No start, but everything is new

[JohnS_Rosamond]

I replaced the inner primary- '94, outer primary '94, new OEM starter '94, new jackshaft, new relay, clutch, good battery cables and a 6 month old battery (good on a load tester, fully charged).  Most of the time, its starts fine, once in a while, I can hear the solenoid click (and I think it kicks out a little), but the bendix just wont engage.  If I jump the starter, it turns over like no tomorrow.  Anyway, it's been really hot here (100°F ambient), on my last stop of the day, it wont start.  Click, click - embarrasment.  I jump the starter and it's good-to-go.  Since my 1988 has the older style battery (and this is a 1.4kw starter), could my battery be just a little too small (in amperage)?  I have ordered one of those external starter push buttons.  I have considered binding on the jackshaft, but it doesn't seem to be bad.  Would a one piece jackshafts help me if binding were an issue?  I am sure that this is not a case where the jackshaft is hitting the back of the ring gear since I rocked the bike back and forth in gear and that didn't help.

[baldoldfxr]

I would have thought that if the battery didn't have the capacity to turn the starter it would be worst when cold & probably play up more consistently, What alternator are you using 22 amp ? -do you have a splined rotor ?,
perhaps bench testing the starter as per the manual would at least eliminate it, alough since it spins well when jumped I would be wondering about either a poor electrical connection or possible charging issues, I've known lots of old cars which have occasional sticky starters the usual (temporary) cure was to tap the starter with a piece of wood . does this happen after lots of low speed riding with lights on ? or anything like that.

[guido4198]

I had a similar issue once on my '85...
Rapping the solenoid with the butt of my knife would give me a temp. solution. Seems like it was a"sticky" solenoid. Replaced it, problem went away. 

[Grayrider]

Does this happen hot and cold motor?
The standard HD battery has 270CCA for the Softail line. About 300 - 375 for the touring bikes. If the battery is good it will easily turn the starter. If the starter is also good.
I had a similar problem and I replaced both the starter and the one year old battery as both had issues.
Even though it is intermittent, sounds like you have a starter issue.
Long term it will also damage the battery!  My weak starter and my persistence caused the battery to get hot from time to time and it resulted in damaging the battery.   

[wfolarry]

The external start button should solve the problem. I have one on my bike & it does the same thing when cold. Push that little button on the starter & it fires right up. It's a low voltage issue with the starter button that's hard to track down. That little button works a lot better.

[JohnS_Rosamond]

It's only done this to me once in 6 months, and it was really hot.  I have the 32 amp charging system.  I have looked at the starter and the tail shaft seems to be free.  I have looked at the trigger wire and that probably is the deal. I have tried hard to look for bad grounds, broken wires but everything looks good.  If this is a jackshaft issue, maybe it has to take a set in the bearing (yeah, right).  So, I'm gonna put an odyssey battery in it and install the push button on the solenoid and we'll have to see how that works out.

[Gonzo]

Any new info, John? My buddy has a 95 bagger with the same problem, and its gone on for a couple of years. EVERYTHING has been replaced and /or checked & re-checked. How do we install an outside starter button?
Gonzo

[JohnS_Rosamond]

I think that my best hope is the new Odyssey battery.  If there is some reason that the battery is not giving full voltage, then the magnet might not suck the solenoid plunger all the way back (giving partial movement).  The Odyssey battery is more powerful and may give me the fix.  I'll tell you next week.  The external start button is part sold by the aftermarket (you can find them on the J&P cycle web site).  For about $40 you get a complete replacement for the solenoid end plate that has a spring loaded button on it.  Start the bike with your finger when needed.  I just talked to a guy with a 1990 FXRT and he says that he has had this problem for a while also.

[Scootrskum]

I have a '93 with the same problem for over three years now. I have done virtually everything I have read or been told including installing a new battery, new larger battery cables, an extra ground wire, new solenoid kit, new starter, new starter button, several new relays, checked every wire from front to back and on and on. My buddy is the Service Mgr. at a local Stealership and he says they have the same problems trying to fix them. It has to be a voltage drop but I can't figure it out. Sure would like to hear a fix for the problem. I installed the "push button" on the end of the starter to avoid the embarrassment. Works great but still wish I could fix the problem. 

[xlfan]

How about that little bearing ball inside ''worm drive''? Is it present?

xlfan

[JohnS_Rosamond]

XLFan, are you talking about inside the starter itself or the jackshaft?  I haven't had the starter apart, so couldn't tell.

[xlfan]

It is in between solenoid plunger and starter clutch, the bearing ball is in bottom of output shaft, and is often overlooked when starter clutch is replaced.

xlfan

[Dave*M]

Ran across the very same problem on an early 90's bagger.If you have the relay using the 5 posts that is where the problem lies.There are too many wires and the voltage drop is too much to start the bike alot of the time.I fixxed his problem by wiring the bike with 4 wires to the relay and left the middle post empty on the relay.Since then he has never had an issue starting.He replaced everything on his bike as well.
I will try to find my notes on the wires that you cut and where the other wires go to shorten the distance of wires to stop the voltage drops.

[Scootrskum]

I will try to find my notes on the wires that you cut and where the other wires go to shorten the distance of wires to stop the voltage drops.

Please do. I'm sure there are quite a few of us that would appreciate that!!

[86fxwg]

Since it starts by jumping the solenoid,u have to have a voltage drop.Either across the relay or the ground of the relay,the hot wire to the relay.What amp relay are you using.

Dave

[JohnS_Rosamond]

Quick update:  The Odyssey battery seems to be the fix.  I haven't ridden the bike like I had that day on a bunch of little errands, but the starter cranks every time.  Also, I installed the pushbutton for the solenoid(easy install).

86fxwg: I'm just running the relay that Harley sells.  I was not aware that I could get a different amperage relay.  I added an extra ground to the starter relay a while ago thinking it would help, so I don't think the ground is it.  I agree that I'm losing a small amount of voltage, I just can't find out where. 

[wfolarry]

The odyssey battery is nice [I have one] & that backup system is worth it.  Been that way on my bike for a while now.

[Grayrider]

Anyone have a picture of the switch or the wiring setup to install?

[Dave*M]

The people that have the starting problem with their bikes need to check out if their start relay uses 5 or 4 wires on it.If you use the 4 wires then you have a different problem than too much wiring before the starter solenoid.If your bike uses all 5 wires on your starter relay then there is a way to stop the voltage drops through all the wires.This is why most bikes start with the solenoid being jumped.I have done a few bikes that this was an issue on and have stopped their problem with hitting the start button and only getting a click or very slow start that will not start the bike.
E-mail me and I will try to explain what I do depending on what bike you have.
davemcculloch121@msn.com

[Mark222]

My 91 FLHTCU has the same issue, and I just installed the solenoid button too.  Always works, but like the rest, would like "the cure" for this issue too.

Mark

[JohnS_Rosamond]

GrayRIder.  The switch is just a slightly modified solenoid end cap.  You take off the three screws that hold the end cap on, take off the cap, put on the new cap (with the button) and then put the three screws back in.  Couldn't have been easier.  Look at the page link here.

http://www.jpcycles.com/search/search?N=28002800&Ntt=starter&Ntk=All&Nao=160

[Old Crow]

On my FLT, the starter relay gets it's power from the ignition switch.  I decided that there was too much voltage drop running all the power for the starter solonoid and the headlights through the ignition switch, so I just took that wire and added another relay to it.  That way the original wire that supplied power to the starter relay only actuates the new relay, which feeds power directly from the battery to the starter relay.  No more worries.

[JohnS_Rosamond]

Hey OldCrow, I'm not bad at putting parts together, but I think that I am not so good with electricals to quite get how to do what you describe.

One addendum: Odyssey battery.  On thie web site and in the instructions with the battery it actually states that, "With custom V-Twin applications you may severely discharge the battery after 150 miles of riding."  ??  So, I contacted them and the issue apparently revolves around big displacement engines (needing a lot of starting power), and a 6-speed transmission that means that engine rpm may be below 2000 rpm for extended times.  In that case, you will probably have to charge the battery when not riding to keep it charged.  For a more stock application (like ours), he says that I probably wont have any trouble.

[TheSwede]

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/files/pc545.pdf

Hi John,, read the article.

Best Regards
TheSwede

[still_havinfun]

hey mark, i don't have the wiring diagram for the 91 flhtcu but i have the one for the 90 and they should be the same. have you ever had the front fairing off? behind it and beside the radio there is an orange wire coming from the ignition switch and running through a single male/female connector and travels from there to the starter relay socket for the #30 imput to the relay. there can develop a large voltage stealing resistance at that connector. i solved the problem with my starter by just eliminating that connector and soldering the wires. life is good now! it might be me but the bike seemed to run better after that.