Question on Heads???

[Deye76]

Probably giving the customer what they want. After all "the customer is always right" . 

[Admiral Akbar]

Probably giving the customer what they want. After all "the customer is always right" . 

Not when it comes to Red..    Max

[Bagger]

Probably giving the customer what they want. After all "the customer is always right" . 

Yep, what the customer wants; stock size or larger exhaust valve depending on the build.

[aharp]

I'm with Don. We do the guides, valves, seals, and springs (as needed). IMO, you can't put a price on a properly fit valve train. Added flow from the tapered guides is minimal (compared to other port mods) but being able to control the valve to guide fit is critical. A quiet top end and the oil control that comes with properly fit components is more than just a small added benefit.

[troop]

I'm with cling and autoworker, I think that a good head porter can make stock heads outperform out of the box heads.  I think you would be best served asking a few head porters what they might recommend based on your budget and goals, and decide from that info on which way you think aligns with those goals.  Each porter has their own technique and style, so each might give you a different take on what they think would be best to do based on what you are trying to accomplish.  Some like port and polish, some prefer larger valves, some prefer....etc.

I'm finding this out to be very true! I proposed my build (2009 96"/SE204/SE 1.725/.030) to several porters and have been told bigger valves, stock valves, no porting, mild porting, wild porting, etc. The main consistent thing was CC'ing. But then again, prices also ranged from $235 > $900. I have narrowed it down but am still always reading...... 

[Scurvy]

I have a 2010 Streetglide with an S&S 106,

So you are already at 106"? You will want to talk to your head porter about options for keeping your compression manageable. Dan Baisley gave me excellent advice and did the heads for my 107".

[prodrag1320]

bagger,you left us off your spreadsheet,we`re listed on the HHT "head porters" post
WWW.VEETWINPERFORMANCE.COM

[Barrett]

I'm finding this out to be very true! I proposed my build (2009 96"/SE204/SE 1.725/.030) to several porters and have been told bigger valves, stock valves, no porting, mild porting, wild porting, etc. The main consistent thing was CC'ing. But then again, prices also ranged from $235 > $900. I have narrowed it down but am still always reading...... 
[/quote] I've been told my 37's were too big from some and not big enough for porting from others, so I know where you're coming from. My heads cc'd at 85.8/86 and it's running great with the .030HG and 1.725's, I'm advancing my cams +4 to see how I'll like the earlier intake close and it would put me at 9.2 corrected, it would pretty much be the same as your build and I'm liking what I'm feeling so far, the sprocket should be here soon so I'll give you an update.

[troop]

I'm finding this out to be very true! I proposed my build (2009 96"/SE204/SE 1.725/.030) to several porters and have been told bigger valves, stock valves, no porting, mild porting, wild porting, etc. The main consistent thing was CC'ing. But then again, prices also ranged from $235 > $900. I have narrowed it down but am still always reading...... 

I've been told my 37's were too big from some and not big enough for porting from others, so I know where you're coming from. My heads cc'd at 85.8/86 and it's running great with the .030HG and 1.725's, I'm advancing my cams +4 to see how I'll like the earlier intake close and it would put me at 9.2 corrected, it would pretty much be the same as your build and I'm liking what I'm feeling so far, the sprocket should be here soon so I'll give you an update.
[/quote]

Nice.. Thanks !!

[prodrag1320]

no cams are "too big or too small" for ported heads,with the 37`s,we like 1.900/1.625 heads with moderate compresion,works very well for a milder build

[Bagger]

bagger,you left us off your spreadsheet,we`re listed on the HHT "head porters" post
WWW.VEETWINPERFORMANCE.COM

Ok, you are now on the list. 

And here is the HTT link, it's grown since my first compilation in 2006
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=15.0

[Sonny S.]

no cams are "too big or too small" for ported heads,with the 37`s,we like 1.900/1.625 heads with moderate compresion,works very well for a milder build

just curious....have any dyno sheets with those heads on a 95" TW37 build ?

[mayor]

And here is the HTT link, it's grown since my first compilation in 2006
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=15.0

I modified the title to credit you for the list.    I knew it was from the old site, but couldn't remember who created it. 

[Bagger]

And here is the HTT link, it's grown since my first compilation in 2006
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=15.0

I modified the title to credit you for the list.    I knew it was from the old site, but couldn't remember who created it.

Do I get free points or stamps to redeem 

[prodrag1320]

no cams are "too big or too small" for ported heads,with the 37`s,we like 1.900/1.625 heads with moderate compresion,works very well for a milder build

just curious....have any dyno sheets with those heads on a 95" TW37 build ?

im out of town till 12/7,post some when i get home(thanks bagger for the updated list)

[Sonny S.]

Kirby 

[BVHOG]

$699 at BigBoyz? since when?    Get your heads done, set up the 54H for 10 to1 and get a better pipe than the Pro Pipe. (Bassani Road Rage, Fatcat, ST Supermeg) And I agree with Don, look into getting your cylinders bored and by all means pay attention to the tune and ignore the numbers.

Big Boyz advertises $299, but it's really À la carte, $299 sounds like an inviting price initially.

Why not have a head reworked with new valves, valve guides, springs, retainers and keepers, who wants their old parts reinstalled, just saying...  [/font][/color]

$299 Port heads (reuse your old valves and springs)
$25   cc heads
$70   Mill heads
$       Replace valve guides
$      1.9" intake valve
$       New exhaust valve
$       New springs / retainers / keepers

Ok, we are talking about a relatively mild cam here, why replace stock low mileage guides?, why replace stock springs and retainers when they are still very serviceable items running well within spec? Money to burn? Have them install the 1.9's? hardly worth it IMHO. These are entry level heads any way you look at it.  The things you mentioned are not necessary for the average street rider at this level of build, I would rather use the basic port job and use the extra money on the bottom end.
I am sure the porter you mentioned does flawless work as well but I am just not into needlessly replacing part$.

[se]

when comparing head porters compare them to the quality of work that they do.
a 299 dollar job is just that a cheap job.
when you start getting into cnc and street ports and replacing parts the cost goes up. true some parts may be needless. but not many.
the rule of thumb is if its off the bike have it done correctly a needless part can soon be the weakest link and have seen far too many cheap heads come apart a few miles later and now a cheap job becoms an expensive fix,
quality costs
compare apples to apples not pintos to porsches

[Bagger]

Ok, we are talking about a relatively mild cam here, why replace stock low mileage guides?, why replace stock springs and retainers when they are still very serviceable items running well within spec? Money to burn? Have them install the 1.9's? hardly worth it IMHO. These are entry level heads any way you look at it.  The things you mentioned are not necessary for the average street rider at this level of build, I would rather use the basic port job and use the extra money on the bottom end.
I am sure the porter you mentioned does flawless work as well but I am just not into needlessly replacing part$.

It might be one thing if the stock heads are very low mileage,
but really, are their folks with stock heads that have 50,000 or 60,000  or more miles on them, that'll just rebuild with
the same worn high mileage parts - wow.... 

And who is going to only pay $300 and not pay the additional $100 for cc'ing and milling to equalize the chambers or achieve the desired compression ratio - now your at $400?  What if they are high mileage heads,  ching, ching for new parts?  My experience with three sets of pre 2005 heads have been that they all were 87-89 cc's, not the 85cc Harley states in my 2002 service manual.

[Barrett]

when comparing head porters compare them to the quality of work that they do.
a 299 dollar job is just that a cheap job.
when you start getting into cnc and street ports and replacing parts the cost goes up. true some parts may be needless. but not many.
the rule of thumb is if its off the bike have it done correctly a needless part can soon be the weakest link and have seen far too many cheap heads come apart a few miles later and now a cheap job becoms an expensive fix,
quality costs 
compare apples to apples not pintos to porsches

My Pinto is a Pangra, it worked for me.

[prodrag1320]

giudes are replaced(in our heads anyway),to conture the port & reconture the guide boss itself.while some do have head packages for around 299.00(that pretty much concentrate on the bowl & valve job itself)all of our fully ported heads(as well as most decent porters)will remove the guides to properly work the port itself)you get what you pay for

[Don D]

Barrett
Sorry OT
Nobody knows about those Pangras.
My Pinto back in the day was a Pangra ( and Porsche) killer. I ran it on Galpin Fords dyno and they shut it down at 5K (was good to 8,500) when I topped their Spearco Turbo Pangra. They said they didn't want to hurt my motor, What a joke. On another dyno Geraghty it made 195 rwhp, NA, with twin 45 DCOE. Would run 13.75 in street trim and pull more than 1g skidpad. Ugly as sin ride hard as hell and tools in the trunk

[Barrett]

I bet that Pangra was fun. I paid $3,000 for porting on my LS1 heads and I do understand that you get what you pay for but I wasn't ready to go to that level yet with my FXDF, the larger valves needed the brows cut and I didn't want to go with larger pistons til my crank was done so I was just going to do the .030HG for a compression bump but when I saw how the heads looked I decided to have them cleaned up and keep the stock valves/springs for now. It did turn out real good for me and with what little I have in my bike it kicks butt. I am still learning HD's and my next plan is 3.885/1700cc Wiseco's and either a Wood TW5-6, TW7 or TW6H, then I'll be ready to spend the money on my heads. I also have a 40HP dry shot from my ZX12R that I'll probably be using.

[strokerjlk]

Ok, we are talking about a relatively mild cam here, why replace stock low mileage guides?, why replace stock springs and retainers when they are still very serviceable items running well within spec? Money to burn? Have them install the 1.9's? hardly worth it IMHO. These are entry level heads any way you look at it.  The things you mentioned are not necessary for the average street rider at this level of build, I would rather use the basic port job and use the extra money on the bottom end.
I am sure the porter you mentioned does flawless work as well but I am just not into needlessly replacing part$.

It might be one thing if the stock heads are very low mileage,
but really, are their folks with stock heads that have 50,000 or 60,000  or more miles on them, that'll just rebuild with
the same worn high mileage parts - wow.... 

And who is going to just $300 and not pay the additional $100 for cc'ing and milling to equalize the chambers or achieve the desired compression ratio - now your at $400?  What if they are high mileage heads,  ching, ching for new parts?  My experience with three sets of pre 2005 heads have been that they all were 87-89 cc's, not the 85cc Harley states in my 2002 service manual.

50,000-60,000 is high mileage? only on certain forums. the problem isn't reusing 50-60,000 mile parts,the problem is the guys that make money installing new parts telling you it's high mileage. I remember when we didnt install new valves until they couldn't be ground anymore.
of course I have ran .080 piston in one hole and .020 over in the other. things used to be a lot simpler. I see your point though it adds up fast,when you start replacing everything.

[Admiral Akbar]

50,000-60,000 is high mileage? only on certain forums. the problem isn't reusing 50-60,000 mile parts,the problem is the guys that make money installing new parts telling you it's high mileage.

The only way to tell if it's serviceable is to measure the check against the spec.. You may be dating yourself on the regrinding valves.. That has pretty much gone to tossing them unless they clean up with a light touch. Any more and we used to give them back to the customer showing the pits..  Newer valves have hardened faces that you can grind through and you'll be lucky to get 5 to 10 before you need another valve job.

Hardened valve faces has pretty much been the way to go since unleaded gas but motors that spun higher RPM were doing that way before unleaded was mandatory..

Also some of the valve ends are probably shot by 60K.. You could put it back together that way I guess..

It's judgment call on valves. I'll replace 1 bad, 2 if they are the same but will go all new for anything above..  Same with guides..

At 50 -60 K it's trying to judge how far you want the motor to go before you need to pull it down again..

Max