Does your bagger handle like a drunken camel in a sand storm?

[DrSpencer]

That doesn't describe my 2011 Street Glide, at all.

Well I wouldn't rule it out.. At 70 or higher is the basis for this discussion.. There are different levels from a nice little rumba to a full out Tahitian Dance.. All bikes will do it to some extent.. When things are shaken enough that your Tassels start are falling off, you got problems..

Max

Given my bike (2011 SG), and the situation I described above, where on the bike should I first start to look for fixes/mods/etc?

Thanks again

[FLTRI]

Given my bike (2011 SG), and the situation I described above, where on the bike should I first start to look for fixes/mods/etc?

Thanks again

Replace your shocks with the std 1" longer shocks. That will provide more travel for your suspension.
Put whatever psi in them to keep the bike from bottoming.
Make sure your tire pressures are correct for the tires you run. (look at the "Max Cold Pressure" on the side of the tire.
HTH,
Bob

[7hogs]

That doesn't describe my 2011 Street Glide, at all.

Well I wouldn't rule it out.. At 70 or higher is the basis for this discussion.. There are different levels from a nice little rumba to a full out Tahitian Dance.. All bikes will do it to some extent.. When things are shaken enough that your Tassels start are falling off, you got problems..

Max

Given my bike (2011 SG), and the situation I described above, where on the bike should I first start to look for fixes/mods/etc?

Thanks again

Progressive 940's 

[JDILLY]

I have built a 2000 rd glide for speed runs,I built a great motor bu did not research the chassis at all.Went to limestone Maine in July omg,what a wobble!![dunkin camel].know back to the drawing board.Dave pererwitz was up there with a beautiful bike that he built for his daughter,rubber mount,he had replaced the cleave blocks with aluminum blocks[solid].maybe a little more vibration than I want.I have read through this post,and all great information,but what is going to work better for me trying to go really fast.have any one any experience with the set up on the g2 street pro frames?

[FLTRI]

As an older bike (2000), hopefully you have completely rebuilt the chassis:
1) New alignment links
2) New Cleave Block swing arm rubbers
3) New swing arm bushings
4) Check/adjust alignment

If the above has not been accomplished adding do-dads claiming to fix wobble may help but not cure the underlining worn out parts issue(s).
Replacing the frame in lieu of identifying and repairing/replacing the problem is not, IMO, a proper fix.

Just my $.02,
Bob

[JDILLY]

I'm sorry, I meant the heim joint links that they put from the cleave block area to the swing arm.All the things that you mentioned will be replaced and checked.

[Spudislandbiker]

I've read this thread with great interest. While it was going on, my Glide-Pro ride system was being shipped to me to install on my 05 FLHRCI. It made me nervous as to the value for the dollar I spent on their system.

All that said, the Glide-Pro system on my bike made a considerable difference in the ride stability and smoothness of my ride. I waited to put on a few thousand K before deciding. I have to admit I really like how the Glide-Pro system preforms. Especially  on those ruts that run along the road that used to make my bike feel like the frame is twisting under me. I look for those ruts and ride in them to feel nothing in terms of twisting or uncomfortableness.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Admiral Akbar]

I waited to put on a few thousand K before deciding.

Well ride it for another 6 years and swap back to a new set of stock rubbers.. Let us know it you feel any difference..    Max

[FLTRI]

I waited to put on a few thousand K before deciding.

Well ride it for another 6 years and swap back to a new set of stock rubbers.. Let us know it you feel any difference..    Max

[Glide1962]

I waited to put on a few thousand K before deciding.

Well ride it for another 6 years and swap back to a new set of stock rubbers.. Let us know it you feel any difference..    Max

  I just replaced the swingarm rubber on my '02 with 50K.  New rubber measured .060" thicker  each side than what I took out.  Thing is I really didn't notice how bad it had gotten, but I do notice how much better it is.   

[Spudislandbiker]

I waited to put on a few thousand K before deciding.

Well ride it for another 6 years and swap back to a new set of stock rubbers.. Let us know it you feel any difference..    Max

I can't speak to a comparison, the only way to do that is to swap the mounts out for 'new' stock ride it and compare. All I can say is that the Glide Pro system made it considerably better without any added vibration. I'm happy!!!!

[Admiral Akbar]

What is better? Spending 400 bucks, 100 bucks, or 2bucks if you get the same results?

Max

[todd10]

Has anyone tried this setup?

http://www.riveraprimoinc.com/html/new-suspension.html

I do like Max's innovation!

[pappy42]

Does a fellow just buy replacement bushings for his year and model from Harley?  Do you just install them per the manual?

[coastie56]

My Velva ride front engine mount were a few bucks more than an OE mount. It is urethane instead of rubber and it came from V Thunder and comp cams. The rubber doughnuts cost about 40 dollars a piece and they are all pretty easy to replace with a friends help and a hydraulic type jack/lift (like the ones from Sears) and your shop manual. They are many postings on the net, one of the best is Jake's on his glide pro website.

[ClassicRider2002]

Alright so I have found this THREAD and have read through it a couple of times. 

Bringing it back from the dust......

I must say that there was some interesting information here but some of the R&D effort has not been completed so I have a few questions and perhaps we can fill in the blanks:

Obviously Max the story line begins with your bike handling like a drunken camel in a sand storm.  So given that you measured your axial movement for both your 2002 RKC (.005") and your 05 EG (.030") it shows that bikes can exist with different axial run out since the number on the EG was .030" of axial movement you decided to make a shim/spacer out of sheet stainless steel material that was close and at .035" in thickness. 

I understand the consistency of you leaving your worn out tire on the bike throughout your testing procedures as you were trying to take out the "drunken camel" even while having the worn out tire, knowing if you were successful with a bad tire things would only be wonderful with a good tire.

Question#1:  What was the size of the outer diameter of the shim/spacer, do you have a number to provide to us?  I realize you drilled a 5/8" inner diameter hole for it to fit but what does the outer diameter need to be at? 

Question #2:  After you put the .035" shim/spacer on the left side, why didn't you remeasure the axial end play again after you took the bike out for a couple of rides which would have allowed the bike to "settle in" again, to see if the axial endplay was completely taken out by the .035" shim/spacer or whether there was still some increase in the axial end play/run out?

Question #3  I grasp your initial logic as to why you chose to quickly put another .035" shim/spacer on the right side of the bike while you were replacing the rear tire since the tire would be off of the bike giving you an easier approach to removing the swing arm shaft/axle and easily inserting the shim/spacer.  But why did you do add the .035" shim/spacer to the right side without first actually checking the end play with just the one shim/spacer on the left side as I mentioned above, you must have had a reason not obvious to me at least?

Question #4  Why did you assume that adding another .035" spacer was going to provide a additional improvement to the end play run out?  Obviously one thing that was going to happen for sure is that by adding the additional .035" shim/spacer to the stack would put the spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts in a more compressed state, but the question remains to what purpose did you choose to do this, without first checking to see if they were needed at all.  The only thing I can figure is that you did it to provide a "balance" to the stack, ie: added to left thus added to the right as well.  But my contention would be why not  pick material that was .018" to the left and then .018" to the right for such a balance. 

Perhaps you had a reason for this but didn't offer it via the THREAD, as you simply added it, the interesting comment you made was:

"....The second 0.035 spacer helped and now that the tire has been placed, the wobble demons are gone.. Mostly higher freeway speeds. I'll hit my test sweeper tomorrow. On smooth ground you cannot feel the motor vibrations through the frame so the additional spacer did not increase vibes.. The only concern that I have now is if the additional preload decreases the life of the donuts.."

Who knows for sure whether the .035" shim/spacer added to the right side was any benefit at all because you incorporated the very change you were avoiding the entire time, which was a tire replacement which was done at the very same time you added the second shim/spacer of .035" to the right side of the bike.  So realistically we don't know whether the shim really did anything at all except to introduce more compression to the spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts of which you answered affirmatively that at least no new vibration was added to the feel of the bike but as you stated the question at least was formulated in your mind as to whether the additional preload would decrease the life of the "donuts" (spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts).  The given fact is we all recognize that adding a new tire will change another element to the entire feel and cornering ability of any bike correcting the errors we are feeling to some degree. 

Speaking of the spacers (I keep saying spacers because the parts book defines them as spacers which is different for sure)/isolators/bushings/donuts (all are terms used through this thread as descriptions) towards the end of the THREAD you introduce a photo showing something Harley/Franco found when comparing an old Spacer/isolator/bushing/donut to a new one, so what we don't know is whether or not the old one was simply compressed through wear and time or whether the new spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts now are wider, I am assuming none of us will know this for sure unless someone has an old OEM NEW spacer/isolator/bushing/donut? 

I grasped that you did not want to simply introduce new spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts into the equation from the beginning because to do so would be approximately $70.00 of cost for two new ones vs a $2.00 shim/spacer if in fact over time the new spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts simply came back to a narrower width due to time and wear on the bike. 

Question #5   Which leads me to the discussion as to whether or not the mere fix is simply installing new spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts after so many years or miles?

Question #6  Or whether simply sticking with ones old spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts as long as they are not visually cracked and going with a metal shim/spacer is really the appropriate and most sensible option?

Both 77S-Glide and coastie56 thanked you for helping them to take out their "drunken camel" characteristics but we don't know exactly what they did....77S-Glide mentions putting in a .037" shim/spacer but he does not state whether that was because of the shim/spacer thickness he chose or whether that was due to the amount of axial run out he found upon measuring or even if he did any maeasuring?

We also do not officially know whether coastie56 measured his axial end play movement as well and then add the approrpriate width spacer/shim based upon run out or whether he simply chose to install a shim/spacer of .035" thickness on the left side or both sides or whether he chose to replace the spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts with new ones as well and had the results he thanked you for.

Question #7  Finally, so Max, it's been 9 months anything else to add to the end results? 

By now you might be towards the middle of that tire perhaps or perhaps you haven't really even ridden it that much to be able to add any more to this discussion.  You mentioned above that you would provide a riding reflection as to how it handled with two spacers/shims but you never did. 



As for my story line and why I have such interest in all of the R&D and reason for bringing this back to life, is that with my 2002 RKC, I am running OEM Road King spoked "mag" wheels, (got rid of the RKC spokes a long time ago) currently have 3,000 mile avon venums, OEM "original" front engine mount, OEM "original" spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts with 37,000 miles on the bike.  This bike has ALWAYS had oscillating, pogoing, wallowing movements in corners above 65 MPH, moving away from the spoke wheels to the RK mag wheels provided improvement several years ago, but it is stll going on, I just back off the throttle a little and keep going when it happens and don't do a death grip.....but I realize this is no solution actually.

So, 3 weeks ago before I actually really found this thread, I put a set of STIFFY's in with the old spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts, and my riding results have been the following:

I took the bike on I 70 from Denver up to Beaver Creek which is a pretty fast track to figure all of this out on, and while the highway is posted at 65 MPH and there are many sweeping curves on this interstate, I was trying to keep myself spaced from cars and was going up these hills between 75-85 and some times touching 90 mph per hour on the rarest of occasions and found myself sneaking peeks at my speedo to see that at some points I was at 80+ mph while in certain sweepers and found the bike pogoing much less of course, where as before I would find myself backing off more quickly knowing that I didn't like that pogoing or wallowing feel. IT was obvious that the "stiffy's were playing a significant role in helping to isolate the issues of my riding characteristics, so I would say the stiffys were a success in that realm, BUTTTTTTTTTT the vibration from those STIFFYS was and is HUGE and to me it's making the ride more about foot vibration than cornering with pogo's.

I am to the point of just taking out the STIFFY's and reevaluating the process again.  I mean IT's HORRIBLE!!!!!  I put my foot on my highway pegs and it's so miserable it causes a pain in your foot to just rest them there...the vibration is so severe.....

It's to the point I was on another 250 mile ride this past weekend, out to eastern colorado where you have straight roads like Dorothy and toto have in Kansas and it was miserable making my highway pegs rendered useless. 

So what to do.....

Question #8  Which brings me right back to a new set of isolators or going the route of a shim/spacer,  I am not sure I can figure out the method of using the dial indicators the way you did and coming up with an actual appropriate end play number with any success.  PanHeadRed knows it's takes all I could do to just check my run out appropriately on my engine, I can't imagine trying to figure out how to do what you did appropriately with any consistant results.....but in order to properly incorporate the methodology of a SHIM/SPACER one might have to be able to have the skill set of successfully checking the axial movement end play before even thinking about a shim/spacer application.  Or maybe just go with a .035" spacer/shim and throw the R&D out with the bath water....?

The other confusing part of course is that your 2002 RKC also only had .005" of axial movement end play.  Which shows you that all of this stuff is a moving target for sure.

Question #9  So I am wondering really what is the solution here:

New spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts
New front engine mount
stay with the old spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts and go with a .035" shim/spacer?   and to what thickness?

Did someone say give my MOUSE ANOTHER COOKIE??

LET THE DAMN THING BREATHE.....

Overall this was a good THREAD but there were some worthless posts

Regards,


"Classic"

[Admiral Akbar]

Alright so I have found this THREAD and have read through it a couple of times. 

Bringing it back from the dust......

I must say that there was some interesting information here but some of the R&D effort has not been completed so I have a few questions and perhaps we can fill in the blanks:

Obviously Max the story line begins with your bike handling like a drunken camel in a sand storm.  So given that you measured your axial movement for both your 2002 RKC (.005") and your 05 EG (.030") it shows that bikes can exist with different axial run out since the number on the EG was .030" of axial movement you decided to make a shim/spacer out of sheet stainless steel material that was close and at .035" in thickness. 

First it's not really a runout.. Run-out implies that something is round and spinning..

I understand the consistency of you leaving your worn out tire on the bike throughout your testing procedures as you were trying to take out the "drunken camel" even while having the worn out tire, knowing if you were successful with a bad tire things would only be wonderful with a good tire.

The biggest problem was that it took 2 tires to fix the probelm

Question#1:  What was the size of the outer diameter of the shim/spacer, do you have a number to provide to us?  I realize you drilled a 5/8" inner diameter hole for it to fit but what does the outer diameter need to be at? 

Don't remember but you could use 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inches. The main thing is that it is smaller than the donut OD and bigger than the inner bearing spacer OD..

Question #2:  After you put the .035" shim/spacer on the left side, why didn't you remeasure the axial end play again after you took the bike out for a couple of rides which would have allowed the bike to "settle in" again, to see if the axial endplay was completely taken out by the .035" shim/spacer or whether there was still some increase in the axial end play/run out?

I did and I got about the same as the RK

Question #3  I grasp your initial logic as to why you chose to quickly put another .035" shim/spacer on the right side of the bike while you were replacing the rear tire since the tire would be off of the bike giving you an easier approach to removing the swing arm shaft/axle and easily inserting the shim/spacer.  But why did you do add the .035" shim/spacer to the right side without first actually checking the end play with just the one shim/spacer on the left side as I mentioned above, you must have had a reason not obvious to me at least?

Just to see what it would do? Can you give me a message number.. Can't see where I added the second spacer but know I did.. I think that it was about part way though the E3 on the rear..

Question #4  Why did you assume that adding another .035" spacer was going to provide a additional improvement to the end play run out?  Obviously one thing that was going to happen for sure is that by adding the additional .035" shim/spacer to the stack would put the spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts in a more compressed state, but the question remains to what purpose did you choose to do this, without first checking to see if they were needed at all.  The only thing I can figure is that you did it to provide a "balance" to the stack, ie: added to left thus added to the right as well.  But my contention would be why not  pick material that was .018" to the left and then .018" to the right for such a balance. 

More compressed state.. See if it would stiffen things up..
You missed this comment..
"I only made one 0.035 shim.. As a result I had to shift my butt 0.0175 to the right to compensate.. "

Perhaps you had a reason for this but didn't offer it via the THREAD, as you simply added it, the interesting comment you made was:

"....The second 0.035 spacer helped and now that the tire has been placed, the wobble demons are gone.. Mostly higher freeway speeds. I'll hit my test sweeper tomorrow. On smooth ground you cannot feel the motor vibrations through the frame so the additional spacer did not increase vibes.. The only concern that I have now is if the additional preload decreases the life of the donuts.."

Who knows for sure whether the .035" shim/spacer added to the right side was any benefit at all because you incorporated the very change you were avoiding the entire time, which was a tire replacement which was done at the very same time you added the second shim/spacer of .035" to the right side of the bike.  So realistically we don't know whether the shim really did anything at all except to introduce more compression to the spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts of which you answered affirmatively that at least no new vibration was added to the feel of the bike but as you stated the question at least was formulated in your mind as to whether the additional preload would decrease the life of the "donuts" (spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts).  The given fact is we all recognize that adding a new tire will change another element to the entire feel and cornering ability of any bike correcting the errors we are feeling to some degree. 

Speaking of the spacers (I keep saying spacers because the parts book defines them as spacers which is different for sure)/isolators/bushings/donuts (all are terms used through this thread as descriptions) towards the end of the THREAD you introduce a photo showing something Harley/Franco found when comparing an old Spacer/isolator/bushing/donut to a new one, so what we don't know is whether or not the old one was simply compressed through wear and time or whether the new spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts now are wider,I am assuming none of us will know this for sure unless someone has an old OEM NEW spacer/isolator/bushing/donut? 

I grasped that you did not want to simply introduce new spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts into the equation from the beginning because to do so would be approximately $70.00 of cost for two new ones vs a $2.00 shim/spacer if in fact over time the new spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts simply came back to a narrower width due to time and wear on the bike. 

You missed the question number here.. You are right we don't know.. One could also think that it could be simple manufacturing tolerances..

Question #5   Which leads me to the discussion as to whether or not the mere fix is simply installing new spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts after so many years or miles?

That's the first thing you should do but since I only had about 14K on the bike total, they looked OK and there isn't a compression / size spec on the donuts, I figured they were good.. I could have run out and bought new ones then compared them I guess.. Shimming was cheaper..

Question #6  Or whether simply sticking with ones old spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts as long as they are not visually cracked and going with a metal shim/spacer is really the appropriate and most sensible option?

Was for me..

Both 77S-Glide and coastie56 thanked you for helping them to take out their "drunken camel" characteristics but we don't know exactly what they did....77S-Glide mentions putting in a .037" shim/spacer but he does not state whether that was because of the shim/spacer thickness he chose or whether that was due to the amount of axial play run out he found upon measuring or even if he did any maeasuring?

Maybe he just winged it and it worked?

We also do not officially know whether coastie56 measured his axial end play movement as well and then add the approrpriate width spacer/shim based upon run out or whether he simply chose to install a shim/spacer of .035" thickness on the left side or both sides or whether he chose to replace the spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts with new ones as well and had the results he thanked you for.

Question #7  Finally, so Max, it's been 9 months anything else to add to the end results? 

E3s suck as they wear out.. Commander IIs much better.

By now you might be towards the middle of that tire perhaps or perhaps you haven't really even ridden it that much to be able to add any more to this discussion.  You mentioned above that you would provide a riding reflection as to how it handled with two spacers/shims but you never did. 

Well, acutally wore out the E3s and repalced them with Commander IIs.. FWIW I also completely rebuilt the front end with new bushings and lighter springs.. The rebuild didn't help the handling with the E3s but it road a bunch smoother. 

As for my story line and why I have such interest in all of the R&D and reason for bringing this back to life, is that with my 2002 RKC, I am running OEM Road King spoked "mag" wheels, (got rid of the RKC spokes a long time ago) currently have 3,000 mile avon venums, OEM "original" front engine mount, OEM "original" spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts with 37,000 miles on the bike.  This bike has ALWAYS had oscillating, pogoing, wallowing movements in corners above 65 MPH, moving away from the spoke wheels to the RK mag wheels provided improvement several years ago, but it is stll going on, I just back off the throttle a little and keep going when it happens and don't do a death grip.....but I realize this is no solution actually.

So, 3 weeks ago before I actually really found this thread, I put a set of STIFFY's in with the old spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts, and my riding results have been the following:

I took the bike on I 70 from Denver up to Beaver Creek which is a pretty fast track to figure all of this out on, and while the highway is posted at 65 MPH and there are many sweeping curves on this interstate, I was trying to keep myself spaced from cars and was going up these hills between 75-85 and some times touching 90 mph per hour on the rarest of occasions and found myself sneaking peeks at my speedo to see that at some points I was at 80+ mph while in certain sweepers and found the bike pogoing much less of course, where as before I would find myself backing off more quickly knowing that I didn't like that pogoing or wallowing feel. IT was obvious that the "stiffy's were playing a significant role in helping to isolate the issues of my riding characteristics, so I would say the stiffys were a success in that realm, BUTTTTTTTTTT the vibration from those STIFFYS was and is HUGE and to me it's making the ride more about foot vibration than cornering with pogo's.

I am to the point of just taking out the STIFFY's and reevaluating the process again.  I mean IT's HORRIBLE!!!!!  I put my foot on my highway pegs and it's so miserable it causes a pain in your foot to just rest them there...the vibration is so severe.....

It's to the point I was on another 250 mile ride this past weekend, out to eastern colorado where you have straight roads like Dorothy and toto have in Kansas and it was miserable making my highway pegs rendered useless. 

So what to do.....

Not sure what STIFFY's are.. Are they something like Stabo?

Question #8  Which brings me right back to a new set of isolators or going the route of a shim/spacer,  I am not sure I can figure out the method of using the dial indicators the way you did and coming up with an actual appropriate end play number with any success.  PanHeadRed knows it's takes all I could do to just check my run out appropriately on my engine, I can't imagine trying to figure out how to do what you did appropriately with any consistant results.....but in order to properly incorporate the methodology of a SHIM/SPACER one might have to be able to have the skill set of successfully checking the axial movement end play before even thinking about a shim/spacer application.  Or maybe just go with a .035" spacer/shim and throw the R&D out with the bath water....?

The first thing you should do is make sure that the components you have are in good condition, rubbers mounts links. Steering bearings snug and smooth.

The other confusing part of course is that your 2002 RKC also only had .005" of axial movement end play.  Which shows you that all of this stuff is a moving target for sure.

I suspect that the quality control that sets the preload on the donuts is poor. There is about 10 to 15 items that can controll the spacing that sets the preload. On of the reasons I advocate the dial indicator.

Question #9  So I am wondering really what is the solution here:

New spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts
New front engine mount
stay with the old spacers/isolators/bushings/donuts and go with a .035" shim/spacer?   and to what thickness?

You can do this but I don't put much value in replacing the front mount as an solution unless it looks bad..

Here is what I'd do..

1. inspect the front mounts and linkage. Make sure that the link is tight.
2. Check the top link and donuts.. at 37k you can replace em but may be wasting money.. If they look good you can try preload but I'd really figure out how to use a dial indicator.  I suspect that too much preload can damage the donut. I don't know what that preload is so it's better to know what you got then guess.
2.5 check steering bearings / fall away.. Playing with the preload may find you a sweet spot..
3. perform and alignment on the motorcycle. Glide pro website has some ideas one how to do it..
4. Stiffer wheels are good. Stock wires suck.. One of the first things I did to my 02 RK classic was replace the stock wires with Street-glide wheels. If you are still running the stock suspension I'd work the front and rear over.. I'm sure that some of the pogoing you are experiencing is from poor damping front and rear and mushy springs up front. The second things I did to the RKC were to add Racetech emulators, springs and played with the rear shocks.. I could never get the stock rears to work well changing oil  so I swapped em for 440s..  Not sure 440s were the best but they were low mileage, used and cheap.. They work pretty well.

Did someone say give my MOUSE ANOTHER COOKIE??

LET THE DAMN THING BREATHE.....

Overall this was a good THREAD but there were some worthless posts

Regards,


"Classic"

Sometime I howl at the noon..
There are always worthless posts.. Some of them are probably mine..

Max

[ClassicRider2002]

Question #3  I grasp your initial logic as to why you chose to quickly put another .035" shim/spacer on the right side of the bike while you were replacing the rear tire since the tire would be off of the bike giving you an easier approach to removing the swing arm shaft/axle and easily inserting the shim/spacer.  But why did you do add the .035" shim/spacer to the right side without first actually checking the end play with just the one shim/spacer on the left side as I mentioned above, you must have had a reason not obvious to me at least?

Can you give me a message number.. Can't see where I added the second spacer but know I did.. I think that it was about part way though the E3 on the rear..

Yes, here are the QUOTES and MESSAGE numbers for your reference, the 1st one:

Re: Does your bagger handle like a drunken camel in a sand storm?
Reply #152 on: Friday, March 11, 2011. 09:27:30 PM.

Well I checked the side to side with the glide pro...

Got 0.040..  Got a feeling I was being to nice when I said it handled the same as before..    Probably handled a little worse. I thought it was the tire going bad..



O.040 is then the 0.030  that what I started with on the Electra Float... 

Enough this BS... IMO it don't work.. Yanked the glide pro stiff and it's going back.  I tossed another shim onto the swingarm shaft (got one both sides) and got less then 6 thou..

I checked the alignment and it's right on.. couldn't be better..

Tire is still the POS D402 we'll see if shimming helps..

The problem with the Glide Pro is that it doesn't do anything to correct axial play at the swing arm pivot.. The polyurethane does not have any plates like the stock donuts to limit ooze-out (technical term  )

Here is a pick of the glide pro system.



IMO They screwed up when they dumped the stock donuts.. This is the new improved    unit..

Max

And the 2nd one:

Re: Does your bagger handle like a drunken camel in a sand storm?
Reply #175 on: Monday, March 14, 2011. 01:40:42 PM.

The second 0.035 spacer helped and now that the tire has been placed, the wobble demons are gone.. Mostly higher freeway speeds. I'll hit my test sweeper tomorrow. On smooth ground you cannot feel the motor vibrations through the frame so the additional spacer did not increase vibes.. The only concern that I have now is if the additional preload decreases the life of the donuts..

Max

Not sure what STIFFY's are.. Are they something like Stabo?


Rivera Primo stiffy.mov

Here is what I'd do..

1. inspect the front mounts and linkage. Make sure that the link is tight.
2. Check the top link and donuts.. at 37k you can replace em but may be wasting money.. If they look good you can try preload but I'd really figure out how to use a dial indicator.  I suspect that too much preload can damage the donut. I don't know what that preload is so it's better to know what you got then guess.
2.5 check steering bearings / fall away.. Playing with the preload may find you a sweet spot..
3. perform and alignment on the motorcycle. Glide pro website has some ideas one how to do it..
4. Stiffer wheels are good. Stock wires suck.. One of the first things I did to my 02 RK classic was replace the stock wires with Street-glide wheels. If you are still running the stock suspension I'd work the front and rear over.. I'm sure that some of the pogoing you are experiencing is from poor damping front and rear and mushy springs up front. The second things I did to the RKC were to add Racetech emulators, springs and played with the rear shocks.. I could never get the stock rears to work well changing oil  so I swapped em for 440s..  Not sure 440s were the best but they were low mileage, used and cheap.. They work pretty well.

I should have mentioned I have been through my front end on the 2002 RKC 5 years ago with the race tech emulators and RT springs, and 20W Fork Oil, set up professionally, but hit a pot hole and dented front fender.  Fixed Fender and Repainted.

Next changed the springs to Progressive Springs with proper preload, and left the race tech emulators installed with 20W Fork Oil and also dented front fender again upon hitting pot hole in road.  currently in the process of putting different fender on after it is painted without bondo...



Solution to this might be quit hitting pot holes.....but what are you going to do, I am not sold on the RACE TECH EMULATORS.....I know, I know, become more proficient at seeing the road.....

Now I am considering the Progessive mono cartridge fork set up for the front end.  So the front end is being addressed once again.  "MAYBE" the design of the cartridged gas system by progressive is the better idea ? ? ?

I am currently running the Progressive 440's in the rear (12" with normal coil/spring set up) and have been for several years now.

Thank you for your input......        

Pondering options.....wanting to rid myself of the buzzzzzzz! and pogoing! and oscillating......

Upon finding the references you asked for above it does appear that you did actually check the axial end play after installing the second .035" shim/spacer as you mention your end play being .006".

So why would the end play which started out initially at .030" for you be at .006" axial end play, after you had already first addressed the axial end play and added the first shim/spacer on the left which was at .035" and then after adding another .035" shim/spacer on the right side end up with .006" axial end play, am I missing the math here ? ? ? ?

Regards,

"Classic"

[Deye76]

Check your wheel bearings too.

[Admiral Akbar]

Question #3  I grasp your initial logic as to why you chose to quickly put another .035" shim/spacer on the right side of the bike while you were replacing the rear tire since the tire would be off of the bike giving you an easier approach to removing the swing arm shaft/axle and easily inserting the shim/spacer.

Thanks for the  message number.
I didn't do while I was replacing the tire.. I did it when I pulled out the glidepro..

Upon finding the references you asked for above it does appear that you did actually check the axial end play after installing the second .035" shim/spacer as you mention your end play being .006".

So why would the end play which started out initially at .030" for you be at .006" axial end play, after you had already first addressed the axial end play and added the first shim/spacer on the left which was at .035" and then after adding another .035" shim/spacer on the right side end up with .006" axial end play, am I missing the math here ? ? ? ?

The problem is that you are trying to apply math to this setup at 2 points in time,.. Early on, I mention that I didn't like the later end caps as they don't support the bushings like the old ones.. They can dig into the donuts.. With time they can loosen.. This depends on how much extra rubber was molded onto the donut. It also possible that the donuts I have compressed some..

Stiffys are steel Stabos.. It's interesting that on the Stiffy, one needs to add a washer to the Stiffy on the 07s / 08s, where earlier ones don't need it.. If adding the Stiffy helped the problem then the spacers should also.. with less vibes.

It's good to know what you've done already to the bike.. I doubt that going to progressive cartridges will help that much as long as the Racetecs a functioning properly.  Did you lower the front end?

What handle bars are you running? Seat change? The wobble can be rider induced.

Again alignment will amplify wobbles.

See if you can find some stock length shocks to try..

Max

[06roadglide]

IMHO...I think stock setup works just fine. Obviously if you have worn out parts then thats a problem but this little bit of axial movement being measured in this thread isn't, IMHO, what's causing the wobble.  The wobble is the nature of the beast form the reversed triple trees.  If the rear was the problem with these bikes then the FXR's would have the same issue but the only time you hear of handling with an FXR is when someone is praising it.

[sfmichael]

Hmmm....this thread is somewhat exhausting. Somewhere along the way I get lost, and it doesn't help that I don't fully understand some of the descriptions because I've never taken one apart.
But I recently purchased an '02 Road King and it's handling is not confidence inspiring and it does seem to wallow from time to time. Don't have much to compare it to, it's only my third Harley, and I bought the other 2 brand new. This one has 38K miles and it's my first FL series. Love the bike but the handling makes me nervous in anything but slow maneuvers, and yes, I realize it's a Harley and am not expecting it to handle like a GSXR.
Wondering where to start, was considering the Glide Pro but it seemed way overpriced for what it is, and I was thinking maybe I should replace the stock swingarm bushings as a start - but that was just an educated guess. That was before I read this thread.
Thoughts and/or advice??? 

[Eglider05]

Thoughts and/or advice???

All I can say is I put a Bagger Brace on my 05 Glide 3 years ago and it will never come off. Of all the money I've spent on the bike that was probably the best investment.
Rick

[Bagger]

Hmmm....this thread is somewhat exhausting. Somewhere along the way I get lost, and it doesn't help that I don't fully understand some of the descriptions because I've never taken one apart.
But I recently purchased an '02 Road King and it's handling is not confidence inspiring and it does seem to wallow from time to time. Don't have much to compare it to, it's only my third Harley, and I bought the other 2 brand new. This one has 38K miles and it's my first FL series. Love the bike but the handling makes me nervous in anything but slow maneuvers, and yes, I realize it's a Harley and am not expecting it to handle like a GSXR.
Wondering where to start, was considering the Glide Pro but it seemed way overpriced for what it is, and I was thinking maybe I should replace the stock swingarm bushings as a start - but that was just an educated guess. That was before I read this thread.
Thoughts and/or advice???

IMHO, begin with basic bike servicing. Replace the swing-arm isolators with the upgraded thicker isolator.  And loosen your front motor mount and inspect for tears, or cracks.
http://www.moccsplace.com/images/mount/mount.htm

From our 2002 parts book the swing-arm isolator/spacer is part # is 47564-86A
The upgraded part # is 47564-86B

[Admiral Akbar]

But I recently purchased an '02 Road King and it's handling is not confidence inspiring and it does seem to wallow from time to time.

All the standard questions apply. You need to verify that the bike is mechanically up to snuff.  New rubbers at that mileage is probably a good thing.. Stock suspension leaves a bunch to be desired..

Max