84 Shovel Head FXE Upgrades

[Reddog74usa]

Can anybody tell me what upgrades the 84 Shovel Head FXE's had. Valves, crank, cam, isolated primary, electrics etc.

[rbonner]

Hardened valve seats.  Brakes, tires, carbs, the 84 had the late model clutch...  The clutch was probably the HUGEST change.  I hate clutches.

Rear brake in 84 was different.  The exhaust was different, the oil tank was different, but not so much you couldn't install late tank on older bikes.  They went to the cartridge oil filter in late 82...  The 84 was a transition year to the EVO, so there is a lot of evo like parts showing up on the bikes.

Watcha need to know for?

BOB

[Reddog74usa]

Thanks, do you know if the primary was isolated? I'm thinkin it might be if the clutch is the later style. I have a friend of mine that is selling his and I'm thinkin of getting it and figured they may a bit different so I thought I would ask so I know what I'm gettin into. I like the hardened seats for shur.

[rbonner]

Not on the FXE shovels...  They weren't making changes like that, too much work.  It's just us hot rodders who came up with that isolation plan.     The FXR guys might have had changes like that.  BUt 1984 was an E84 and L84 year.

Sit and think what evil the Motor Company had up their sleeve at the time.  They had just overthrown AMF by purposely mismanaging the company, they were financed to the teeth, sales were mega-low and they had all new product financed by AMF to get out.  They say it was exciting around the company now in the history books; I'd say it was probably more like Kaos...

They had boxes to the ceiling through ording mismanagement of inventory, much of it still sits in Vintage parts.  They now have a system where parts show up just as they are needed on the manufacturing line.

So once the company was taken over, it was shoving out the old inventory in a lets get this junk out the door mode.  Those lucky last shovels at least had the new clutches.  The reason?  Probably because the new ones were cheaper to make.

If you do research in the parts books (I have done this as library reading material for the last 20 years; you become ONE with the parts and the toilet) for FX and FL you'll be able to actually see a lot of history in the making and see what evil they had up their sleeves.  This stuff wasn't for stying or reliability.  Magnavox a huge manufacturer, made the first electronic ignitions, but went out of business.

Things like the 78, 78 1/2, E79, L79 fiasco, 1980 a year that in many ways stands alone, and the 81-82-83-E84 changes as parts for various things ran out.  You might think it was upgrades.  NAW, it was mostly finding suppliers for the parts for the cheapest prices and modifying brackets and stuff so those parts would fit.

Sure you had Willie G getting coked up and designing new wierd models while on a buzz...  But almost all the changes for FX/E were to get cheaper parts.  My FXEF-80, a L79 product, except for the upper engine mounts, and stupid dealer support, was an OK motorcycle.

I'd have to say much of the companies survival was better dealer training.  In my opinion, it still could be better.

BOB

[Reddog74usa]

So are ya sayin that the later shovels lacked the quality of the older ones? Aside from the slab side Shovels which ones in your opinion are the better years and or models? I heard the later Shovels had steel cranks instead of cast as told to me by the dealer when I bought my 79 80 inch Low Rider and the hardened seats starting in 82 so I thought the later bikes were a bit better.

[Old Crow]

My '82 is just fine.  Then again it's been completely rebuilt at least twice since '82.  Hopefully I've got the bugs out this time.

[rbonner]

No RD that's not what I am saying.  Refering to your original post, what changes "improvements" were happening to the late shovels.  Basically NONE.

I went into the mentality surounding the era.  MASS CHEAPENING OF PARTS COST.  Now this doesn't mean cheap junk, this means looking for cheaper suppliers of parts.  Something auto companies are doing every day.  If you can save twenty-five cents on something that goes into the machine, you just increased profit.

The changes from 1971 to E1978 in the FX world was function, engineering enhancement and modernization.

The next era there was a lot of parts changes from 1978 1/2 to E1984 that are more changes in suppliers...  Lots of little crap that is more irritation for the swap meet collector not a lot of cosmetic or functional changes.  Then in L84 the MC entered the modern era with the EVO bikes and they were back in business creating and engineering again.

The best thing about an 84 bike is the clutch, other than that there isn't much changed except minor crap from the 78 1/2 bikes.  When you look at the sales numbers 1979 was a huge year for HD then a major crash until they were established again after the take over and the EVO's came out, then sales started to climb through the HARLEY PHENOM.

The big problem is the little parts changes from 78 1/2 - E84.  Each model year has its own little collection of changes and makes them all individuals, a real PIA.  And none of those changes effected the operation.

BOB

[Reddog74usa]

Thanks for the great info Bob.I picked up an 84 FXEF today. I'll post some pics when I get a chance. the bags n seat have already been handeled LOL!!!!  Like the minute I got it off the truck.

[rbonner]

Yeah RD already sent me the pics...  I feel honored.  He's picked himself up a nice ride...

BOB

[Reddog74usa]

Thanks Bob,  I found it interesting that it came through with an Evo points cover and evo brake calipers along with a spin on oil filter located under the trans

[HotRodShovel]

Real nice ride man. Best of luck.

[76shuvlinoff]

nice ride, enjoy it!

[rbonner]

Yeah that was the first thing I noticed, the EVO points cover...  Pop riveted on too...  Don't wreck that.

The spin on filter happened in 82.

The rear brake was an 83 addition also the remote master cylinder...

an E84 is watch all these parts get used up machine...  It would be interesting to see what month your bike was built in, as to how close to the end it was...

I will fall on my sword if it was something like the LAST SHOVEL BUILT....

Hey get up tomorrow morning and see if you can kick start it...  It has electronic ignition, but it will only start if it is active on first revolution.

BOB

[HotRodShovel]

Yeah Bob,  I noticed that V2 pop rivet cover myself. What is an Evo points cover doing on a Shovel..that is interesting. As you said, Bob, it has to be one of the last to roll off the line.

RD you should give the vin to someone here who can do some background work on it.  I think we would all be interested to find out its place.

[rbonner]

Good Ole' FXEF, Fat Bob; Fat Tanks and Bobbed Fender.  One of the finest bikes built in the era.

OH, went for a couple rides around town yesterday had my FLHT out early to run errands, and then took the 09 FXDC (Dyna Custom) Superglide out for a Wash and Spin....

In all the bikes in the stable, that simple black and chrome Superglide is by a long shot my favorite bike in the barn.  I'll need to be on my last leg to see the 79 go away, but all the other bikes I could consider parting with, but the FXDC would be the one I would keep til last.  If any of you guys are considering a new bike, or even just looking to test ride for ride's sake...  Try an FXDC and compare it to your FXE's  You might just fall in love too.

BOB

[Ultrashovel]

So are ya sayin that the later shovels lacked the quality of the older ones? Aside from the slab side Shovels which ones in your opinion are the better years and or models? I heard the later Shovels had steel cranks instead of cast as told to me by the dealer when I bought my 79 80 inch Low Rider and the hardened seats starting in 82 so I thought the later bikes were a bit better.

Later shovels were just as good as the earlier ones. With a knowledgable owner, they are all good.

AFAIK, all of the Shovelheads had cast iron flywheels made from the Meehanite process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meehanite

[Reddog74usa]

Thanks Ultra, I guess the dealer that sold me my new 79 Lowrider was full a bull. Bob I'm with ya on the FXDC. I took an 07 for a test ride and was very close to buyin it but the dealer wouldn't budge on the price and it was very high. I was at the same dealer over a year later n they still have that bike LOL!!!!!. Is there any body that can tell where this FXEF is as far as when it was made?

[Ultrashovel]

Thanks Ultra, I guess the dealer that sold me my new 79 Lowrider was full a bull. Bob I'm with ya on the FXDC. I took an 07 for a test ride and was very close to buyin it but the dealer wouldn't budge on the price and it was very high. I was at the same dealer over a year later n they still have that bike LOL!!!!!. Is there any body that can tell where this FXEF is as far as when it was made?

If you have the FXS Four Speed manual, it tells all of the info about the year built from the VIN Number. I have one but it's buried in my office somewhere.

I'd bet that someone here knows how to tell the year on a Shovelhead VIN number.

[Reddog74usa]

I found a site that has the info needed to ID a Harley vin but it doesn't tell you when it that year it was produced. This bike was built in York and is a FXEF and is an 84 but I don't know when in the year it was built.

[76shuvlinoff]

Fatboy Sir Garfield posted this link on the General page recently. I have not tried it yet but here ya go.

http://www.motoverse.com/tools/vinDecoder.asp

Now I see it does not work for pre-81 vehicles

[rbonner]

Well pre 81 is easy...  Vin ending in H9 is a 79...  1980 is a J0, the B-C-D or E before the Y for york and the six digit Id number B=81, C=82, D=83, E=84...  Pretty simple stuff.

BUt what you need to do is get the INFO from historical department...  CALL HD with your serial number in hand...  Tell the guy after getting past the receptionist that you have a 1984 Shiovelhead and you'd like to know when it was actually made, etc...  Here's the serial.  They should be able to tell you.

BOB

[Ultrashovel]

I found a site that has the info needed to ID a Harley vin but it doesn't tell you when it that year it was produced. This bike was built in York and is a FXEF and is an 84 but I don't know when in the year it was built.

Well, since you know that it's a 1984, my best guess would be that it was built sometime later in 1983. In 1984, the MoCo was changing over to the Evolution and there weren't too awfully many Shovelheads built.

By the way, I just found my 1978-1/2 to 1984 Service Manual for FL/FX. It includes a section on the then new Evolution with pictures of the 1984 Evolution Softail, complete with kickstarter.

I found the page on the VIN Number for 1981 and later bikes. They don't show an FXEF but they do show an FXE.

The sample VIN that they show is:

Harley-Davidson Motorcycle =  1 HD 1
BA = FXE 80 c.i.
K or L = Engine Type.
1, 2, or 3 = Factory use.
1 through 9 = Factory Check Digit.
Model year B = 1981; C = 1982; D = 1983; E = 1984
Y ?
010000 = Sequential Number (serial number within that model)

So a typical 1984 FXE VIN might read:

1HD1BAK11EY010000

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

             

I have to say, I wish I could buy a new Shovelhead from Harley-Davidson. I sold my 1982 FXS a few years ago because it had some issues that annoyed me. If I could find a new one, I'd be a happy camper. They are an elegant bike.

My favorite of all of the Shovelhead models was the FXWG. It was the prototypical design for all of the later cruiser bikes with forward controls, wide big forks and 21" front wheel. It had all of the good features of the FX series.

[Reddog74usa]

I did the kick start test. Two twists on the throttle, lift the enrichner up all the way, ignition off two primer kicks, bring it up on the compression stroke, ignition on and holy thunder Batman she fires up on the first kick.  Anybody have the number for H-D I can call to get the production date info on this bike? I believe the original owner said he bought it in Dec. of 83 so it may not be one of the very last.

[Ultrashovel]

Anybody have the number I can call to get the info on this bike?

What more do you need?.......See my VIN number info just above.

As I recall, the early FXE had the small round loaf of bread fuel tank and handlebar-mounted speedometer and tachometer. It was originally a 1200 cc (74"). The FXEF was an 80" FX with a set of Fat Bob tanks and a tank-mounted dash and speedometer. The 80" engine came out after 1978-1/2. It has the 4-1/4" stroke and a 3-1/2" bore.

If yours has an "E" 8 digits from the end of the VIN number, it was a 1984.

Happy Trails.

[rbonner]

I did some quick checking, NO FXEF after 81...  However it could be a low rider.  We need to know the CODES  1HD1 then two letters, what are the two letters?.

[HotRodShovel]

I'm betting its close to the last of the Shovels rolled off the line.

[Reddog74usa]

Hers the beginning of the vin# 1HD1BBK33EY then the production number. The two letters  BB indicate that it is a FXEF. Ultra your info is good however it only tells ya the production number for a particular model but not  for the shovels as a whole so that's why I need to call the MOCO to find out where this bike stands in the entire "production" numbers for 84. Hey it ain't gonna make it run any better but it would be good to know. Heres a site with more info.

http://www.terry-zone.com/tech/vin.php

[FSG]

See attached,  Service Bulletin M-895 Crossover Hose - 1985 FXEF - FXSB Vehicles

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Reddog74usa]

FSG that bulliten is for 85 models

[FSG]

FSG that bulliten is for 85 models

True, just posted it in response to

I did some quick checking, NO FXEF after 81...

Can you not get the full VIN ?

[Reddog74usa]

Ok got it. Sent ya a pm.

[rbonner]

Funny I got the 81 FXEF out of my parts book.  SO its obvious that even HD doesn't know what they built.  Cool.  The more confusion surrounding your bike the better...  Making it even more rare.

What would be best if HD said, we didn't make those and you saying its a BB model...  You best bring that to the factory, we must have only made one of those...

NOW, the "3" after the K means SPECIAL and EARLY 84 MODELS only.  KEWL, you're SPECIAL...  hahahhahahaa

BOB

[rbonner]

The kicker was also probably the dealer installed one.  I'm so happy your bike starts with the kicker, my 78 1/2 had the kicker installed but the previous owner installed an electronic with a two rotation before fire electric start only configuration.  What a waste of a kicker.

BOB

[catmcaw]

Does the bike have a wet clutch?

[Ultrashovel]

The kicker was also probably the dealer installed one.  I'm so happy your bike starts with the kicker, my 78 1/2 had the kicker installed but the previous owner installed an electronic with a two rotation before fire electric start only configuration.  What a waste of a kicker.

BOB

Kickers were on some models up to the start of the Evolution. It's entirely possible that many '84 Shovelheads had kickers. The 1984 FXST (first Evolution) hown in the front of the four speed manual has a kick starter.

I used to use my kick stater all of the time on my former 1982 FXS. It wasn't a good starter at first with the poor HD ignition and the side-draft Keinih carburetor. Then I added a CV carb and a modern electronic ignition (forgot the brand) and it was a one-kicker every time. However, it started so easy with the button I never used the kicker again.

[rbonner]

US, I agree and don't agree.  On the FX models:

Models like the FXS always had kickers, they also had chrome where the base models didn't.  You also paid $500 for the dress up.  Generally across the board they started removing kickers in 1978.  And for all those models 78 and later they had the dealer installed option of the kicker for $169.95.

I'm not saying there isn't a model out there like the early FXWG's (and Specials) that didn't have a kicker, but they were for the most part on the shovels after 78 a dealer installed option....

Just because a guy owned an FXE that had a kicker, doen't mean it came with it.  My 78 1/2 had one added, I also had the bare cover and parts that came with the bike from before when the kicker was added.  Both my 79 FXEF's did not have kickers, but they could have had them added.

I remember when I bought my first 79.  I go, hey there's no kicker?  The salesguy says, doen't need one its got a starter and started laughing.  I go well thats not funny, what if the battery runs down and wont crank...  He goes if the battery is drained it ain't a Honda, you won't get it started on the kicker either.  New law with the headlights turned on all the time...  Thats why I fixed that problem on my latest restore.

Funny about HD, they just sort of do things when the spirit moves them...  Things like putting a kicker on a bike or chrome on a chain guard.  They seem to do stuff like that to spice up a new model.

Anyway,

BOB

[Ultrashovel]

............Funny about HD, they just sort of do things when the spirit moves them...  Things like putting a kicker on a bike or chrome on a chain guard.  They seem to do stuff like that to spice up a new model.

Anyway,

BOB

That's why we love Harleys, the MoCo makes these unpredictable changes so that we armchair historians can spend some of our time trying to figure out what was original equipment on our bike 30 years later. LOL.

[Reddog74usa]

Catmcow thanks for the pics. Can you tell me the name of that color red?
The original owner said he had the kicker added as it didn't originally have a kicker. I do have the same pipes and air cleaner that are in the pic the Catmcow posted with the bike. Anybody know what the designation California special means?

[Ultrashovel]

Here are a couple of pics (Nov 1984) of a late 84 FXEF just off the showroom floor.

It appears to be identical to an FXS. Does anyone know the difference between the FXS and the FXEF?

[catmcaw]

Reddog
  The color in the picture does not look candy red but it was.  I still have the bike but its in pcs. 

[rbonner]

Here are a couple of pics (Nov 1984) of a late 84 FXEF just off the showroom floor.

It appears to be identical to an FXS. Does anyone know the difference between the FXS and the FXEF?

FXS lowrider, two tone paint, chrome everywhere, rear sissy bar with stash bag.  Kicker.  The lowrider had a 2" longer front fork and drag bars and frame mounted oil cooler with cover. The seat was actually 1" higher than the FXEF.

FXEF had brushed aluminum everything, buckhorn bars the BOBBED FENDERS just like the FXS and the Fat tanks and same dash.

The FXS was a $500 more expensive bike up till 1980, I don't know the price difference in 1984.

BOB.

[FSG]

... difference between the FXS and the FXEF

There is a lot of alphabet information around, but basically the E is for Electric Start and the F is for Fatter (Bigger) Tanks i.e Fat Bob.

[rbonner]

The original owner said he had the kicker added as it didn't originally have a kicker. I do have the same pipes and air cleaner that are in the pic the Catmcow posted with the bike. Anybody know what the designation California special means?

Yeah RD, California Special means Special for California Use, has early CARB (California Air Reseach Board) exhaust crap on it.  ON EVO's this also included a tiny cam, and super lean jetting, a fuel tank charcoal filter and catalitic convertor exhausts...  On the shovel it was probably only lean jetting on the carburator.... 

BOB

[Reddog74usa]

Thats strange as it was sold new in Va.

[Ultrashovel]

The original owner said he had the kicker added as it didn't originally have a kicker. I do have the same pipes and air cleaner that are in the pic the Catmcow posted with the bike. Anybody know what the designation California special means?

Yeah RD, California Special means Special for California Use, has early CARB (California Air Reseach Board) exhaust crap on it.  ON EVO's this also included a tiny cam, and super lean jetting, a fuel tank charcoal filter and catalitic convertor exhausts...  On the shovel it was probably only lean jetting on the carburator.... 

BOB

Correct on the California Special.

Other than minor differences here and there, not a great deal of difference. That was one of HD's problems in fighting the Japanese motorcycle invasion in the 1970's to 1990's -not a lot of new stuff.

The regular FXE looked a little different with it's "loaf of bread" fuel tank and the instruments on the handlebars. Like the 1971 "Night Train", the owners stripped them down the minute the engine cooled off from the ride home form the dealer's place.

Remember the 1971 Boattail on the Night Train? The Sportster had a similar one (different part number). Those were one of Willie G's first cases of total rejection. Those got pulled the next day. To say that they were unpopular would be a complete understatement.

Willie also made a foolish change with the "up for low" reversed gear shift lever. I mean, what was he thinking? I used to ride scrambles on a BSA and the damn one up, three down shifter was a total PITA. Triumph, even in the early years had it the other way. Coming into a tight corner it's much easier to stomp down rather than to lift up when your momentum is going the other way. Those shift levers got tossed in the trash as well.

The Night Train also had the "drop leg" frame wth no room for an electric starter on that model. It was kick start only....I use the word "start' advisedly since, with the points ignition and the Bendix carburetor starting on the tenth or twelfth kick was the norm. It also had a tiny, tiny, battery. That was another nice feature.

Then there was the Sporty fork with no damping and a pretty but useless Japanese style drum brake, guaranteed not to stop. I also wondered about the hydraulic drum rear brake.

Although the '71 Night Train was the prototype for many nice bikes to come later, I have to believe that Willie was experimenting with something when he designed some of the features....Then there was the XLCR......oh well. LOL.

But we love them anyway, don't we?

[billbuilds]

     Ultra,
     Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that the last of the "drop seat" swing arm frames was used in 1964. Since they needed more room for the electric start and reconfigured oil tank/battery box the 1965 and later frames were all of the electric start/level seat style.  This should include the 1971 FX Nitetrain.  Bill

[Ultrashovel]

     Ultra,
     Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that the last of the "drop seat" swing arm frames was used in 1964. Since they needed more room for the electric start and reconfigured oil tank/battery box the 1965 and later frames were all of the electric start/level seat style.  This should include the 1971 FX Nitetrain.  Bill

The one that I worked on was original and there was no room for much of anything on top of the transmission. I presume that it had an original frame.

I'm used to being corrected, though. Wife does it all the time. 

[76shuvlinoff]

I'm used to being corrected, though. Wife does it all the time

yep I don't even look where I'm driving anymore......

[billbuilds]

The one that I worked on was original and there was no room for much of anything on top of the transmission. I presume that it had an original frame.





     The starter basically goes behind the transmission. If there was a "drop seat" frame made after 1964 I'd love to see it. Yes, I rolled on the floor in hysterics, too.   

[Ultrashovel]

The question is......if a married biker goes out in the woods alone, is he still wrong? 

[Old Crow]

Ultra, only when he gets home and tells his wife about it.

[billbuilds]

The question is......if a married biker goes out in the woods alone, is he still wrong? 

     I find that it's alway nice to pass along good information. Seems like when it's done without a need for ego and one-up-manship, buildings remain standing, unnecessary wars don't get fought and  catastrophic oil spills of epic proportion are averted.

[easyricer]

on the inside of the cam chest there should be some numbers, called the federal way numbers, I think. It's the production line codes. with that code and your vin number you can figure out what day the bike was built and what number for that day.(1st bike built that day or 25th)
I did some research on one of my engines a few years back and found it was from an 85 Softail. I was even able to reconstruct the bikes original vin number from the abbreviated vin on the motor and the federal way numbers so I could get info on the motors origin and history. I found out that the bike had been purged from the registration system because it was not registered, so I could claim the title to it.
I can't remember the sites that helped me do all of this but I searched for them on google, you should be able to do the same.
EASY

[Reddog74usa]

Thanks easy. That's what I was lookin for. A way to find out just when it was actually produced.

[The Don]

Hi Guys,
This site has a calculator that will give you details on the production date of your bike to the day and unit number . It uses the VIN number to do this.
It will do only pre twin cam though.

http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/vin.htm

Cheers,
Cris.

[rbonner]

Interesting, told me mine was built on May 11 of 79.  177th unit produced that day.  But the info required the ten digit engine number...

The only reason I had the ten digit engine ID is because the original owner was anal and wrote it on the manual cover along with the serial.  My engine is stamped with the VIN number not the ten digit engine number.

Supposedly HD only stamped the ten digit number for two months in 79 and there was all sorts of confusion regarding bikes not having matching numbers and they went back to the old system of stamping VIN...  Also, with the 81 newer bikes they only stamped partial VIN as the motor number on a whole bunch of models.

Everybody else chime in here.  I want education on this...  What are you seeing on your bikes using this calculator.  My 6E-H9 VIN in the engine space produced bogus data.

BOB