest of us......even though I don't understand all of it 

great thread......thanks !! 

[Kricke]

wurk_truk

I'm in the end of my one tuning sessions and was wonder if you getting a VE top in the 0%tps section due to exhaust reversion and/or other things??? mine has a quite high top around 2250rpm (on
both front/rear)
If so,,, I was wondering if you smoooth the colum or just leavit as v-tune made it??
(or if you or any one els have some input in this matter???)

[wurk_truk]

Here is one data run.      http://www.box.net/shared/bbemnqq3lt

Open this in Datamaster, then go to 'view'... hit v-tune histogram.  On the histogram... hit start, and allow it to play out.

Haven't worked on 'smoothing and blending' getting the data in and do timing.  Idle.... hard to work with and WHY I also have Twin Scan.   AT some ponit... I will compare that area of tune...

I have DBW (no zero % column used, I don't have an IAC for idle, I have the plate motor).)... but looks like VEs are increased around 2000 rpm at 2,5,7% throttle with V-tuning Dyno dude map.

On the map I am presently playing with???  There seems to be simply a 'transition' vs the base map.  Low RPM in 2-7 columns are lower.  2000 rpm is spot on the base map.  2000+ starts to build upwards slowly.

Dead???  That was a cool question...  Here's why... On the OTHER base map, I was seeing a bulge.  On THIS base map, seeing a simple transition.  Do NOT know which is 'correct' but the transition looks like one would think.

[Kricke]

i have twin scanII and Wego IIID to so i have made several IRL 60,80 and 100tps runs.. (not many cops on the highways here,,, he he) just to see the differens from the dyno runs with motec o2 sensors and now it is micro changes just to smooth things out (a bit anal on the "it has to be as good as it can possible get" thing)

so the top in decel is now the last thing i will tinker with or leave! if it is the best choice??..

wow i see the extra monitor is a good investment... but you do not having the 0 and 2% in CL so we cant see if you have a top in 0% tps..

[Steve Cole]

You will never get to 0% tps in a DBW bike so it's of no concern. IF the TPS was to go to 0% you would have stalled the motor.

[glens]

If you stalled the motor, would it be in closed-loop or open-loop?  Hahaha!

[wurk_truk]

8 hours v-tuning.  That includes some data runs to get rid of timing being pulled by ION sensor.

I have SOME experience with this, so far.....   So... just so somebody reading this, this is NOT a SEST Smart Tune that gives you hardly any control.  THIS takes some time and effort to get the v-tune runs run correctly.

Cannot go and putt around for ten minutes.  To hit the cells takes running in 6th and dogging it out going uphill.  To hit cells, it takes 3rd gear and SCREAMING and holding THAT so that the cells fill in.   Think of how a dyno operator runs the bike... pretty much have to mimic THAT to get the cells to fill in on the Histogram.  This is NOT, go out and go through the gears twice and make a tune.....  EVERYONE needs to look at the histogram of EACH run to get a feel on how they are riding and filling cells.  Right now?  I can hit the cells on my 'track' without no where near the effort of the first run out.  I AM lucky to have hilly terrain.  I cannot believe how much I must have left on the table when I did a Stage 1 and when I did cams.

EASY to tell bike runs WAY better.  This from a base map that was NOT a dyno tune first.  (oh... MY Dyno Tune )

Now..... time to fiddle with TS2.

[wurk_truk]

I bow down to the King... StrokerJLK.

AFter playing with TS for like 10 minutes, it damwned on me how this all works.

Glens, and myself were talking crap when we said that we would have to refigure AFRs using the 'offset' CLBs.

Nope... not the case.

1) with NB O2s unplugged, the ECM is in OPEN loop at 14.6.  Cannot have closed loop without the O2s. TS will tune to the commanded 14.6

2)  thought this thru all wrong, too.  The ECM still commands 14.6 regardless of the CLB setting.  What the CLB setting does is trick the ECM into thinking the O2 is still reporting Stoich, and the ECM corrects to Stoich in closed loop.  The CLB changes what the sensor REPORTS as stoich, is all the CLB does.  In V-Tune, we need that 'trick' at hand to come up with the correct math.  Thats why the NEW v-tune if we change CLB.  The 'ticked out' O2 is in 'play' during V-Tune with all the math in tow.

Thats' why one can input outside data and NOT have to worry about it all.  There is no math 'trick' involved if tuned against commanded output.  Can change the CLB at will.  The ECM is actually tuned against actual command.

Command is how the Twin Scan works.  It sees what the command is, and sees what the final in the pipe AFR is, and states how much % to change each and every cell to match the commanded against the WBo2s.