crankshafts

[barny7655]

What a suck i am, had three new ones HD, but being a mechanic ive ironed out, as all of us here have as to what to do so it preforms, but alass what does it cost , bloody money,whats wrong with me lol , one piece crank,over head belt driven cams,4 valve heads,is that to come, well barny, stop dreaming its a long way off ,but i love my deuce, and all the other HDs ive had, would be nice if HD read into this site, as to renew there ideas, HD stop thinking of the price, but we are the ones to pay the end cost,bring out a proven product,warrent it all, not the BS we have to endure as to add ons, that dont have any thing to do with the defect  when we bring it in for a claim, any ways ,ive had a normal run ,hope it does get better, and the share holders in HD sit back and seek more info as to a long haul , not the short term , my 2 cents, love this site Barny

[Big Dan]

There was a time when Harley-Davidson was struggling. The newly imported bikes were kicking their ass quality-wise (you cannot know how much it pains me to actually put that in words) as well as in price. In an effort to save the company, they sold out, literally and figuratively, to AMF. AMF was a huge and successful outfit that did business as many businesses do. They cut costs wherever possible and raised profit margins. As the quality of the bikes fell, sales fell, and more cost-cutting measures were taken. Quality got even worse, sales fell further, and more costs were cut. A vicious circle ensued, that brought this once proud American icon to the very brink of existence.

During those years, if you happened to meet someone new, and in the course of conversation you asked them where they worked, those that worked for H-D would literally hang their head and say something like "I work for Harley-Davidson- but hey, at least it pays the bills." There was no pride in that company anywhere. A great source of pride for Milwaukee and all of Wisconsin had become a laughingstock. 

A group of employees, most notable among them Willie G. Davidson, set the wheels in motion to buy the company back. When they did, H-D had some major projects in the works. One was the "Nova" project, which later became Yamaha's mighty V-Max, and the other(s) were the Evolution engine and the Softail frame. They had enough resources to go one way or the other, but not both. As we know, they chose the latter, and it worked out well- for a while.

Quality was way up and sales started to improve. As time went on, sales continued to rise, further quality improvements were made, and pride started to come back to H-D. In the 90's, the economy was great, you no longer were perceived as an idiot if you bought a Harley-Davidson, and the big boom was on. Few know this, but the MoCo came down hard on dealers that were price gouging during the boom. They recognized this as bad business and took measures to stop it. They were building better and better bikes each year, selling all they could build and then some, and the money was pouring in like crazy. There was no need, or any desire, to go back to the way things were under AMF.

As we know, things changed. The economy took a hit, and somewhere along the line, the MoCo's thinking changed. They had become a huge corporate entity once again and started to act like it. Profits fell, but they were still making money. I remember one quarter specifically where H-D claimed they were losing money. It came to light that in that quarter they had actually made 11 million dollars, but because they had made 63 million in the same quarter of the previous year, their claim was that they'd lost 52 million dollars. Wait... what?

In an effort to maximize profits, costs have been repeatedly slashed, and quality has suffered greatly; that, coupled with a tenuous economy, has slowed sales even further. More cuts, less quality, less sales. It's the same vicious circle all over again. It's eerily similar to the AMF days. Control of the company has even been given to "successful businessmen" again, many of whom have never even ridden a motorcycle. Yes, they're maximizing profits for the shareholders in the short term, but at what cost long term? This strategy has already proven disastrous for many companies, and for Harley-Davidson itself not so very long ago. And while this is going on right before our very eyes, many among us say this is "good business" and "very smart." Good luck with that.

[wurk_truk]

 

Think cigarettes.  20 years ago, Big Tobacco fought every suit and law out tooth and nail.  High Drama!!!  Now-a-days... Big Tobacco doesn't spend a dime for legal fees in the US.  ANY law is fine by them.

Why?

A BILLION Chinese are simply waiting to smoke Marlboro is why.  The world is a BIG place and the brand we love is caving in.

My crank twisted on a STOCK 2009 bike to .008.  I replaced it with my own $$$.  Sigh..........................

[wfolarry]

Big Dan good post.  100%

[deathwish]

rockwell the HD wheels and you know a good part of the story. Soft. No longer balance wheels. No rebuildable bushed lower rods or top wrist pin. Removed the double row timkin after 2002. Reshaped the top rod eye so it could walk more after to many failures from side to side crank walk after  the double row was removed. Yep the cranks are junk and considered throw away. Pressed cranks aren't the answer in the V Twin application but that is what we have. If you need a new crank don't go to HD, there is another company that builds a better crank.

[Sonny S.]

Anyone using the 5pc from R&R ?

[R.Bingham]

Hoban is a respected crankshaft repair company. They weld, true, replace the pin with a slightly OS pin (more press) and install a plug. They guarantee what they sell. They also are very proud to offer brand new CVO and 96" cranks that have this rework and guarantee them. They also replace the rods with much more robust units.

When I googled Hoban it said that Darkhorse is a division of Hoban brothers. Is this the same company that you are talking about?

[Admiral Akbar]

Anyone using the 5pc from R&R ?

So did you take a part a set just to show us?

Max

[ThumperDeuce]

I used the R&R wheel set in my 120 build.  I bought into the claim that it could be balanced and run smoothly in a "B" engine without the balancers.  The initial break in was done on the dyno and by the time it hit the road the wheels had shifted and the vibration was so bad as to damage my engine fairings, tach and probably the speedometer.  Reggie refused to rebalance the wheels and press a pinion gear for the balancers so I now have a S&S wheel set in place lightened, balanced, plugged and welded by Darkhorse.  I personally do not recommend the R&R wheel set.  If I was going to be cynical about the experience I guess that I would say that it is a good thing that they are designed to be rebuildable.

[d1hojo07]

I went through 3, yes 3 rnr cranks. first one pinched, second one pinched, third one-------shifted. Now I have a darkhorse crank but still fighting gremlins from the first build.

[Sonny S.]

Yes Max I did..... 
but I think I'll be leaving it out 


nope..ain't got one...whew

[04 SE Deuce]

   Remove and Replace?

[slik rik]

   Remove and Replace?

oh thats got to hurt

[Azgunner]

Oh yeah, R&R the company people love to bash. I've got 5500 miles on a 5pc. crank & no problems that I'm aware of, now the Axtell cylinders, that's another story. Lots & lots of other successful builds out there with the R&R cranks too.

You rarely here about the success rates of a product, but the failures get lots of press, especially on the internet forums.

[aharp]

   Remove and Replace?

[drhooligan]

Does the balancing aspect of the crank work make any noticeable difference?

[peckerwood]

so what ya all is saying, i shouldn't wast my time and money on my 09 cvo streetglide, that i was gonna try to get 115/115 build done , looks like i'm gonna have problems if  i do

[aharp]

so what ya all is saying, i shouldn't wast my time and money on my 09 cvo streetglide, that i was gonna try to get 115/115 build done , looks like i'm gonna have problems if  i do

Yes, I would waste my time and money. 115/115 can be an accident with the right components.

[Big Dan]

You rarely here about the success rates of a product, but the failures get lots of press, especially on the internet forums.

Ain't that the truth. Don't really know much about R&R cranks, but that statement holds true universally.

[oldguy]

You hear about the 5 pc crank failures when installed in a single timken application, but does anyone know of how many failures occured when the crank is installed in R&R's factory built billet motor's??

[Tsani]

You rarely here about the success rates of a product, but the failures get lots of press, especially on the internet forums.

How true.

[ThumperDeuce]

I've always tried to accurately report my experiences with aftermarket parts both positive and negative.  Sonny asked if anyone had experience using R&R wheelsets I told what happened.  When a product does not perform as advertised ( and ends up costing you $4k to correct ) it does not make you very happy about doing business with the company.

[peckerwood]

what your saying then is just save my money , cause i was going get heads, cams, pistons, d d pipe, tts, ect.

[Sonny S.]

>>Sonny asked if anyone had experience using R&R wheelsets <<

yup 
All positive experiences feel free to speak up

[Admiral Akbar]

I've always tried to accurately report my experiences with aftermarket parts both positive and negative.  Sonny asked if anyone had experience using R&R wheelsets I told what happened.  When a product does not perform as advertised ( and ends up costing you $4k to correct ) it does not make you very happy about doing business with the company.

I guess we can sit here and bash HD and everyone is OK with that (I'm not) but bashing RnR is not OK...



Anyway, not one is 100% perfect.. I think that how the customer is treated after the issue is important..

Now as far as HD goes, I would would suspect they tried to make an improvement to cut costs without sacrificing reliability but end up screwing the pooch..      Prototypes worked well. Production, not so much..

I guess Charlie should acclimate the warranty adjuster to the fix..say "While this could be from abuse, I feel that there are some production quality issues with Stock HD crankshafts. You need to be ready to accept the warranty work and should adjust your warranty premiums accordingly.. "

Max