crankshafts

[Tsani]

Not sayin it's wrong to bash HD if their wrong. But really, how often does anyone shout about something if it's good around here? Or how often is it told that the complainer used the product 100 times with one failure? Not very accurate at all. Just the squeaky wheel effect in action. I do realize that is pretty much the way these sites go tho. As for the flywheels, compared to how many were built, how many failed? Not saying they could not have built a better, more solid  assembly. But as we all know, everyone riding a Harley is an expert rider/mechanic and never uses the bike beyond the manufacturers intended use.


Right. Trust me, I don't buy into either, which is why I am always looking for ways to improve my bike. But then you could give me the the so called most well engineered bike in the world and I still would want to make it better if I could.Nothing man made is perfect. If man made it, man can break it.

And one thing that maybe a lot do not realize, is these newer bikes are not over engineered like the the old bikes were. The new ones are now built to just what will get the job done. Just like every other mass produced product today.I will bet that The Moco never intended for the customer to change the engines like we do, with out using their special performance parts of course!

[04 SE Deuce]

  Any company that has a .012 crank run out tolerance on new motorcycles with a median price of 20K or higher,  deserves some internet negativity.  I would expect better tolerances than that on a run of the mill lawn mower/tractor.  I'm sure there are members here on HTT that could enlighten as to the reality of crank/quality issues,  it just doesn't behoove them to.  Members that work in dealerships or in the industry who are involved to some capacity or have knowledge.  Being positive and overlooking things in life has it's merit.  But putting your head in the sand and not realizing that your butt is standing proud could compromise one in life.  My previous post was motivated by past experience in a family owned dealership and first hand knowledge of how arrogantly stubborn Harley was to work with considering the numerous quality control issues they had at the time. I'm sure that has caused me to have both insight and prejudice.  I think H-D has more than their deserved share of brand loyalty. Heck I can't think of another M/C brand that is worn clothing or tattoo wise on more bodies around the world. I don't believe the new bike buyer should have to overlook Harley's little cheap/high tolerance crank secret.  For the price of a new Harley one would expect better quality.  Rick

[ejk_dyna]

<<I guess we can sit here and bash HD and everyone is OK with that (I'm not) but bashing RnR is not OK...>>

That's always the way it is with R&R. 

With their cranks I will say that there are several (I can think of at least 6) guys who have had major problems with this crank.  I think that is a fairly significant numner of failures for a relatively low volume piece.

   

[StrokerDave]

(I can think of at least 6) guys who have had major problems with this crank.  I think that is a fairly significant numner of failures for a relatively low volume piece.

[joelp34252]

The Harley's as produced today are some of the best bikes they have ever made. If you do not f*** with them they will nearly all go 50,000 miles and most will go 100,000 with minimal maintenance. With a 45 degree v twin you could easily run .050 out on your crank and never know the difference. The thing will still run forever. They are not built to aircraft specs because they don't need to be. That is the way it has  been with Harley, and I don't see any radical changes in the near future.

Joel 2001 FLHT

[11.7to1]

If you're seeing multiple crank failures with the same engine, then you need to start looking at the cases. Just my opinion, but if you are sending a crank out for truing, then they should also get the cases to ensure each half is checked/corrected to ensure the bearing bores have the same axis.

[04 SE Deuce]

joelp34252,  .005 might be feasible with the rest of your post.  .050 no way,  oil pump failure for one.  Tattoo?  Rick

[kingvvk]

My HD dealership just went out of business. I knew the owner very well for over 20 years and it was a successful dealership. I asked the owner why he was going out of business and he said he could no longer deal with how Harley Davidson dealt with there dealers and customers. He said HD no longer has any loyalty to there dealers or to customer service. He said trying to get HD to make good on a warranty claim was next to impossible ( it was always customer abuse) in there eyes and he was being forced to buy more bikes than he could sell or lose his dealership. He said they were strong arming him into bankruptcy forcing bikes on him or else. He said it had nothing to do with the economy because he was still making a profit for his business but not enough in the eyes of Harley Davidson. They told him to sell more bikes or else and he told them see you later.

[HD/Wrench]

producing a product for less money is not only in the HD world..  look any of the auto companys here...  Lost a fuel pump in the Tahoe, dealer wanted a arm and aleg for the pump as it is aone complete set up now. You can buy after market that may or may not fit, warranty sure but the hassle is having the vehicle stop running and the tow bill more labor etc. Then if you have a shop do it whos to pay.. no different on our end. You buy a product that is said to be the best you mic it it is spot on. Customer runs the engine and the next thing you know you have oil use, piston slap etc...  but that is the age old deal where the small shop gets left holding the bag... A bit of a rant but the truth...  the more things change the more they stay the same...

HD crank that goes south nothing new there..

[wurk_truk]

I, for one, do NOT feel the welding of a crank is a FRANKENSTEIN fix.  For now.... it is the ONLY fix available.

One does NOT need to balance and have a timken for a good running engine for over 100/100, but one DOES need the crank to stay stable.

It is what it is.  Mine shifted, on a Stage 2 bike, at 18k.  09SG. And..... I'm older than dirt, too.

I had Randy and R&R weld, balance, and H Beam a crank for me with a Timken.  Bit of extreme overkill, but it IS one less worry.

[HD/Wrench]

I, for one, do NOT feel the welding of a crank is a FRANKENSTEIN fix.  For now.... it is the ONLY fix available.

One does NOT need to balance and have a timken for a good running engine for over 100/100, but one DOES need the crank to stay stable.

It is what it is.  Mine shifted, on a Stage 2 bike, at 18k.  09SG. And..... I'm older than dirt, too.

SO if the crank is shifted, how are they fixing the crank.. or are you saying that if the crank is some what true to start with weld it?? 

[wurk_truk]

I'm saying... like we ALL know... these cranks are junk and need trued and welded.  I just went overboard and had to spend more $$$ than it REALLY needed.

The OP says HE feels it is a frankenstein fix... so be it... but it is the ONLY fix we have presently available short of an S&S crank with steel plug in it...  a 'true and weld' on the crank will give butt loads of piece of mind.

I am presently advising :  have Randy weld the crank... even if it is NOW straight.  If a bigger build is involved... have it balanced at RR, falicon or hobans, too.

I have NO... let me repeat... NO faith in the now standard MOCO crank as it is sold and installed in our bikes.  If my old 50hp Stage2 bike could twist one .008....  what does that REALLY say about MOCO cranks?

The places I have named can true and weld a crank that is like .015 bent and under.

I had R&R rebuild a stock crank, balance it, install new rods, etc.  It now has .0002 runout!

120Rs are all the rage nowadays.  I 'want' one too.  But it goes back to the crank for me.  I have a truly marvelous crank right now...  I have heads with 1.9 valves and decent porting.  I see a 117 in my future for half the price of a 120R.... all because I do NOT want to start over with that stroker crank unwelded.

[Tattoo]

Hoban is a respected crankshaft repair company. They weld, true, replace the pin with a slightly OS pin (more press) and install a plug. They guarantee what they sell. They also are very proud to offer brand new CVO and 96" cranks that have this rework and guarantee them. They also replace the rods with much more robust units.

When I googled Hoban it said that Darkhorse is a division of Hoban brothers. Is this the same company that you are talking about?

Yes, it is the same company We use them all the time with great results.

[sportygordy]

So what is the best way to check run-out??? checking at the cam side sufficient? or checking on a true table?? Also,, truing and welding is pretty much plug and play isn't it?? I mean, you true and you weld, pretty much straight forward provided you have the equipment to do so.. Just curious why some folks say there are only handful out that can do it.. Just being pretty damn curious.. this crank stuff is making me cranky 

[wurk_truk]

On a twin cam... crank run out is checked while crank is in the cases.  Remove the comp and check BOTH sides.  Truing stand is NOT to be used here.

There IS only a few I would trust.  Folks that do this for a living.... welding cranks... NOT some Joe welder.  I have seen the welds BREAK when prep isn't correct.

Check out this link.  Download the PDF and play the embedded videos.

http://www.box.net/shared/o4at3m86o6

As an aside... I tune with a TTS AND a TS2 with WEGO.

[joelp34252]

joelp34252,  .005 might be feasible with the rest of your post.  .050 no way,  oil pump failure for one.  Tattoo?  Rick

Ha Ha Ha  .005 That is really funny. Is not the oem spec over twice that. I have ridden with a lot of different bikes and have never once seen one quit  from crank run out,or low oil pressure.  Have seen camplates hogged out from pinion wobble but no sign of trouble from the drivers seat.  Would still go another ten years.  I bet 95 percent of the replaced cranks showed no sign of a problem until they were measured. My take is ride the thing and if it quits,fix it. It is very rare for them to quit.
If this is your hobby,and you like wrenching, that is something else.

Joel 2001 FLHT

[05FLHTC]

Here's the answer
http://www.harley-oaklawn.com/

[Coyote]

I, for one, do NOT feel the welding of a crank is a FRANKENSTEIN fix.  For now.... it is the ONLY fix available.

You didn't see how mine was welded. 



[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[TweekmyTwin]

You forgot to mention they ( no names ) beat the "Potty mouth" out of it to true and balance it.
Jim

[bigpete1]

I, for one, do NOT feel the welding of a crank is a FRANKENSTEIN fix.  For now.... it is the ONLY fix available.

You didn't see how mine was welded. 

that does look like frankenstein was blind trying to strike an arch half way around ,hope you were not over charged for that ,pete

[Sonny S.]

You forgot to mention they ( no names ) beat the "Potty mouth" out of it to true and balance it.
Jim

Any initials ?? 

[Coyote]

You forgot to mention they ( no names ) beat the "Potty mouth" out of it to true and balance it.
Jim

They didn't beat it enough based on my vibration. 

You forgot to mention they ( no names ) beat the "Potty mouth" out of it to true and balance it.
Jim

Any initials ?? 

A custom bike shop in Woodland CA used a well known machine shop that does cranks and headwork in Rancho Cordova (BC something... can't remember. )
RC Cycles  showed me the crank when they split the cases to fix my pulled out studs.

[RevFastEddy]

WOW thats a weld....   I had Falacon and Axtel weld cranks for me.. they made 2 welds each 90d of arch opposite each other.  They did not warp the crank or have to beat the heck out of it after.....

[Sonny S.]

>>Rancho Cordova (BC something... can't remember. )<<

BC Gerolamy ? 

[bigpete1]

if they have to beat the snot out of it after welded it wil break because was not even close to true when welded ,thanks pete